P31...
10-05-2010, 09:45 PM
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CTS-V Coupe
P31...
...Is it worth it?
I haven't read much about what a P31 equipped car can do compared to a non-P31 equipped car. Does it affect the 0-60 time? and the 1/4 mile? Are there tunes available for the P31 equipped cars?
Is the resale value higher on a P31 equipped C63?
I've been debating franticly the purchase of an M3 coupe, a CTS-V coupe, or the C63 with P31. I originally had settled on the V coupe, but now I'm having second thoughts. I recently asked around on several forums and the general response I got was that I shouldn't even consider the C63 because it comes in third in the group. That can't be true though, the C63 is an amazing machine, why would so many people from so many different forums try to convince me not to go with the C63?
In any case the real point of this thread is that I'm kind of dying to know more about the P31 package..
I haven't read much about what a P31 equipped car can do compared to a non-P31 equipped car. Does it affect the 0-60 time? and the 1/4 mile? Are there tunes available for the P31 equipped cars?
Is the resale value higher on a P31 equipped C63?
I've been debating franticly the purchase of an M3 coupe, a CTS-V coupe, or the C63 with P31. I originally had settled on the V coupe, but now I'm having second thoughts. I recently asked around on several forums and the general response I got was that I shouldn't even consider the C63 because it comes in third in the group. That can't be true though, the C63 is an amazing machine, why would so many people from so many different forums try to convince me not to go with the C63?
In any case the real point of this thread is that I'm kind of dying to know more about the P31 package..
10-05-2010, 09:56 PM
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2011 P31 C63 2015 CLA45
I forgot where the thread was but someone dynoed their P31 2011 and got over 420 whp which is equivalent to 500+ hp motor prior to ~18%loss in the drivetrain. P31 is an inexpensive tune and some other mods and you still have your waranty. I ordered mine with it and I recommend everyone else that gets a C63 on order get it also. If you get it off the showroom/dealership, then negotiate like hell. My .02.
10-05-2010, 10:00 PM
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But are there tunes offered for a P31 equipped car? How about resale value? How does it affect the 0-60, and 1/4 mile times?
Basically, all of my above questions still stand..
Basically, all of my above questions still stand..
10-05-2010, 10:05 PM
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There are no tunes available for P31 since they are coming from factory with aftermarket tuned stats there won't be much left on the table to tune. 0-6 and 1/4 times are obviously faster if they are detuned (+40-50rwhp) stock versions. Resale value is unaffected.
10-05-2010, 10:42 PM
#5
Recently, a tune only Eurocharged car ran nearly identical times in the 1/4 to a P31 car.
10-06-2010, 12:11 AM
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It would seem to me that the revised internals would only make it that much easier to safely extract power from this engine. As well, people here are always stating how greatly detuned this engine is, I wouldn't think that the factory adding another 30hp would mean that this engine has hit its peak.....?
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10-06-2010, 12:23 PM
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I find it odd that more people haven't responded, almost seems like nobody wants to touch the subject. Do not many people here have the P31 package? Are there really no tunes available for a P31 equipped car??
10-06-2010, 12:37 PM
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I don't get what you're really trying to find out. It seems pretty clear already.
Why pay 6K for P31 where you get a factory "fully tuned" freak comparable with or better than aftermarket tunes available. If there were a tune for P31, you'd maybe get 10-15rwhp if your lucky and pay close to 1k (not many tuning options for upper tier models already proving this)? You would also lose your factory warranty. For those that just want a tuned factory freak with full warranty and some extra bells and whistles the P31 is a great option. For those that want to go beyond tunes - headers, pulley, nos, etc maybe P31 isn't a great option since you'd need a aftermarket tune to match LTs or whatever unless you really adorn the idea of forged internals then just pay extra after the fact.
10-06-2010, 12:55 PM
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'14 911S (garage queen) '13 X3 (family hauler)
hi King
I've asked the peeps at the AMG PL about the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times and they just said "officially" MB states the 0-60 to be one tenth faster and it was a wink wink answer.
MB is purporsely vague and tight lipped about the exact perforamnce of the P31 pkg.
This all comes down to marketing and keeping their more expensive models "as top dog." They don't want to canabalize their higher end cars by showing a cheaper model as faster and more powerful.
Others here have done independent testing with 1/4 mile times and dynojet runs and the P31 seems to be understated from MB specs and equilvalent to other tuned non-P31 C63s.
For me it boiled down to the fact that the C63 was the car I wanted, period.
And the P31 just made the car better IMO and I gladly plunked down the extra $6K plus $2K for LSD--for me I never wanted to look back and say, "ah, I wish I got this option, damn." So I just checked all of the boxes and called it a day.
