C32 Custom Intake
12-05-2009, 09:28 AM
#76
Lemme ask you this? Are those stock numbers before the Jerry Tune??? It wasn't clear to me if you did BOTh the Intake set-up and the jerry Tune at the same time or was the tune done before the intake and you consider that stock??? Thats a strong 'stock" car if there were No (meaning 0 mods ) when you did that dyno run. I consider a tune a mod, even if its one we don't see.
12-05-2009, 08:53 PM
#77
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350z
Lemme ask you this? Are those stock numbers before the Jerry Tune??? It wasn't clear to me if you did BOTh the Intake set-up and the jerry Tune at the same time or was the tune done before the intake and you consider that stock??? Thats a strong 'stock" car if there were No (meaning 0 mods ) when you did that dyno run. I consider a tune a mod, even if its one we don't see.
I think it's pretty obvious... he had the LET 185mm pulley, LET tune, NGK plugs, and 8.5mm wires before the dyno. He ran the dyno twice w/ the "stock intake" and twice w/ the "custom intake" I think the responces on this thread are so ridiculous. It's obvious gt4awd was just dynoin his car for the hell of it... not to try and prove his intake was so mighty. I hope gt4awd's intake system proves to be worthy when complete. Plus whats the worst that happens... he returns the filters haha.
12-05-2009, 08:59 PM
#78
I think it's pretty obvious... he had the LET 185mm pulley, LET tune, NGK plugs, and 8.5mm wires before the dyno. He ran the dyno twice w/ the "stock intake" and twice w/ the "custom intake" I think the responces on this thread are so ridiculous. It's obvious gt4awd was just dynoin his car for the hell of it... not to try and prove his intake was so mighty. I hope gt4awd's intake system proves to be worthy when complete. Plus whats the worst that happens... he returns the filters haha.
people are giving him constructive honest, feedback.
it isnt exactly "pretty obvious"....a car with 185 pulley and tune, should be dynoing MUCH MUCH MUCH more than 305whp....please don't post if you arent familiar with the car and different setups
thanks
Last edited by jturkel; 12-05-2009 at 09:02 PM.
12-05-2009, 10:20 PM
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350z
I do happen to know gt4awd, and have worked along side him with this c32 and his previous c230K. Im not trying to insult anyone. One this dynocom dyno had a built in program to adjust the readings to SAE standards. I am not certain if your dyno results were comformed to these standards. Had the conversion not been applied to gt4awd's numbers he would have been significantly higher. Just a little food for thought. This is a subject hardly ever brought up so please feel free to express your thoughts and opinions.
Last edited by nizmott; 12-06-2009 at 12:48 AM.
12-06-2009, 01:42 AM
#80
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I do happen to know gt4awd, and have worked along side him with this c32 and his previous c230K. Im not trying to insult anyone. One this dynocom dyno had a built in program to adjust the readings to SAE standards. I am not certain if your dyno results were comformed to these standards. Had the conversion not been applied to gt4awd's numbers he would have been significantly higher. Just a little food for thought. This is a subject hardly ever brought up so please feel free to express your thoughts and opinions.
12-06-2009, 03:04 AM
#81
I think the touchy-ness is due to the "I think it's pretty obvious... he had the LET 185mm pulley, LET tune, NGK plugs, and 8.5mm wires before the dyno." comment. For all of us that have experience with C32's with 185's, we know that typically the dyno numbers are north of 340 RWHP. That's why it's not obvious to us. One reason his numbers may not be as high is the lack of an upgraded Heat exchanger. Typically a stock HE cannot handle the extra heat a 185mm makes.
12-06-2009, 03:48 AM
#82
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03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
agreed, the heat exchanger makes a big difference. My car stock dyno 250whp (suffering from really bad heat soak) on a dynojet with the stock heat exchanger and failing intercooler pump.
Code3 heat exchanger, johnson pump, code3 sc and power chip...i dynoed 326whp. SAE corrected ratings, doesnt really cause you to lose too much hp. I think my SAE corrected number was 319whp or something.
Heat soak should be the first thing addressed on these cars.
Code3 heat exchanger, johnson pump, code3 sc and power chip...i dynoed 326whp. SAE corrected ratings, doesnt really cause you to lose too much hp. I think my SAE corrected number was 319whp or something.
