macbryanie

I have passed over 200kms (130,000 miles) on the clock. Had some timing chain rattle develop over the last month and replaced the tensioner (a damn bolt: friggin' bolts drive me nuts ) to fix it up (I was expecting much worse).The chain was sitting dead middle of the teeth however over ten years most likely stretched some. Replacing a new chain would be a no no without replacing the sprockets etc (new shoes on worn feet etc). Going down this road it begins a case of basically rebuilding the engine as 32 engines are non exsistent in Australia. The car is pulling solid without freaky noises. It gets fresh oil (M1) regularly and attention. The way I see it ; I am over half way life in the engine? I drive it daily now (2hours total) and enjoy the spirited runs home. Is this an overreaction of preventative maintenance advised by my indie or sound advise that I should be preparing for?

testknight

Personally, I think the Indie shop you are working with is looking to generate revenue (shops consider it ethical to suggest way more work than needed to cover all evenentualities...in truth I think they are lying to you as I'll bet 75% of the time if they were wrenching on their own cars they'd just fix what they know is really needed).

I'd like to hear more about this...so you replaced a tensioner and the noise went away? If no noise, you may well be ok, so I'm not sure what you are really asking here. ..that all said, my general thoughts:

- how many tensioners on this vehicle? (I've done this on DOHC applications, twice...once on a SOHC in mid 90s)...if more than one you should have replaced all and really the chain as well while there (if they didn't suggest this initially, go to another shop)

-I'd like to hear why they think the sprockets needs replaced. I'd have asked them to send me an image of the teeth...are they really worn down?? (I doubt its enough) I'll bet you don't need to replace them.

-if you really need to replace sprockets (and please convince me why) then replace them...once you are that far in (hell timing chains off already), its really not that much more work IMO.

- Why do you think you need a whole engine rebuild? Did they say this to you? ANy other evidence to suggest why? If you are concerned, then get a compression test (not that expensive) and see if you want to think about it...just note...even if you do an engine rebuild, you'll want to replace the timing chain and tensioners anyway...

Right now...unless you're leaving something out...the more I type and think, I'm getting more an more irritated by this shop. This is why in the last 20 years (including 5 engine rebuilds/swaps) I've only used an indie on a rare occassion (usually a nothing job on a very cold winter day).

testknight

Let me be clear and summarize...unless I'm not getting all the info...you should have replaced all tensioners and chain when you got the one replaced (the fact that you didn't isn't necessarily a deal breaker though, its very possible you fixed the true offending issues there and are now good to go for a while). I don't beleive you need to concern yourself about the sprockets nor the engine at this point.

That said....you got the tensioner replaced...are there any other symptoms at all right now? As of now the least you need to do is nothing (good chance of it)...the most I see needing done is the chain and any other tensioners not recently replaced (less chance of it). Engine rebuild..nope (unless you're not telling me something)

tw2

I would hold off for the time being. The car runs great, leave it at that. A rebuilt engine is great but if it still pulls and is reliable with no signs of dying then I would leave it as it is.

I am usually very aggressive with my car maintenance. I usually replace a whole pile of crap when I get a new car. None of it ever seems to make a difference to anything, just makes me feel better. A rebuild is only for when you have a tired engine low on compression whether it is the rings, head gasket etc and you will be down on power or there will be oil, coolant mixing or coming out somewhere.

macbryanie

Awesome awesome: thank you for the feedback. Reading my first post I didnt say that the problem is fixed. Sorry; was at work posting and not working...Anyway;
The tensioner -only one (bolt with oil pressured spring inside etc) was replaced and cleared it all up (seems tensioner bolt was failing). The guides and sprockets looked all good and the chain on dead middle of the teeth. I ordered a tensioner kit for approx $300 delivered from the US which included all guides chain,master link and tensioner (bolt) as opposed to $250 for the tensioner bolt here in AU. Armed with these parts incase. After pulling the valve covers etc and inspecting all looked good and by simply removing the alternator replaced the tensioner and the chain rattle is all cleared up. What my indie was saying was if you replace the chain (you can cut it and feed it through- engine in) but you should also change the guides and sprockets (this is engine out) [-i have the parts already]therefore if going down that path rebuild it and be done with it (extend the life of the engine all the way).
I will leave the engine be.