The P31 pkg, I'm guessing is only in about 10% of the cars on here--it just came out last year and most C63s that the dealers have do not have the option, just compare what's out there on AutoTrader, etc.
The C63 is a bargain priced perforamnce sedan and the extra options make the car less of a bargain to most of the people buying these cars--mine stickered for just over $82K--I was considering the 2010 leftover E63s because they were close in price--happily I chose the C63 (this is for another discussion
)
Never considered the Caddy and the M3 seemed a little flat to me, plus the C63 is a little larger in the back seat so that mattered to me for my young family needs.
And I was already a happy MB custoemer with my CLK500 so AMG was the next step for me and I liked the C63 since it came out.
My advice, drive all three cars and go with your gut feeling--you will feel the C63 touch your soul like so few cars will--unless you're souless of course
I've asked the peeps at the AMG PL about the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times and they just said "officially" MB states the 0-60 to be one tenth faster and it was a wink wink answer.
MB is purporsely vague and tight lipped about the exact perforamnce of the P31 pkg.
This all comes down to marketing and keeping their more expensive models "as top dog." They don't want to canabalize their higher end cars by showing a cheaper model as faster and more powerful.
Others here have done independent testing with 1/4 mile times and dynojet runs and the P31 seems to be understated from MB specs and equilvalent to other tuned non-P31 C63s.
For me it boiled down to the fact that the C63 was the car I wanted, period.
And the P31 just made the car better IMO and I gladly plunked down the extra $6K plus $2K for LSD--for me I never wanted to look back and say, "ah, I wish I got this option, damn." So I just checked all of the boxes and called it a day.
The P31 pkg, I'm guessing is only in about 10% of the cars on here--it just came out last year and most C63s that the dealers have do not have the option, just compare what's out there on AutoTrader, etc.
The C63 is a bargain priced perforamnce sedan and the extra options make the car less of a bargain to most of the people buying these cars--mine stickered for just over $82K--I was considering the 2010 leftover E63s because they were close in price--happily I chose the C63 (this is for another discussion
)Never considered the Caddy and the M3 seemed a little flat to me, plus the C63 is a little larger in the back seat so that mattered to me for my young family needs.
And I was already a happy MB custoemer with my CLK500 so AMG was the next step for me and I liked the C63 since it came out.
My advice, drive all three cars and go with your gut feeling--you will feel the C63 touch your soul like so few cars will--unless you're souless of course
10-06-2010, 02:48 PM
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2011 P31 C63 2015 CLA45
hi King
I've asked the peeps at the AMG PL about the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times and they just said "officially" MB states the 0-60 to be one tenth faster and it was a wink wink answer.
MB is purporsely vague and tight lipped about the exact perforamnce of the P31 pkg.
This all comes down to marketing and keeping their more expensive models "as top dog." They don't want to canabalize their higher end cars by showing a cheaper model as faster and more powerful.
Others here have done independent testing with 1/4 mile times and dynojet runs and the P31 seems to be understated from MB specs and equilvalent to other tuned non-P31 C63s.
For me it boiled down to the fact that the C63 was the car I wanted, period.
And the P31 just made the car better IMO and I gladly plunked down the extra $6K plus $2K for LSD--for me I never wanted to look back and say, "ah, I wish I got this option, damn." So I just checked all of the boxes and called it a day.
The P31 pkg, I'm guessing is only in about 10% of the cars on here--it just came out last year and most C63s that the dealers have do not have the option, just compare what's out there on AutoTrader, etc.
The C63 is a bargain priced perforamnce sedan and the extra options make the car less of a bargain to most of the people buying these cars--mine stickered for just over $82K--I was considering the 2010 leftover E63s because they were close in price--happily I chose the C63 (this is for another discussion)
Never considered the Caddy and the M3 seemed a little flat to me, plus the C63 is a little larger in the back seat so that mattered to me for my young family needs.
And I was already a happy MB custoemer with my CLK500 so AMG was the next step for me and I liked the C63 since it came out.
My advice, drive all three cars and go with your gut feeling--you will feel the C63 touch your soul like so few cars will--unless you're souless of course
I've asked the peeps at the AMG PL about the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times and they just said "officially" MB states the 0-60 to be one tenth faster and it was a wink wink answer.
MB is purporsely vague and tight lipped about the exact perforamnce of the P31 pkg.
This all comes down to marketing and keeping their more expensive models "as top dog." They don't want to canabalize their higher end cars by showing a cheaper model as faster and more powerful.
Others here have done independent testing with 1/4 mile times and dynojet runs and the P31 seems to be understated from MB specs and equilvalent to other tuned non-P31 C63s.