Heat soak should be the first thing addressed on these cars.
12-06-2009, 04:32 AM
#83
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I think the touchy-ness is due to the "I think it's pretty obvious... he had the LET 185mm pulley, LET tune, NGK plugs, and 8.5mm wires before the dyno." comment.
Why is everyone looking at the HP, and ignoring the TQ?I'm sure my IAT did cause some loss of power, and I do plan on several cooling mods here soon. Here's what I find interesting... With the stock airboxes installed I dyno'ed right around 360ft/lbs of torque to the wheels. Jturkel had very similar torque readings on his dyno run. Then with the custom intake I gained nearly 20 torque. Now, why would I come out with a reading that has so much more torque than horsepower?
Wouldn't it be fair to say the torque readings are accurate being as how they match up with jturkel's dyno? Again, why the difference in horsepower though? Could it have been how the shop owner calibrated his dyno? People probably overlooked when I mentioned this, but he doesn't have a normal dynocom. He doesn't have it set to show high numbers. Remember this guy even called out a 340/380 run as inaccurate readings... I'm also still wondering if being in 4th compared to 3rd impacts horsepower numbers.
12-06-2009, 04:40 AM
#84
He really wasn't trying to be rude, but can you see a stock c32 dyno 360wtq? Why is everyone looking at the HP, and ignoring the TQ?
I'm sure my IAT did cause some loss of power, and I do plan on several cooling mods here soon. Here's what I find interesting... With the stock airboxes installed I dyno'ed right around 360ft/lbs of torque to the wheels. Jturkel had very similar torque readings on his dyno run. Then with the custom intake I gained nearly 20 torque. Now, why would I come out with a reading that has so much more torque than horsepower?
Wouldn't it be fair to say the torque readings are accurate being as how they match up with jturkel's dyno? Again, why the difference in horsepower though? Could it have been how the shop owner calibrated his dyno? People probably overlooked when I mentioned this, but he doesn't have a normal dynocom. He doesn't have it set to show high numbers. Remember this guy even called out a 340/380 run as inaccurate readings... I'm also still wondering if being in 4th compared to 3rd impacts horsepower numbers.
Why is everyone looking at the HP, and ignoring the TQ?I'm sure my IAT did cause some loss of power, and I do plan on several cooling mods here soon. Here's what I find interesting... With the stock airboxes installed I dyno'ed right around 360ft/lbs of torque to the wheels. Jturkel had very similar torque readings on his dyno run. Then with the custom intake I gained nearly 20 torque. Now, why would I come out with a reading that has so much more torque than horsepower?
Wouldn't it be fair to say the torque readings are accurate being as how they match up with jturkel's dyno? Again, why the difference in horsepower though? Could it have been how the shop owner calibrated his dyno? People probably overlooked when I mentioned this, but he doesn't have a normal dynocom. He doesn't have it set to show high numbers. Remember this guy even called out a 340/380 run as inaccurate readings... I'm also still wondering if being in 4th compared to 3rd impacts horsepower numbers.
the lack of horsepower probably reflects the relatively low boost levels you are seeing because of higher IATs top end and the car pulling timing.
as far as comparing one car to another, we all know you cant do that. different dyno, different temp, different DA, different octane ( i run 91 ), different tune....perhaps different gap on plugs....idk....i have a relatively new supercharger. too many variables to compare. even between the same type of dyno, there are discrepancies. one dyno dynamics may read higher or lower than another dynamics. thats why it is nice to have a baseline dyno to see where you started....so regardless of how high or low the dyno reads, you know how much power you have gained (or even lost)....b/c that is what is important...the DELTA.
and for 3rd versus 4th gear dyno pulls, you're probably best off asking Hooley, Jake, or Jerry. IIRC, silverbulletamg said he hasnt noticed a difference .
finish your intake like i mentioned before and lets see what happens. and i would strongly recommend getting an upgraded heat exchanger. i wasnt even aware you didnt have one....all 185 owners have one....its basically a must. and if/when you get one, re-dyno and see what happens. we may get a better picture then as to how accurate the numbers may or may not be
12-06-2009, 05:00 AM
#85
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the lack of horsepower probably reflects the relatively low boost levels you are seeing because of higher IATs top end and the car pulling timing.