macbryanie

Cheers Tw2 I have seen before how to multi quote posts before but cant find it a moment: I agree; "If it an't broke dont fix it"
Car pulls hard I ate up some on the way home today and also played with a bike. Engine has full **** no doubt.

macbryanie

I did a fair bit of reasearch on the subject due to "Glyn M Ruck" indeepth posts and clear knowledge on the subject. In short the chain will stretch abit but not break(very rare) the bolt does go (like mine), if it fixes then its fixed, if not then could be a whole different story. That was major concern: I was reading up until the parts came from the US (car was grounded as I didnt want to damage anything) and over the course of the week prepared for the worst. Now that it isnt: I want to prevent it hense the stange first post lol. Anyway, turning a new page in the book of the 32. Cheers again for the feedback testknight n tw2.
If it breaks will fix, and will continue to granny it to work and drive like a crazy man on the way home.

benzmodz

There are plenty of C32 engines in Australia. Just some of them happen to be in a Chrysler that's all.

As far as getting the engine done. By the time you would change the chain at a normal workshop, a hard-core engine specialist would have the engine out, the bearings in, the gaskets in, the head redone and the pistons measured and honed and the crankshaft rebalanced.

Just mucking around with a chain is not doing much at all. That's the easy part.

Start ordering in a rebuild kit and see if you can get the engine totally redone.

macbryanie

PM sent, Cheers.

testknight

I really doubt you need to do all this (engine/valvetrain rebuild)...I guess if you are really considering this at least have compression tested, and then possibly get a leakdown test. If it looks fine, then don't bother...with due respect to modbenz, I just think its very much overboard at this point

If money is no object and you want to spend 3x+ than just a timing chain replacement (assuming it really does need engine removed, it may well, don't know) as well as 1/2 or more of the cars overall total value, then knock yourself out (this all assumes you aren't doing the work yourself).

Your bottom end probably has years left on it (with good maintenance). One can attempt to argue that since the engine needs pulled you "may as well" rebuild everything.,..that makes little sense to me..the labor to pull and put an engine back in is a very small part of an overall rebuild by a shop (hell I don't even have a lift and could have an engine in and out on a very long saturday...a shop better be able to do it much quicker).

Worst case rebuild the engine when it finally does go in future (likely years from now)...you'll have gotten a lot more miles which will more than compensate you to cost of the engine removal replacement labor you are thinking to leverage...which isn't much. (make sense??)

macbryanie

Modbenz gave me (pm - chat)some really good leads and advise. Thanking you,
I am going to let the engine run as it is for now as money is always an issue. The tensioner bolt fixed up the chain slack. Its a tricky one this and inevitable to do sometime if keeping the 32 for many years to come: its all about the timing/cost and prediction.

tw2

Its always good to not spend unnecesarily on cars. You never know when you might want to change onto something else, like me looking at 08 sti's and 350z's today for fun.

benzmodz

What do you mean overboard. Where did I mention ceramic coated pistons, lower tension rings, diamond honing or forged racing rods.

Taking an engine out and changing all if the major consumables is really trivial. If we want to go overboard we can start talking about getting some help from Harrop and boosting this 32 to some insane level. Lining the cylinders with racing parts and installing all kinds of pressure management systems.

In many ways there is more life in a used engine than a new one. I recall that In the 80s turbo era in F1 they used 100% standard BMW engine blocks from road cars to produce 1500 BHP. They kept them in the open air and pardon me for saying it. They would **** on the metal.

A good engine block is a proven engine block. High miles is actually a good thing. It means it was a good engine.

testknight

sure ok