For me it boiled down to the fact that the C63 was the car I wanted, period.
And the P31 just made the car better IMO and I gladly plunked down the extra $6K plus $2K for LSD--for me I never wanted to look back and say, "ah, I wish I got this option, damn." So I just checked all of the boxes and called it a day.
The P31 pkg, I'm guessing is only in about 10% of the cars on here--it just came out last year and most C63s that the dealers have do not have the option, just compare what's out there on AutoTrader, etc.
The C63 is a bargain priced perforamnce sedan and the extra options make the car less of a bargain to most of the people buying these cars--mine stickered for just over $82K--I was considering the 2010 leftover E63s because they were close in price--happily I chose the C63 (this is for another discussion
)Never considered the Caddy and the M3 seemed a little flat to me, plus the C63 is a little larger in the back seat so that mattered to me for my young family needs.
And I was already a happy MB custoemer with my CLK500 so AMG was the next step for me and I liked the C63 since it came out.
My advice, drive all three cars and go with your gut feeling--you will feel the C63 touch your soul like so few cars will--unless you're souless of course
10-06-2010, 03:08 PM
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'10 C63 AMG P31, '88 Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe, '78 Toyota FJ40, '10 Audi Q7 TDi
See this thread where I document my dyno results on my P31:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...0-c63-p31.html Summary: 425.35 RWHP / 381.97 RWTQ
See this thread where I put my P31 on the 1/4 mile against 5 other C63s in various stages of aftermarket tune.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...t-10-00am.html Summary: With street tires & being my very first time at the track: Best 1/4 mile time 12.584s. Best 1/4 speed: 115.26 mph. Comparable to an Eurocharged tuned non-P31 car that also had street tires.
I've come to the conclusion based on my own testing and carefully observing other's data that the performance of my P31 identical (as identical as can be accurately measured) to the Kleeman K1 and the Eurocharged tune.
Note that my P31 testing is a SINGLE data point. My car appears to be pulling ~505hp at the crank which is SIGNIFICANTLY higher than what the factory claims (481hp). We don't know whether ALL P31 cars perform this well.
Last edited by cek; 10-06-2010 at 04:11 PM. Reason: fixed MHP -> Eurocharged mistake
10-06-2010, 03:37 PM
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2011 GLK 350, 2013 GT-R, & 2013 RAM 1500
Do you sit and hit-refresh on mbworld.org all day?
See this thread where I document my dyno results on my P31:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w204/361787-brabus-b63-tune-vs-p31-read.html Summary: 425.35 RWHP / 381.97 RWTQ
See this thread where I put my P31 on the 1/4 mile against 5 other C63s in various stages of aftermarket tune.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w204/364651-private-dragstrip-rental-norcal-oregon-washington-owners-oct-1st-10-00am.html Summary: With street tires & being my very first time at the track: Best 1/4 mile time 12.584s. Best 1/4 speed: 115.26 mph. Comparable to an Eurocharged tuned non-P31 car that also had street tires.
I've come to the conclusion based on my own testing and carefully observing other's data that the performance of my P31 identical (as identical as can be accurately measured) to the Kleeman K1 and the Eurocharged tune.
Note that my P31 testing is a SINGLE data point. My car appears to be pulling ~505hp at the crank which is SIGNIFICANTLY higher than what the factory claims (481hp). We don't know whether ALL P31 cars perform this well.
See this thread where I document my dyno results on my P31:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w204/361787-brabus-b63-tune-vs-p31-read.html Summary: 425.35 RWHP / 381.97 RWTQ
See this thread where I put my P31 on the 1/4 mile against 5 other C63s in various stages of aftermarket tune.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w204/364651-private-dragstrip-rental-norcal-oregon-washington-owners-oct-1st-10-00am.html Summary: With street tires & being my very first time at the track: Best 1/4 mile time 12.584s. Best 1/4 speed: 115.26 mph. Comparable to an Eurocharged tuned non-P31 car that also had street tires.
I've come to the conclusion based on my own testing and carefully observing other's data that the performance of my P31 identical (as identical as can be accurately measured) to the Kleeman K1 and the Eurocharged tune.
Note that my P31 testing is a SINGLE data point. My car appears to be pulling ~505hp at the crank which is SIGNIFICANTLY higher than what the factory claims (481hp). We don't know whether ALL P31 cars perform this well.
This thread -> https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...-p31-read.html has two good data points. 1) How the OP's P31 was upgraded with a Brabus tune for zero gain and 2) the HP curves of two Kleemann K1 Tuned cars compared to a P31-tuned car from the the same Dynojet.
