NitrogenBalance

What happened orginally was a W208 5.5L that took two days to install and turned into a blue smoke machine, assuming it was bad rings or something. I should have know for being such a deal at $2000, although I was assured perfect running. I'm only out labor at this point but it was alot of labor...In the mean time I've got it back out and purchased an 02' E500 5.0L with 30K on it and will be dropping that in. I was only able to get the bad 5.5L taken out with what I had for time last month. Car is in two feet of snow right now with an empty engine bay. If I get some extra $ it will go into to the garage otherwise it will wait till spring. I'm actually happy with the 5.0L at this point due to the low milage and warrenty. I may just go custom F/I again on this block with the 2K I have from the bad motor refund....oh what a fun road it has been

ECTurboGSX

You gonna mess with using the AMG cams from your 4.3 or just leave it as is?

NitrogenBalance

I've thought about it, I have the C43 heads off as I was going to sell them in hopes someone would P&P them. My first goal is to get this car back on the road as its been crazy how long I haven't driven it. I have been curious as to what they might do on the 5.0L as most of the AMG developed power is on the top end of the 4.3L from what I gather. The motor is also from a CL and not an E as stated. I realize A+B doesn't always equal C when playing with these motors so there may be other variables as to why this may or may not make a difference. However, since most of the work is in the heads and cams maybe since MB got an additional 27hp out of the 4.3L as a bolt on the 5.0L may benefit similar? My only question on this would be wether to retain the 4.3 casting and swap the heads or just swap the cams out. I think the AMG heads may have had slight work to the comb or exh chambers? It would be a nice upgrade and use of leftover parts on my end also.

ECTurboGSX

Yeah, my understanding was they did some minor hand work on the head, nothing too big. Just depends how much hassle you want to undertake. Good luck.

austinholloman

The extra 39TQ will be a very nice in our smaller car. The 5.0 shows some pretty amazing gains with bolt ons and FI! Keep us posted on what all you have to swap in to make it work.

LantanaML320

The idea of C43 heads on a 500 is very interesting. Especially since I am running a 500 engine. What would be nice would be to raise the compression to 11:1 in the process. If you have your C43 heads off, you should have them CC'd and compare to 500 heads. You might be able to mill them to produce 11:1 but if you do this you might also have to have the intake manifold milled to match. I think the C43 and 500 engine both have 10:1 but a C43 head may have a smaller combustion chamber which would raise the compression on a 500. Sounds like a cool idea to me!

Saaboteur

I think I want to see detailed specs on the C43 cams and heads vs. '55' cams and heads.

LantanaML320

I would definitely want to see the difference in cam specs but the C43 heads might bump the compression and the 55 heads might lower compression. I would love to compare the combustion chamber volume of each head. I think 11:1 and cams would wake up a 500 engine. Stock the 500 engine has just about the same HP and torque as a 500 engine.

Saaboteur

I've been googling for about 10-15 minutes and have been unable to find detailed M113 specs. I'll try the WIS tonight. And Lantana, do you mean the stock C43 engine is about equivalent in power and torque to a stock M113 500 engine?

Saaboteur

I believe NitrogenBalance has his C43 heads off, perhaps if we all ask nicely, he can get them CC'd?

I have a 55 engine on the way. I'm curious to know if there will be any benefit to plopping on the C43 heads and cams, or if it would be a retrograde step. Hence the need for the specs.....

LantanaML320

Yes, the two engines are almost identical in HP and torque. I looked at this when I was looking at engines for my conversion. I went with the 500 engine becuase they are cheaper than a similar mileage C43. but if the C43's extra power over a 430 is in the heads and cams, then it is worth comparing these to the 500 engine to see if similar gains could be had on a 500 engine.

Saaboteur

I'm told now that there would be no benefit from a 55 taking on C43 heads and cams. I asked someone in the know, member on the forums 'rcompart', who you may know - he's been involved with some 55K Crossfire swaps, and a 55K swap into a CLS500 (or was it a 550?)

