ProV1

shame on MB...


https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/227715-amg-horsepower-wars-over.html


where did the fanboys here get the info about "upcoming 63TT making 700+ HP..?"

360_iti

I think the 65 engine is already amazing to begin with. Maybe they decide to leave it at that and work on the handling etc as another way to improve performance. Imagine what would happen if they could figure out how to vastly improve the handling and reduce the weight of the SL65.

MB_Forever

It will really be interesting to see the sales figures of Mercedes when Audi starts selling their Twin Turbo V10 RS6 and BMW's Twin Turbo V10 M5. I'm sure Mercedes will have to step up then

dimsdale

Mercedes needs to get more competitive with the clutch.
The BMW M3 has, what, 410 HP and 295 ft-lbs torque? The Benz has more HP and MUCH MORE torque, and its still a close call between the performance of these cars.

The dual clutch transmission and its seamless shifts is something that the Benz could really use.

Gondon

NVM, why no new M3 on ebay wtf?>

jturkel

they lost most of the M3s and 135s among other cars to the watery depths of the ocean or massive damage beyond repair in a ship that overturned off of like rhode island at the dock two or so weeks ago.

speedybenz

Yes, MB's just carry too much weight. Although an E55 kompressor or the new E63 maybe slightly faster in a straight line than my normal asperated C43/55, it is not a comparision when we get to the first corner. My car weighs in at 3258 lbs with half a tank of gas and no driver and the new Mb's are around 4,000 lbs and higher. Isn't the new SL500/ 600 weigh something like 4,500 lbs. That is just disgusting. With all the technical information at MB's disposal why can't they make the new E Class or SL's, C's or anything that weighs in at 3,000 lbs.

I tell you 3,000 lbs and a good 350hp to the wheels and you are talking about one fast and FUN car to drive.

Jeff

slammer111

Link?

Quadcammer

actually, the ship experienced rough seas in the north atlantic and some of the lashings broke, causing the cars to move around in the shipping containers.

I believe 470 cars were damaged

http://www.mwerks.com/artman/publish...cle_1296.shtml

Carl Lassiter

I agree that 500bhp in sedan is more than enough. Handling should never have been ignored for as long as AMG have. However, 3000lbs is too optimistic a target weight given the desire (certainly in my case) to have good crash safety. Touching wood, to date I've never been ina crash but god forbid I don't want my car to fold like a Civic. Just strting by not making each model bigger and heavier would be a god start...

Also a TT M5 is nothing but a rumor and I'd sooner see natural aspiration kept and a slight even further improvement in tune to 550bhp, if they are ramping up the power. Many agree. A revvy engine and responsive pedals does for a good driver's car make.

spr

The main problems MB has is not the motor. MB neeeeeeds to design a chassis to run a MUCH wider rear tire offer LSD on EVERY AMG and offer an SMG tranny. Although I cannot comment on the 7g v. the 5spd. You would think that the 7g would be much better close gearing wise but dunno.

MB's are much like the older mustangs. You could have one stock stick in an LSD and Lower gearing and make it a launching machine and get all of your low times directly out of the hole like a 4 wheel drive does!!!! I mean what's the point of all that torque when you can't put it down????

deyainrdy4ds

jersey city, nj not rhode island

TopGun32

I'm okay with the currect product lines of AMG

but as mentioned before.. it will be hard to pass up Twin Turbo cars..

Bmw has a 3L (gasoline/Diesel) TT motor

and a new v8TT motor..

heck.. even ford will release a 3.5TT motor.

I like displacement.. but I need potential and better MPG. So far Direct Injection Turbo cars seems to have the right answer.

I'm not sure about the Caddy. Supercharged V8 is not going very MPG friendly.. well not in my current car. Unless the extra gear and depending how boost is applied and what RPM.. the Caddy might be out the question.

speedybenz

Well having been actively involved with the motorcycle wars and development I can see many paralells to what bikes with through in the mid 80's to mid 90's where they started with the very fast Fj1100 Yamaha and Ninja 900 Kawasaki which wieghed 550 lbs or so. But over the next 10 years and due to the competetion between manufactures the bikes got even faster but mostly they where able to build them with much stronger and stiffer frames to allow a tremendous increase in handling. By the mid to late 90's they were able to make bikes that weighed 400lbs vs. 550lbs, a 165 lb reduction and some 30 percent lighter. For reference the current 1000's weigh around 400lbs and will do the quarter mile in 9.5 sec. or so at 150 plus mph.

What I am afraid of is that the German brands will bow out of this type of competetion due to the Janapense willingness to redesign their cars with the same type of advances seen in the current crop of Superbikes. BMW as a motorcycle got left behind. It will be very intersting to see where the market goes on this, with the new Lexus LX-F? and the Nissin GTR.

Jeff

KiwiRobbie

I think you are wrong about the Germans bowing out, so far the Japs haven't really played in the power wars, I don't see the Germans being worried about anything the japs can throw at them, what will be an interesting match to the Germans will be the new Jaguar XF-R with the supercharged 5 litre motor which hits the market 2009.

Someone mentioned a twin turbo M5 I don't think BMW Motorsport will ever go down the turbo route, it's not something they have ever done, it doesn't fit with the culture of the M cars.

I believe the next big thing will be a M, AMG, RS performance diesel, Audi have already previewed the V12 diesel R8, I'd bet the farm on it that that motor will go into A8 and A6 models as an S or RS. Performance with economy, lower emissions and stump pulling torgue what's not to like.

Andy7oaks

I'd rather have less power and a much lighter AMG to give not only better straightline performance but less mpg and better handling also. Final advantage is being possibly able to use less expensive components on the major mechanicals and have the same reliability.

I think something with 350bhp and less than 1300kg would be pretty fun.

Regards

Andy

hkycoldrct

No big deal. At what point does it really end? They come out with 300HP, then we counter with 325HP; it's a never ending cycle. Truth of the matter is 400HP for a street car really is more than enough. There are other area's MB can focus on like getting a manual transmission dropped in or better handling on the larger E sedans.

I like what Chevy did with the Corvette ZR1 but you can never really play with that ride on the street unless you either (1) don't mind losing your liscense (2) don't mind killing yourself (or others around you). I've heard of alot of folks with the Z06 that end up selling them becasue it's got too many ponies for the steet. Most of us will never track their cars so there has to be a point where the manufactures go head-to-head on something other than HP. Just my opinion on the subject.

MercedesFTW

I'm actually scared of what the E55 can do. I feel my C55 has ample power for the road...the E55's pull put me in a state of awe (amazement and horror!).

I don't mind if AMG shifts focus from Earth-rotation-changing torque levels to fuel efficiency, better handling, etc.

Konka

A V8 M3 doesn't fit with the culture of M and there it is.

Carl Lassiter

It does when it revs freely to 8,300.

cnchung

Still lots of room for 63s to go. This engine just came out for a short while.

SC the 63 engine could just be a piece of cake for AMG and all other cars will stay at back nice and neat.

KiwiRobbie

Just what I was going to say. Anyway the precident was set when the M5 went from a 6 to an 8, or when the M3 went from a 4 to a 6.