RLx02

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8kjH...eature=channel

(Thanks to BeltfedBob)



64-70 Degrees F
29.70 in-Hg
30-40% Humidity
Dynojet Model 424xLC2
SAE Correction Factor and Smoothing 5

The blue line is when I had k&n filters, deleted secondaries and unknowingly, a LET tune. So we can see that I gained 23hp and 22 ft/pounds of torque at the wheels. The red line is after the Kleemann headers and ECU. You can see that the Kleemann tune runs a little more lean than the LET but is the same as the LET near red line.

I am actually slightly disappointed in the gains from the kleemann headers and ECU. Although it appears I already had a LET tune, I would think that the headers would make slightly more than 23hp.

s4avt ran his '03 w209 CLK55 stock with filters and all OEM cats and pulled a healthy 305 RWHP or 372 crank hp (10hp gain from stock). He has also ordered the kleemann headers/ecu but does not have them installed. Thus, we can theorize that from kleemann's suggested 40-45 crank hp gain he should be at 410-415hp crank WITH his secondaries still in place.

So, that leaves me with two questions; does the secondary resonator delete only free up some hp when you have stock headers and primaries on? Or is kleeman's suggested gain of 40-45hp rated too high?


As for further modding...I may be finished with the c55 considering anything after this point would require internal work or to go forced induction. I may buy a crank pulley to put more RWHP down and maybe go true dual exhaust with an x-pipe but I can't really imagine that it would have a big gain over what I have going on now. I'm even tempted to put 300cel sport cats on to smoothen the sound.

Time to get a c63 or a sl55 i guess...

s4avt

SL55 : )

TemjinX2

i don't see why your disappointed. Your numbers seem right on what it should be. A tune should net you 15-20whp and headers should net you 15-20whp. So its believable you can get 45hp to the crank over stock.

Since you already has a LET tune, your baseline is a lot higher then it should be.

333whp is around 416hp to the crank assuming a 20% drive train loss since it rwd and a automatic.

RLx02

We've been going off of 18% this whole time so 337 = 410hp...I just figured though by going catless I would be picking up even more power.

TemjinX2

eh i go by 20% since its rwd and you lost more power on a auto. Fwd manuals usually dyno at a 15% drive train loss on a dynojet. You should just ask hooleyboy or his thread. He pretty much did everything you can on a c55 before the SC.

But yeah, its difficult get huge gains on a NA car for cheap. It usually requires greater sums of money compared to FI.

c32AMG-DTM

Agree with both of you, in some respects. While you can't say for certain, it's reasonable to presume you should deduct ~15whp for the LET tune from your prior run to get an idea of a more likely "stock, except filters, and minor exhaust work" baseline proxy. Putting you right at 300 whp, which AFAIK is in line with a stock or minorly modded C55 result on a DJ. A +38 whp gain from that would be ~46 bhp; right in line with Kleemann's estimate.

FWIW, I've also always heard (and used) 18% for DJ to crank conversions for our vehicles... but many also just use 20%. No biggie, as long as you're consistent.

Quicktwinturbo

Looks just about right imo.. I think hooley said by removin 2nd cats, it will free up like 10 rwhp or something..

AMS Performance

2nd cat removal = 13HP / 19TQ (on DD dyno)
High flow 2nd cat = 10HP / 12TQ (on DD dyno).

AMG Dynojet loss % = 18%
AMG DD dyno loss % = 21%
(this was tested on multiple stock amgs going directly from dyno to dyno, those are the most accurate numbers)

With that said, it appears the kleemann tune is actually richer not leaner, the LET tune appeared to be leaner. There is also debate as to whether these AMGs like no cats at all, and from numerous testimonials those who have done have usually not been impressed. These cars need a cat of some kind to run well, whether its primaries or secondaries is a different debate all together. Putting on some 300-cell metal core cats will definitely smoothen/clean out the sound quite a bit and it may give you the necessary backpressure you are looking for.