This post -> https://mbworld.org/forums/4280480-post91.html shows the back-to-back 1/4-mile runs between a Eurocharged-tuned car and a P31-tuned car.
10-06-2010, 03:55 PM
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
...Is it worth it?
I haven't read much about what a P31 equipped car can do compared to a non-P31 equipped car. Does it affect the 0-60 time? and the 1/4 mile? Are there tunes available for the P31 equipped cars?
Is the resale value higher on a P31 equipped C63?
I've been debating franticly the purchase of an M3 coupe, a CTS-V coupe, or the C63 with P31. I originally had settled on the V coupe, but now I'm having second thoughts. I recently asked around on several forums and the general response I got was that I shouldn't even consider the C63 because it comes in third in the group. That can't be true though, the C63 is an amazing machine, why would so many people from so many different forums try to convince me not to go with the C63?
In any case the real point of this thread is that I'm kind of dying to know more about the P31 package..
I haven't read much about what a P31 equipped car can do compared to a non-P31 equipped car. Does it affect the 0-60 time? and the 1/4 mile? Are there tunes available for the P31 equipped cars?
Is the resale value higher on a P31 equipped C63?
I've been debating franticly the purchase of an M3 coupe, a CTS-V coupe, or the C63 with P31. I originally had settled on the V coupe, but now I'm having second thoughts. I recently asked around on several forums and the general response I got was that I shouldn't even consider the C63 because it comes in third in the group. That can't be true though, the C63 is an amazing machine, why would so many people from so many different forums try to convince me not to go with the C63?
In any case the real point of this thread is that I'm kind of dying to know more about the P31 package..
The C63 is quicker/faster than the M3, has more room, more power, and more tuning potential. It is also very close in performance to the CTS-V despite having less hp but it is much better built, and to me, it looks better than the CTS-V coupe.
Regarding the P31, it is a great option. If you can afford it and are planning on keeping the car a few years, then absolutely go for it. However, if it will be too much money and if you're not going to keep the car too long, then don't get it because the higher the initial price of the car, the more depreciation it will suffer when it is time to sell it.
10-06-2010, 04:14 PM
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Putting the P31 issue aside for a moment, how the heck does the C63 "come in third in the group"???? How did these people figure that?
The C63 is quicker/faster than the M3, has more room, more power, and more tuning potential. It is also very close in performance to the CTS-V despite having less hp but it is much better built, and to me, it looks better than the CTS-V coupe.
Regarding the P31, it is a great option. If you can afford it and are planning on keeping the car a few years, then absolutely go for it. However, if it will be too much money and if you're not going to keep the car too long, then don't get it because the higher the initial price of the car, the more depreciation it will suffer when it is time to sell it.
The C63 is quicker/faster than the M3, has more room, more power, and more tuning potential. It is also very close in performance to the CTS-V despite having less hp but it is much better built, and to me, it looks better than the CTS-V coupe.
Regarding the P31, it is a great option. If you can afford it and are planning on keeping the car a few years, then absolutely go for it. However, if it will be too much money and if you're not going to keep the car too long, then don't get it because the higher the initial price of the car, the more depreciation it will suffer when it is time to sell it.
10-06-2010, 05:08 PM
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2009 C63 with Eurocharged tune and charcoal delete
To answer the OP's initial question "Is it worth it?"......for me the answer was no. I was already stretching a bit to spend the money on a C63 (previous car was a 335 coupe) and I use it as a daily driver with over 25K miles per year, so I knew the depreciation was going to be crazy. Add in the fuel costs, tires (don't get me started on that), routine maintenance, insurance, etc, and this is not a cheap car to own over time. The cost of the "performance" options would have taken the price into scary territory for me, so I got all the usual "luxury" options. I then spent $750 for a Eurocharged tune and I feel like I have the best of both worlds without having paid an arm and leg for it. If somebody has unlimited funds or plans on tracking/dragging the car then their priorities might be totally different. But, I can guaranty you that when resale time comes for all of us the buyer or trade-in dealer is not going to give you a dime extra for the P31 package or the LSD. They look up "2009 C63" in their little black book (if they are smart enough to even know what the freaking car is...) and pull a number out of their butt.I just couldn't justfy the extra cost.
