M156 head bolt problems
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From: San Diego/San Francisco
AMG GLC63. Audi R8
A hopefully second last update on my car. Will let you all know details of the moter rebuild sheet when I get it. A small issue before I got the car back was a broken engine mount. This was replaced before I got the car back.
I got the car back on Friday. First Cold Start this AM
All seems to work well but currently running in phase so hard to tell performance wise. Thanks to MB for covering the majority of the rebuild cost. My cost came in under what I offered (5K) and I ended up with new plugs (which were due), a service completed and 12 months warranty on an almost fully rebuilt engine. Its wrong to say I am happy (as my car had this issue) but so far satisfied with the way it was handled other than the timing (22 weeks) to get the car back.
Thanks to all those who commented and supported through this. Happy Motoring!
I got the car back on Friday. First Cold Start this AM
All seems to work well but currently running in phase so hard to tell performance wise. Thanks to MB for covering the majority of the rebuild cost. My cost came in under what I offered (5K) and I ended up with new plugs (which were due), a service completed and 12 months warranty on an almost fully rebuilt engine. Its wrong to say I am happy (as my car had this issue) but so far satisfied with the way it was handled other than the timing (22 weeks) to get the car back.
Thanks to all those who commented and supported through this. Happy Motoring!
Glad to hear you got your car back especially with a new motor.
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From: San Diego/San Francisco
AMG GLC63. Audi R8
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C63 AMG
Eventually I'll try to search all the forums here but it'll be some time before that happens. I have been told that the rate of head bolt failure is higher on the non-C AMG models (the higher output engines) and those would be probably underreorted on a % basis on MB World.
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From: Walnut Creek, CA
Vivid Racing '09 C63 AMG
Eventually I'll try to search all the forums here but it'll be some time before that happens. I have been told that the rate of head bolt failure is higher on the non-C AMG models (the higher output engines) and those would be probably underreorted on a % basis on MB World.
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From: San Diego/San Francisco
AMG GLC63. Audi R8
Normal wear and tear, failure from age and misuse is the owner’s problem.
It’s the manufacturer’s problem is when the part is known to fail and has undergone a running change during the MY2010 build cycle to rectify the possibility of further issues.
I see your reasoning and for 5k I would have most likely done the same.
That is why they win. If they were not responsible, you’d have gotten nothing.
.
It’s the manufacturer’s problem is when the part is known to fail and has undergone a running change during the MY2010 build cycle to rectify the possibility of further issues.
I see your reasoning and for 5k I would have most likely done the same.
That is why they win. If they were not responsible, you’d have gotten nothing.
.
Morgan, I think you ended up with a good result. You got a new motor (not a rebuild or retrofit) for $5,000. I'd take that any time over going to court.
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From: Los Angeles
2009 C63
i've had my coolant light come on twice this week.
1st time I was parked on my driveway (steep part) and light came on.
2nd time was on start up in my garage just 1 week after the 1st time.
In between those 2 coolant lights, I changed my oil/filter. Oil looked fine no milky or cloudy fluid. I've also been checking my coolant reservoir for the last 2 months since hearing about all these failures and the level really hasn't moved. It's about 1 inch below the black part (so 1 inch of white showing in the tank).
No white smoke, no driving issues. Was maybe going to top it up, we will see. 37, 000 miles. I could take it in for documentation and get it on file but I have mods.
1st time I was parked on my driveway (steep part) and light came on.
2nd time was on start up in my garage just 1 week after the 1st time.
In between those 2 coolant lights, I changed my oil/filter. Oil looked fine no milky or cloudy fluid. I've also been checking my coolant reservoir for the last 2 months since hearing about all these failures and the level really hasn't moved. It's about 1 inch below the black part (so 1 inch of white showing in the tank).
No white smoke, no driving issues. Was maybe going to top it up, we will see. 37, 000 miles. I could take it in for documentation and get it on file but I have mods.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,601
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From: San Diego/San Francisco
AMG GLC63. Audi R8
i've had my coolant light come on twice this week.
1st time I was parked on my driveway (steep part) and light came on.
2nd time was on start up in my garage just 1 week after the 1st time.
