Transmission Service
#1
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Transmission Service
Hi Everyone,
I need your help. I've decided to do the service on my 2010 C63 (trans 722.907), and at the same time do my Daughter's 2011 C300 (trans 722.999). I'm unclear on which fluid to use on either or both. To add complication to the C300, StarTek indicates that trannys built 6/21/2010 have a new improved pan and this drives which temperature used to determine proper fluid level. The car could fall either side of that date, and I'm unclear on how to find out which version is on car.
I'm assuming the C63 has the additional trans fluid cooler, but not sure if the C300 does as well. Hopefully you all know, otherwise I'll go on StarTek and find out.
I've attached the procedure for filling the transmission and I would appreciate it if someone can make sense of it related to the above, or direct me to definitive thread or site that clearly spells out the process.
So what I need to know is:
1. Which fluid for both cars? I read somewhere one can move to newer fluid on any car, but backward.
2. What temperature to use to set levels in both cars?
3. Anyway to easily (visually from outside) know which pan setup is in the C300?
4. Should/do I "upgrade" the pan and associated parts on the C63 (and C300 if it's not), or are the newer parts what I'll get regardless when I order them up?
I'm making a special tee fitting that will allow me to put a thermocouple up into the pan, that also allows filling to get a read on temps without hooking up to StarTek.
Thanks,
Joe
I need your help. I've decided to do the service on my 2010 C63 (trans 722.907), and at the same time do my Daughter's 2011 C300 (trans 722.999). I'm unclear on which fluid to use on either or both. To add complication to the C300, StarTek indicates that trannys built 6/21/2010 have a new improved pan and this drives which temperature used to determine proper fluid level. The car could fall either side of that date, and I'm unclear on how to find out which version is on car.
I'm assuming the C63 has the additional trans fluid cooler, but not sure if the C300 does as well. Hopefully you all know, otherwise I'll go on StarTek and find out.
I've attached the procedure for filling the transmission and I would appreciate it if someone can make sense of it related to the above, or direct me to definitive thread or site that clearly spells out the process.
So what I need to know is:
1. Which fluid for both cars? I read somewhere one can move to newer fluid on any car, but backward.
2. What temperature to use to set levels in both cars?
3. Anyway to easily (visually from outside) know which pan setup is in the C300?
4. Should/do I "upgrade" the pan and associated parts on the C63 (and C300 if it's not), or are the newer parts what I'll get regardless when I order them up?
I'm making a special tee fitting that will allow me to put a thermocouple up into the pan, that also allows filling to get a read on temps without hooking up to StarTek.
Thanks,
Joe
#2
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The pans of the later fluid have deeper dimples. if you take a picture i can tell you. They also have a different color fill tube but that cant be seen until the pan is out. The fluid is forwards compatible but not backwards. The newer fluid is just a hair more pricey so you might as well just get the newer stuff. temperature you are looking for is 112-115 F* for both.
#3
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The pans of the later fluid have deeper dimples. if you take a picture i can tell you. They also have a different color fill tube but that can't be seen until the pan is out. The fluid is forwards compatible but not backwards. The newer fluid is just a hair more pricey so you might as well just get the newer stuff. temperature you are looking for is 112-115 F* for both.
Another search on StarTek for cars older than the 2011 C300 and newer, shows different parts once a 2011 has a tranny number above the switchover. So, I'll just buy the parts showing on StarTek.
Thanks again,
Joe
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Keep in mind, I believe the Shell is a Synthetic Blend, not 100% Synthetic. I have not been able to figure out what the OEM MB stuff is. I know the Mobile 1 and Valvoline ATF 134 fluids are 100% synthetic, but appear very hard to find in the US, which is odd considering they are both American companies. (Val Synpower ATF 134 is only available in EU as far as I can tell)
I would like more info on the blue (newer) vs red (older) fluids. I have not heard anything about backwards compatibility. But then again, I have not really been looking. I'm planning on doing my ATF again since the last time I did it I ran out of time and was having issues draining the TC. Going to do it again.