RLx02

Thats where i'm standing at is whether or not it has sufficient back pressure now that the aftermarket headers are on. I do believe that removing at least one set of cats with factory exhaust manifolds does free up some power, but with headers and zero cats one can argue that theres now, not enough back pressure since its the 5.4 n/a motor rather than the kompressor.

Mark.D

A little OT, but I notice you are located in Seattle and have no front plate... do you drive this car daily? Any trouble with the 5-0 for no plate?

RLx02

shhhh

I try not to drive it as my daily to keep my miles off but recently as I've been doing some maintanance with the jeep it has been the last few weeks. Anyways , nope, no issues with the 5-0. In fact, i bought it used without the front plate

suicidal4life

I asked this same question to several of the owners there that day and not one of them reported having any problems with LEO's.

suicidal4life

One thing I find interesting is that my 4.3 picked up roughly the same amount of HP with Kleemann headers as your 5.5 did. Your car stock is 362 and mine is 275 so thats 83 HP difference. Your recent dyno is 337 and mine was 249 (88 Difference) I would have figured the larger engine would have had a bit more gain (or actually that my car would have had less gain) I'm currently running unmodified Kleemann downpipes, 200 cel cats where the secondaries would be, stock res, stock mufflers. Also my headers are swain coated and I also have Evo underdrive pulleys which might explain why our gains are closer then I thought they would be.

s4avt

I got a ticket once, they gave me ticket with my parking ticket.

so I don't think you can really get pulled over but you def. can get a ticket

suicidal4life

I guess I should have talked to you. I asked 4-5 guys about it and then quit asking.

RLx02

I think the pullies are what did it. I know they don't create more power per say, but just allow more hp to be put down to the rear wheels. I am definitely looking into pulleys now as basically my last mod now.

wawy

RLX02 - so now that you've really opened up your exhaust this much and made it extremly free flowing would you say that you've noticed any loss of low rpm torque/power (that initial kick in the pants feel)? I realize the dyno doesen't really reveal any but just asking. That has always been a concern for me...

RLx02

Not at all. The primary difference is that it "feels" as if i have much more top end torque but with the primary cats gone the engine is much more response and builds revs faster as well. Punching it onto almost any onramp (in mexico) I can usually hit about 100 mph before merging!

alumar

Thats great man... your within a 100hp from a boosted C55 ... so your getting a damn good return for N/A Dyno numbers!

my last dyno @ 440rwhp - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZkgD64UoME

Did you get a video?

TruTaing

Time for an intake + larger throttle body?

alumar

ah great, i see the video on the OP now.

Amazing on the sound difference ... I have the high flow cats and kleemann headers also but the pitch is different between ours.

RLx02

Actually, I got pulled over, jeez, 10 years ago when I had a honda accord and didn't have a front plate on. I thought he pulled me over for speeding but luckily it was for the plate.

Fortunately for me I had it in my trunk and I told him the bracket broke off and I was trying to buy a new one. He let me off and told me to get a new one soon...

RLx02

I think it has to do with the having sport cats vs no cats. The C63's without cats had a much higher pitch, racier sound vs the ones with sport cats. The video does not justice as to how loud the exhaust really is in person...inside its ok and isn't too loud but if I have my windows down and I'm going through a tunnel or underpass I can tell that its really, really loud lol. My friend said he heard me from about 4 blocks away at WOT but at idle and cruising its still quiet!

I would if they didnt cost 2,000 dollars each! 4k for probably about 25-30hp? The c63 guys are paying a little over a grand and are getting another 50hp or so for their kleemann k2 tune (since the c63 motor is a detuned sl/cl/cls/e motor.

I wonder if anyone has ever dremeled out their throttle body...maybe I'll do some experimenting

Phenolic spacers anyone?

NitrogenBalance

I hope your kidding.

What exactly do you expect for power out of this car without boost? Plenty of 5.5L build examples here that should sum up what you'll end up with.

TruTaing

Chat w/ me later - I think there are some local solutions