as far as comparing one car to another, we all know you cant do that. different dyno, different temp, different DA, different octane ( i run 91 ), different tune....perhaps different gap on plugs....idk....i have a relatively new supercharger. too many variables to compare. even between the same type of dyno, there are discrepancies. one dyno dynamics may read higher or lower than another dynamics. thats why it is nice to have a baseline dyno to see where you started....so regardless of how high or low the dyno reads, you know how much power you have gained (or even lost)....b/c that is what is important...the DELTA.
and for 3rd versus 4th gear dyno pulls, you're probably best off asking Hooley, Jake, or Jerry. IIRC, silverbulletamg said he hasnt noticed a difference .
finish your intake like i mentioned before and lets see what happens. and i would strongly recommend getting an upgraded heat exchanger. i wasnt even aware you didnt have one....all 185 owners have one....its basically a must. and if/when you get one, re-dyno and see what happens. we may get a better picture then as to how accurate the numbers may or may not be
12-06-2009, 06:59 AM
#86
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03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
its basically the age old debate of short ram versus cold air. You gained tq because the air from your intake is traveling into the intake at a faster rate then the stock boxes since the filters are by the throttle body and air doesn't have to travel from the radiator support. So the air is traveling a shorter distance before it goes into the engine.
Your not gaining as much power on the high end because the air your taking in is less dense then the air from the stock boxes coming from the radiator support since its hot air. Basically the volume of air molecules your taking it is overall less, so the engine is starving for air at the top end.
The sl55 intake creates tq and hp since the air is coming in is cold and is also being forced in by the movment of the car. The box formation of the intake creates tq. Hence why all oem's use box style air boxes because it creates low end tq.
Usually filter on a stick setups creates more hp but lost low end tq.
In short, the oem setup is the best compromise between short ram and cai style intakes.
Your not gaining as much power on the high end because the air your taking in is less dense then the air from the stock boxes coming from the radiator support since its hot air. Basically the volume of air molecules your taking it is overall less, so the engine is starving for air at the top end.
The sl55 intake creates tq and hp since the air is coming in is cold and is also being forced in by the movment of the car. The box formation of the intake creates tq. Hence why all oem's use box style air boxes because it creates low end tq.
Usually filter on a stick setups creates more hp but lost low end tq.
In short, the oem setup is the best compromise between short ram and cai style intakes.
12-06-2009, 07:02 AM
#87
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03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
if your really hard core...you can mod your hood to form a cowl or something smilar to a wrx and have the cold air filter from the hood vent into the air filters at the throttle body.
12-06-2009, 09:32 AM
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2002 C32 AMG, 2013 GLK 350/4, 2015 E63S AMG Wagon
[QUOTE=gt4awd;3839569]I see what you're saying, but I have a boost gauge that reads 19-20PSI WOT at redline. Isn't that around the max boost you are seeing with your dynodash? Who recorded 22+PSI with the 185MM, or anything over 20 for that matter?QUOTE]
I see 20 PSI with my 181mm pulley and the cooling mods. With 185mm you should see up to 22 PSI.
I see 20 PSI with my 181mm pulley and the cooling mods. With 185mm you should see up to 22 PSI.
12-06-2009, 10:04 AM
#91
Most of us post our mods when discussing dyno #s so we have a reference point at which to view said numbers?? My mods are in my sig.
12-06-2009, 10:37 AM
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So , to answer my question, DO you have a 185, LET TUNE, plugs , wires (NO HE) and did you have these before the intake mod?? Its not clear to me if you have these mods??? Your friend says you do!!! That should have been disclosed when you started the thread since I was thinking this was a "stock" C32 until I saw the "stock" before intake numbers for HP and Torque???
Most of us post our mods when discussing dyno #s so we have a reference point at which to view said numbers?? My mods are in my sig.
Most of us post our mods when discussing dyno #s so we have a reference point at which to view said numbers?? My mods are in my sig.
Yes, i have a EC 185 crank pulley with a 70mm sc pulley, code3 intercooler, code3 heat exchanger, johnson pump, LET tune, with code3 intake mod.
I had a powerchip tune before and i misfired and overboosted at 120mph in mexico in 45 degree weather. The LET tune seem to fix it.