I would like more info on the blue (newer) vs red (older) fluids. I have not heard anything about backwards compatibility. But then again, I have not really been looking. I'm planning on doing my ATF again since the last time I did it I ran out of time and was having issues draining the TC. Going to do it again.
#6
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Oh, and the figure out the new vs old pan, look under your car and take a picture of the pan part number (it is visible on the outside), and compare it to the redesign. If you have every had the dealer do a Tranny flush, then you will most likely have the new pan. There is a TSB notifying dealers to replace the pan when they do the service.
#7
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Keep in mind, I believe the Shell is a Synthetic Blend, not 100% Synthetic. I have not been able to figure out what the OEM MB stuff is. I know the Mobile 1 and Valvoline ATF 134 fluids are 100% synthetic, but appear very hard to find in the US, which is odd considering they are both American companies. (Val Synpower ATF 134 is only available in EU as far as I can tell)
I would like more info on the blue (newer) vs red (older) fluids. I have not heard anything about backwards compatibility. But then again, I have not really been looking. I'm planning on doing my ATF again since the last time I did it I ran out of time and was having issues draining the TC. Going to do it again.
I would like more info on the blue (newer) vs red (older) fluids. I have not heard anything about backwards compatibility. But then again, I have not really been looking. I'm planning on doing my ATF again since the last time I did it I ran out of time and was having issues draining the TC. Going to do it again.
http://oilmart.com/data/products/pds...0ATF%20134.pdf
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#8
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This is the description I have found on various sites selling ATF 134 Shell, this particular one from Amazon
Shell ATF 134 is a premium semi-synthetic automatic transmission fluid designed for use in Mercedes Benz 7 speed transmission. • Meets MB approval 236.14 • This product replaces all ATF products listed on MB approval 236.12 • Shell ATF 134 is approved for use for the latest NAG2V sport transmission with west starting clutch (model 0722.930, 931, 932) and the 7G-Tronic (models 722.9 / W7A 700 /NAG2). it can also be used in all 5 speed transmissions with controlled torque converter lockup clutch for vehicles with rear wheel drive (model 722.6 / W5A 580 / NAG1) • Suitable for Chrysler Crossfire, sprinter vans and other vehicles requiring shell ATF 134 or Shell ATF 3353 fluids.
Semi Synthetic == Blend
Shell ATF 134 is a premium semi-synthetic automatic transmission fluid designed for use in Mercedes Benz 7 speed transmission. • Meets MB approval 236.14 • This product replaces all ATF products listed on MB approval 236.12 • Shell ATF 134 is approved for use for the latest NAG2V sport transmission with west starting clutch (model 0722.930, 931, 932) and the 7G-Tronic (models 722.9 / W7A 700 /NAG2). it can also be used in all 5 speed transmissions with controlled torque converter lockup clutch for vehicles with rear wheel drive (model 722.6 / W5A 580 / NAG1) • Suitable for Chrysler Crossfire, sprinter vans and other vehicles requiring shell ATF 134 or Shell ATF 3353 fluids.
Semi Synthetic == Blend
#9
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I was completely off below, left original statement below the ==== line
The keyword in the datasheet listed above is Hydrocracked. This is marketing speak for super refined oil from the ground mineral/dino based oil.
Excerpt from the link http://www.technilube.com/faqs_info/synth_diff.php
"There are five Groups of oils. Group I rarely is used anymore, while Group II is your common petroleum oil. This "hydrocracked" oil is commonly referred to as a Group III oil, while the PAO synthetics are a Group IV. Group V oils do exist, but are uncommon, and typically not often used for automotive use."