10-07-2010, 01:33 AM
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To answer the OP's initial question "Is it worth it?"......for me the answer was no. I was already stretching a bit to spend the money on a C63 (previous car was a 335 coupe) and I use it as a daily driver with over 25K miles per year, so I knew the depreciation was going to be crazy. Add in the fuel costs, tires (don't get me started on that), routine maintenance, insurance, etc, and this is not a cheap car to own over time. The cost of the "performance" options would have taken the price into scary territory for me, so I got all the usual "luxury" options. I then spent $750 for a Eurocharged tune and I feel like I have the best of both worlds without having paid an arm and leg for it. If somebody has unlimited funds or plans on tracking/dragging the car then their priorities might be totally different. But, I can guaranty you that when resale time comes for all of us the buyer or trade-in dealer is not going to give you a dime extra for the P31 package or the LSD. They look up "2009 C63" in their little black book (if they are smart enough to even know what the freaking car is...) and pull a number out of their butt.I just couldn't justfy the extra cost.
Just doesn't seem worth it when you can do a quick K1 fix. Only problem is the warranty issue. Someone (brabus?) should have a mercedes-approved tune that doesn't void the warranty...
10-07-2010, 05:12 AM
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CTS-V Coupe
Wow! Thanks for all the feedback!
To those who were giving me attitude just for the hell of it, check that crap at the door I'm just here to get people's opinions. It was odd that there were so few responses (imho), and no I don't sit at mbworld.org all day and hit the refresh button--but seeing as I'm moving on a C63 very soon I was certainly checking the site more frequently, yes.
I'm going to go with a P31 equipped car, Mars Red and every option, black leather interior. Hopefully I'll be posting up pics of my new C63 here soon! Thanks guys!
To those who were giving me attitude just for the hell of it, check that crap at the door I'm just here to get people's opinions. It was odd that there were so few responses (imho), and no I don't sit at mbworld.org all day and hit the refresh button--but seeing as I'm moving on a C63 very soon I was certainly checking the site more frequently, yes.
I'm going to go with a P31 equipped car, Mars Red and every option, black leather interior. Hopefully I'll be posting up pics of my new C63 here soon! Thanks guys!
10-07-2010, 09:19 AM
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2010 Irridium Silver MB C63 AMG Sedan
To answer the OP's initial question "Is it worth it?"......for me the answer was no. I was already stretching a bit to spend the money on a C63 (previous car was a 335 coupe) and I use it as a daily driver with over 25K miles per year, so I knew the depreciation was going to be crazy. Add in the fuel costs, tires (don't get me started on that), routine maintenance, insurance, etc, and this is not a cheap car to own over time. The cost of the "performance" options would have taken the price into scary territory for me, so I got all the usual "luxury" options. I then spent $750 for a Eurocharged tune and I feel like I have the best of both worlds without having paid an arm and leg for it. If somebody has unlimited funds or plans on tracking/dragging the car then their priorities might be totally different. But, I can guaranty you that when resale time comes for all of us the buyer or trade-in dealer is not going to give you a dime extra for the P31 package or the LSD. They look up "2009 C63" in their little black book (if they are smart enough to even know what the freaking car is...) and pull a number out of their butt.I just couldn't justfy the extra cost.
10-07-2010, 12:12 PM
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2011 P31 C63 2015 CLA45
Wow! Thanks for all the feedback!
To those who were giving me attitude just for the hell of it, check that crap at the door I'm just here to get people's opinions. It was odd that there were so few responses (imho), and no I don't sit at mbworld.org all day and hit the refresh button--but seeing as I'm moving on a C63 very soon I was certainly checking the site more frequently, yes.
I'm going to go with a P31 equipped car, Mars Red and every option, black leather interior. Hopefully I'll be posting up pics of my new C63 here soon! Thanks guys!
To those who were giving me attitude just for the hell of it, check that crap at the door I'm just here to get people's opinions. It was odd that there were so few responses (imho), and no I don't sit at mbworld.org all day and hit the refresh button--but seeing as I'm moving on a C63 very soon I was certainly checking the site more frequently, yes.
I'm going to go with a P31 equipped car, Mars Red and every option, black leather interior. Hopefully I'll be posting up pics of my new C63 here soon! Thanks guys!
I've considered mars red as well. Post some pics when you get it!
10-07-2010, 01:16 PM
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08 S65, 06 M3 CS(stick), 02 BMW X5 4.6iS, 07 R1 Raven, 08 F-450 4x4, 08 CooperS JCW
Ppl without p31 will all too often find a way to pick holes in the option (sour grapes/green eyed monster....)but if you can afford it it clearly makes sense...more reliable and warranty remains intact plus you have strengthened/improved internals for if you ever want to go aftermarket a few years down the road...
10-07-2010, 03:59 PM
#24
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Ppl without p31 will all too often find a way to pick holes in the option (sour grapes/green eyed monster....)but if you can afford it it clearly makes sense...more reliable and warranty remains intact plus you have strengthened/improved internals for if you ever want to go aftermarket a few years down the road...