In between those 2 coolant lights, I changed my oil/filter. Oil looked fine no milky or cloudy fluid. I've also been checking my coolant reservoir for the last 2 months since hearing about all these failures and the level really hasn't moved. It's about 1 inch below the black part (so 1 inch of white showing in the tank).
No white smoke, no driving issues. Was maybe going to top it up, we will see. 37, 000 miles. I could take it in for documentation and get it on file but I have mods.
1st time I was parked on my driveway (steep part) and light came on.
2nd time was on start up in my garage just 1 week after the 1st time.
In between those 2 coolant lights, I changed my oil/filter. Oil looked fine no milky or cloudy fluid. I've also been checking my coolant reservoir for the last 2 months since hearing about all these failures and the level really hasn't moved. It's about 1 inch below the black part (so 1 inch of white showing in the tank).
No white smoke, no driving issues. Was maybe going to top it up, we will see. 37, 000 miles. I could take it in for documentation and get it on file but I have mods.
Last edited by DuaneC63; Oct 17, 2012 at 02:13 AM.
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From: San Diego/San Francisco
AMG GLC63. Audi R8
Unfortunately all the forum can accumulate is imperfect data due to the small and selective sample size. Only MBZ knows the full extent of the problem and they are not about to make these public unless compelled to by DOT/EPA etc or through the discovery process of a lawsuit which is cost prohibitive. Most SA will even deny there is a service bulletin on this issue.
Super Member
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2009 c63
ok... so maybe I'm a litle slow, but is 56985 "less than" 569xx 60 060658.
My engine is 156985 60 043109
...or is it the 043109<060658 that gets me into trouble?
Thx.
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From: Houston, TX
2014 E63 AMGs, 2015 F-150 Lariat, 2010 Porsche C4S
Regards,
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From: NYC
2015 GL450
Hello everyone...I've been following this topic fr a while as I'm in the market for a 2007-2009 e63. I have a hypothetical question regarding cars that are still under warranty and I'm not sure I'm explaining this correctly, but here goes...
Is there anything an owner could do to his car to force the dealer to perform the head bolt/gasket change under warranty before the problem actually occurs? Ie repeatedly remove coolant or loosen some screw? I'm not suggesting people should do this, but wondering if there is anyway to get the dealer to perform this work under warranty.
Just my two cents...thanks
Lktb
Is there anything an owner could do to his car to force the dealer to perform the head bolt/gasket change under warranty before the problem actually occurs? Ie repeatedly remove coolant or loosen some screw? I'm not suggesting people should do this, but wondering if there is anyway to get the dealer to perform this work under warranty.
Just my two cents...thanks
Lktb
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 158
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From: Victoria Australia
C63 AMG, C36 AMG, SL500
Is there anything an owner could do to his car to force the dealer to perform the head bolt/gasket change under warranty before the problem actually occurs? Ie repeatedly remove coolant or loosen some screw? I'm not suggesting people should do this, but wondering if there is anyway to get the dealer to perform this work under warranty.
Just my two cents...thanks
Lktb
Just my two cents...thanks
Lktb
Bruce
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From: Walnut Creek, CA
Vivid Racing '09 C63 AMG
I think the dishonesty in this case would cancel out MB's neglect on this issue.
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2012 C63;1971 280SE 3.5(Sold);2023 EQS 450 SUV 4 Matic (Wife's)
If you have had any dealer service it may be printed on you Repair Order. That is where I found mine. If not phone the dealer and get them to pull up the info on your car. Mine is a '10 as well and has the old style head bolts. My build month was April 2010 and my engine is 1500 or so below the changeover.
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From: Melbourne
(a)'12 C63 P/P, LSD, 19" m/spoke,comfort pack. (b)Astra SRI.
There's been all sorts of talk about the Class Action/Court Case relative to this issue, but I've never read any concrete specific details about this case.
I'm not interested in any, "general", "suppositions", "opinions", etc etc.....but if anyone knows the REAL situation with respect to this "Case", & where it is currently at....and like I said, REAL facts,.....I'd be interested in learning those "FACTS".
Cheers, Pickles.