12-06-2009, 11:05 AM
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i would like to see this as well as your thoughts reflect my sentiments exactly.
i made 350whp, 359wtq on 91 octane, 80 degrees outside IIRC (a bit warmer than 35 either way lol). no headers. but yes with a heat exchanger.
fact. the delta is what is important here. it is impossible to compare different cars on different dynos under different conditions, etc...
what was the temperature in the room or on the dyno? perhaps some of that 35 degree air was blowing in?
idk.....i really think that the filters need to be heat wrapped and the intake needs to supply more direct flow of air to the filters. thats obviously IMO.
as far as airflow, if you look at your dyno, you actually lose power as you approach redline. the hp line tapers downwards....and i'd bet that is a combination of timing being pulled because of high IATs and/or insufficient air flow (perhaps because of not having a direct flow of air to the filters).
i can say that with my 55 setup, mine does not taper off...and i was suffering some heat problems on the dyno.
i think with heat wrap and a more direct air flow, this could be a very effective, consistent, and money-smart setup.
i made 350whp, 359wtq on 91 octane, 80 degrees outside IIRC (a bit warmer than 35 either way lol). no headers. but yes with a heat exchanger.
fact. the delta is what is important here. it is impossible to compare different cars on different dynos under different conditions, etc...
what was the temperature in the room or on the dyno? perhaps some of that 35 degree air was blowing in?
idk.....i really think that the filters need to be heat wrapped and the intake needs to supply more direct flow of air to the filters. thats obviously IMO. as far as airflow, if you look at your dyno, you actually lose power as you approach redline. the hp line tapers downwards....and i'd bet that is a combination of timing being pulled because of high IATs and/or insufficient air flow (perhaps because of not having a direct flow of air to the filters).
i can say that with my 55 setup, mine does not taper off...and i was suffering some heat problems on the dyno.
i think with heat wrap and a more direct air flow, this could be a very effective, consistent, and money-smart setup.
12-06-2009, 02:32 PM
#94
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I see what you're saying, but I have a boost gauge that reads 19-20PSI WOT at redline. Isn't that around the max boost you are seeing with your dynodash? Who recorded 22+PSI with the 185MM, or anything over 20 for that matter?
I'll ask the shop owner, but I doubt it does. Next time I'll get the runs done in 3rd...
I'll ask the shop owner, but I doubt it does. Next time I'll get the runs done in 3rd...
Dyno runs should be done in 3rd gear. 4th gear runs will add more load to your runs, which help in tuning, but not raw numbers.
12-06-2009, 02:43 PM
#95
Jturkel and I are running Eurocharged headers which effectively lower our boost to about 20PSI. Prior to that, I was hitting 22PSI and sometimes getting overboost CEL's.
Dyno runs should be done in 3rd gear. 4th gear runs will add more load to your runs, which help in tuning, but not raw numbers.
Dyno runs should be done in 3rd gear. 4th gear runs will add more load to your runs, which help in tuning, but not raw numbers.
12-06-2009, 07:20 PM
#96
So , to answer my question, DO you have a 185, LET TUNE, plugs , wires (NO HE) and did you have these before the intake mod?? Its not clear to me if you have these mods??? Your friend says you do!!! That should have been disclosed when you started the thread since I was thinking this was a "stock" C32 until I saw the "stock" before intake numbers for HP and Torque???
Most of us post our mods when discussing dyno #s so we have a reference point at which to view said numbers?? My mods are in my sig.
Most of us post our mods when discussing dyno #s so we have a reference point at which to view said numbers?? My mods are in my sig.
I am wondering what HE has?? Full disclosure on dyno runs is nice
12-06-2009, 07:49 PM
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12-06-2009, 08:40 PM
#98
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Most of us post our mods when discussing dyno #s so we have a reference point at which to view said numbers?? My mods are in my sig.
12-06-2009, 09:05 PM
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2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
yes. my headers have lowered my boost levels. however, i will not see as high as boost levels as other members because i run 91 octane and have a less aggressive LET tune because of that. however, i did see 20.7 psi the other night WITH headers despite the less aggressive tune and 91 octane
+1 Good eye... they've been there for the duration of this thread, for the keen-eyed observers.