I didn't ask him about whether there would be a benefit to a 500 motor though. And I still want to look at head and cam specs. Have to hunt those down somehow.

LantanaML320

I know Rudy very well. I gave him all the information to get into business doing swaps. I agree that n/a 55 heads wouldn't do much for a C43. Maybe the cams would be good if they are different. but C43 heads and cams on a 500 engine is worth looking into. Typically, larger displacement engines will have larger combustion chambers. The C43 may have smaller combustion chambers which when put on a 500 engine would raise compression. The 500 would benefit from higher compression, bigger cams and better flowing heads. BTW, I have a few C43 parts on my car. To do the V8 swap, I used C43 exhaust manifolds, fan, fan clutch, shroud, and top radiator hose.

MarcusF

I think you'll find that the ports on a 500 head are noticeably larger than those on a 430. The same is true of both the intake and exhaust valves. The 500, 55, and 55K all use the same intake and exhaust valves. The part numbers for the heads are the same for the 500 and non-K 55.

I don’t know of anyone who’s tried it, but the C43's smaller ports and valves may slightly increase low speed intake/exhaust velocity on a 500 at the cost of reducing the top end. Naturally, that's just a guess.

Here are some M113 camshaft specs.

Saaboteur

That's all good info. I thought I had gone all over your site, but obviously I didn't see the cam specs page. So now we just need those elusive C43 cam specs....

Seems to me they could have just put the 500 into the car and wouldn't have had to throw cams and heads into the 430 engine. Maybe the name C50 just didn't have enough syllables in it...

MarcusF

This afternoon I read this thread, knew that I had posted specs in the past, and decided to put them in a web page. So no, you didn't miss it.

LantanaML320

The C43 has smaller valves and ports than a 500 engine? That would suck. I would love to see a 500 engine with 11:1 and more aggressive cams.

Btw, AMG did build a 50 for the AMG E50 but it was the earlier style engine and not a M113 engine. Anyone have the cam specs for a 500, n/a 55 and C43? With a slight mod, SLR cams can also be used.

Saaboteur

Yeah, I think there was a W210 E50 and an E60 too, but based on the M119. There was one of the latter for sale a little while ago on Benzworld.

suicidal4life

That looks familiar When I had them measured the guy set them all up at a centerline of 108° . I'm not sure if this is the installed centerline or not, You may want to add an asterisk to that effect on your site.

Saaboteur

What would the benefit (other than stating one has McLaren Mercedes kudos) of using SLR cams on an NA M113?

MarcusF

No one uses blower cams on an NA engine. They don't have enough duration to make power in the upper rev range without forced induction.

Given a choice, no one runs NA cams on a blower motor. The overlap causes a lot of reversion.

By blower motor, I mean anything with boost.

If all this sounds like a foreign language, here's a little about cam design.

Saaboteur

Eh, that's what I figured (kudos only). Back in my Saab tuning days, I mucked around with swapping NA and various years of turbo cams into my turbo motor. I can't seem to recall there being huge differences. In the end I used...stock turbo cams!

Saaboteur

Here's a link to some photos of a W124 E60

https://mbworld.org/forums/members/j...ib-albums.html

and a couple links to some photos of a W210 E60:

http://s1017.photobucket.com/home/moflo1/set/1048

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210...-pictures.html

ob1kenobi

I've personally seen moflo's car.
Kameraguy did an excellent shot on a lot of cars. He has a Bacherlor's degree in photojournalism and I believe he freelances for a major newspaper somewhere in California now.

austinholloman

How hard is this part of the engine swap? Im trying to get an idea of how much time and money this entire swap really costs. If the source car is a W210 E55, all you really need to do it add this line right? Do all of the other parts swap right in from the C43 motor? Some of you say to purchase a new MAF when doing the swap, does this need to be a new E55 MAF or can you use this C43 MAF, why or why not? Also some mention of timing chain and other parts needed also? Can some one who has done this swap put together a parts need list, ie m113 5.4, trans line, maf etc etc... Thank guys!