I'm not interested in any, "general", "suppositions", "opinions", etc etc.....but if anyone knows the REAL situation with respect to this "Case", & where it is currently at....and like I said, REAL facts,.....I'd be interested in learning those "FACTS".
Cheers, Pickles.
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From: Desert
02 CLK 55 AMG,09 C63 loaded with P30
I have a 09 C63 with 27K+ miles. I keep a eye on the coolant level. So far the level stays full. Its been like this for 3 years. Seems it doesnt use any. My Clk55 with 72k miles uses a little coolant.
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MB
There's been all sorts of talk about the Class Action/Court Case relative to this issue, but I've never read any concrete specific details about this case.
I'm not interested in any, "general", "suppositions", "opinions", etc etc.....but if anyone knows the REAL situation with respect to this "Case", & where it is currently at....and like I said, REAL facts,.....I'd be interested in learning those "FACTS".
Cheers, Pickles.
I'm not interested in any, "general", "suppositions", "opinions", etc etc.....but if anyone knows the REAL situation with respect to this "Case", & where it is currently at....and like I said, REAL facts,.....I'd be interested in learning those "FACTS".
Cheers, Pickles.
The class action involves internal engine parts made with incompatible metal.
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C63 AMG
Some thread catchup.
I am a realistic thinking guy and this post has a ton of common sense in it. Not that the engines shouldn't be able to handle the extra HP, but with the head bolt issue, it will be exacerbate the issue...it just has to do with natural physics...
Originally Posted by bhamg
This is JMO, nothing more and totally unsubtantiated with any facts. Based on some conversations with a couple of people who work for M-B about the relative frequency of failure across the output range of the M156, I'd guess it increases the chances of head bolt failure...slightly to moderately. Now, is there a meaningful difference between a 2% or a 3% chance of failure (bearing in mind the latter figure is 50% greater than the former)...the answer for me is "no." A tune will raise cylinder pressures, and with potentially defective head bolts increased cylinder pressure is never a good thing. What's the pressure increase? My guess is a minimum of 10% with a tune. That's one reason why chasing the last few HP with a tune just to put up a number while not a fool's game has never made sense to me.
Agree that a tune that pushes the limits (too much advance etc) will cause all kinds of problems including exacerbating the potential for a head bolt issue. Remember these engines were detuned by the factory for marketing reasons, not engineering reasons. It's rare to find a NA engine that gets up to or over 50HP from just a tune. The real issue with any tune is that it voids your warranty and it may not have caused the head bolt failure to begin with.
so is anybody having a bolt replacement done on their own terms? as in having the new bolts or weistec heads put in without any failure or symptoms?
I really want to get into an 08 to keep the next 4-ish years stock but this is really pushing me away to alternatives.. but I guess i can always just have it done down the road
I really want to get into an 08 to keep the next 4-ish years stock but this is really pushing me away to alternatives.. but I guess i can always just have it done down the road
I thlnk that ACG Automotive in San Diego has done a few with weistec head studs. If you're not going to mod the car, you might as well wait to see if it fails (just make sure you are alert to the symptoms before you hydrolock the motor), then complain to MBZ who seems too be willing to work out cost sharing in some cases. Don't let them hit you with their insulting "assesment charge" if you decide not to have them do the work.
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C63 AMG
Here's an interesting treatise I bookmarked some time ago. It's well worth reading about the engineering that went into the M156 motor. I recently went back to it and there's an interesting addendum (which I won't quote beyond the opening).
http://www.marcusfitzhugh.com/CLK/63.html
2012 Addendum: Time is beginning to reveal a few secrets . . . . . . . .
Early M156s have serious top end issues. Early as in through engine number #60658 (those are the last five digits of the engine number and this issue impacts all 63 engines through the early 2010 vehicles). "Issues" as in plural.
http://www.marcusfitzhugh.com/CLK/63.html
2012 Addendum: Time is beginning to reveal a few secrets . . . . . . . .
Early M156s have serious top end issues. Early as in through engine number #60658 (those are the last five digits of the engine number and this issue impacts all 63 engines through the early 2010 vehicles). "Issues" as in plural.