This is not technically true synthetic, which starts at Group IV ... So I stand by my statement, ATF 134 by Shell is a synthetic blend
I'm curious if this also make the MB OEM stuff that MB Parts dep sells is also synthetic blend. I remember hearing something that MB OEM stuff is just repackaged Shell and Fuch
================================================== ================================================== =============
Also, from the data sheet you linked. Marketing speak can be confusing, and in some cases intentionally misleading. I am not saying this is the case, just something to think about. The additives statement could also include other oil blends, even if it is premium, that does not preclude mineral oils.
Performance Features and Benefits
Shell ATF 134 is a high performance ATF
formulated with hydrocrack synthetic basic oils,
combined with premium quality latest technology
performance additives.
The keyword in the datasheet listed above is Hydrocracked. This is marketing speak for super refined oil from the ground mineral/dino based oil.
Excerpt from the link http://www.technilube.com/faqs_info/synth_diff.php
"There are five Groups of oils. Group I rarely is used anymore, while Group II is your common petroleum oil. This "hydrocracked" oil is commonly referred to as a Group III oil, while the PAO synthetics are a Group IV. Group V oils do exist, but are uncommon, and typically not often used for automotive use."
This is not technically true synthetic, which starts at Group IV ... So I stand by my statement, ATF 134 by Shell is a synthetic blend
I'm curious if this also make the MB OEM stuff that MB Parts dep sells is also synthetic blend. I remember hearing something that MB OEM stuff is just repackaged Shell and Fuch
================================================== ================================================== =============
Also, from the data sheet you linked. Marketing speak can be confusing, and in some cases intentionally misleading. I am not saying this is the case, just something to think about. The additives statement could also include other oil blends, even if it is premium, that does not preclude mineral oils.
Performance Features and Benefits
Shell ATF 134 is a high performance ATF
formulated with hydrocrack synthetic basic oils,
combined with premium quality latest technology
performance additives.
Last edited by jvanbrecht; 04-15-2014 at 03:20 PM.
#10
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And lets add Fucsh Titan 4134 to the list of synthetic blends.. From the datasheet for 4134
"Selected HVI base oils used (Gp. III plus)"
Group 3 super refined oil... again, not true synthetic..
Sorry, I hijacked the thread heh...
Now.. time to go find Mobil 1 ATF 134.. if anyone has any ideas.. I'm all ears.
"Selected HVI base oils used (Gp. III plus)"
Group 3 super refined oil... again, not true synthetic..
Sorry, I hijacked the thread heh...
Now.. time to go find Mobil 1 ATF 134.. if anyone has any ideas.. I'm all ears.
#11
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Shell ATF134 meets the Mercedes specs and this site states that it's a full synthetic.
http://oilmart.com/data/products/pds...0ATF%20134.pdf
http://oilmart.com/data/products/pds...0ATF%20134.pdf
#12
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Oh, and the figure out the new vs old pan, look under your car and take a picture of the pan part number (it is visible on the outside), and compare it to the redesign. If you have every had the dealer do a Tranny flush, then you will most likely have the new pan. There is a TSB notifying dealers to replace the pan when they do the service.
Thanks,
Joe
#13
Super Member
This is the description I have found on various sites selling ATF 134 Shell, this particular one from Amazon
Shell ATF 134 is a premium semi-synthetic automatic transmission fluid designed for use in Mercedes Benz 7 speed transmission. • Meets MB approval 236.14 • This product replaces all ATF products listed on MB approval 236.12 • Shell ATF 134 is approved for use for the latest NAG2V sport transmission with west starting clutch (model 0722.930, 931, 932) and the 7G-Tronic (models 722.9 / W7A 700 /NAG2). it can also be used in all 5 speed transmissions with controlled torque converter lockup clutch for vehicles with rear wheel drive (model 722.6 / W5A 580 / NAG1) • Suitable for Chrysler Crossfire, sprinter vans and other vehicles requiring shell ATF 134 or Shell ATF 3353 fluids.
Semi Synthetic == Blend
Shell ATF 134 is a premium semi-synthetic automatic transmission fluid designed for use in Mercedes Benz 7 speed transmission. • Meets MB approval 236.14 • This product replaces all ATF products listed on MB approval 236.12 • Shell ATF 134 is approved for use for the latest NAG2V sport transmission with west starting clutch (model 0722.930, 931, 932) and the 7G-Tronic (models 722.9 / W7A 700 /NAG2). it can also be used in all 5 speed transmissions with controlled torque converter lockup clutch for vehicles with rear wheel drive (model 722.6 / W5A 580 / NAG1) • Suitable for Chrysler Crossfire, sprinter vans and other vehicles requiring shell ATF 134 or Shell ATF 3353 fluids.
Semi Synthetic == Blend
#14
And lets add Fucsh Titan 4134 to the list of synthetic blends.. From the datasheet for 4134
"Selected HVI base oils used (Gp. III plus)"
Group 3 super refined oil... again, not true synthetic..
Sorry, I hijacked the thread heh...
Now.. time to go find Mobil 1 ATF 134.. if anyone has any ideas.. I'm all ears.
"Selected HVI base oils used (Gp. III plus)"
Group 3 super refined oil... again, not true synthetic..
Sorry, I hijacked the thread heh...
Now.. time to go find Mobil 1 ATF 134.. if anyone has any ideas.. I'm all ears.
Viscosity, cSt (ASTM D445)
@ 40ºC 36.3
@ 100ºC 7.4
Viscosity Index 176
Brookfield Viscosity, cP (ASTM D2983)
@ -40ºC 10,040
Pour Point, ºC (ASTM D97) -51
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 220
Density @15.6 ºC g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.846
Color Red
Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is a multi-vehicle formula recommended for use in modern high performance automobiles, SUV's, SUT's, vans and other light trucks.
It is recommended by ExxonMobil for use in applications requiring DEXRON® III, Ford MERCON® and MERCON® V performance levels.
Meets or exceeds the off-highway power transmission requirements of Allison C-4.
Recommended by ExxonMobil for use in any power steering unit where a DEXRON® or MERCON® fluid is recommended.
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The Mobil 1 ATF in the US is not the same as Mobil 1 ATF 134 that is sold in Europe. For some reason it is not available here. At least I could not find it.
#16
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Mercedes says the fluid is not backwards compatible... however whenever you get a new valve body it has some blue fluid in it from the bench testing and calibration. whether or not it's going in a new or old one. The transmission pan update was for the very very early 7spds. When they switched to the blue fluid the transmission pan also changed. It's not really a revision with any benefits or updates to it. just uses a different fill tube and has bigger dimples. The 2003 7spd's had problems caused from the original transmission pans hence the bulletin.
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Thanks jvanbrecht. I'm curious to know what dealers are charging for the tranny flush service. I thought I've seen it as low as $400, but my dealer is charging $591. They just did a bunch of excellent free warranty work on my car, so I feel a little obligated/inclined to give them some of my business, but not $591. He was willing to hear/see what other dealers are charging.
#22
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Thanks jvanbrecht. I'm curious to know what dealers are charging for the tranny flush service. I thought I've seen it as low as $400, but my dealer is charging $591. They just did a bunch of excellent free warranty work on my car, so I feel a little obligated/inclined to give them some of my business, but not $591. He was willing to hear/see what other dealers are charging.
Regards,
Joe
#23
Thanks jvanbrecht. I'm curious to know what dealers are charging for the tranny flush service. I thought I've seen it as low as $400, but my dealer is charging $591. They just did a bunch of excellent free warranty work on my car, so I feel a little obligated/inclined to give them some of my business, but not $591. He was willing to hear/see what other dealers are charging.
#24
One other thing. How will you know if the dealer drains the torque converter? Both of my SA's would make sure of that but I suspect many techs would skip that step. Make sure the fluid reflects it I guess.
Last edited by bhamg; 04-16-2014 at 07:38 PM.