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In regards to the start up noise that comes and goes has anyone taken their belt off and checked for any play on any of the pullies? I really want to check the power steering pulley to ensure that isnt possibly the sound as our pumps quality really sucks for some reason and those stupid plastic pullies I need to replace. Had my top one blow on my last C63 mile from home.
In most everyone's experience has this only been at low speed or startup? I am experiencing what sounds like valvetrain noise at lower end acceleration and when I first get on it to do a pull, then after a second it goes away. I have tested this with several of my tune versions and it is more noticeable with a new tune that incorporates variable cam timing to make additional power. To be safe I am back to a non adjustable cam map, but still concerned that something is going on in there.
Thinking it could be any or a combination of the following. Cam Adjusters, lifter buckets, chain tensioner, timing chain, Control Valve Solenoid?
I dont want to just throw parts at it and hope the issue is resolved, but also want to be able to enjoy with confidence, so I'm torn at what my next step is? pull the valve cover and check the cam lobes for obvious signs of wear? replace the cam adjusters? go to an indy or a dealer? I think i know the answer but the consensus of the MBworld experts is always helpful.
In most everyone's experience has this only been at low speed or startup? I am experiencing what sounds like valvetrain noise at lower end acceleration and when I first get on it to do a pull, then after a second it goes away. I have tested this with several of my tune versions and it is more noticeable with a new tune that incorporates variable cam timing to make additional power. To be safe I am back to a non adjustable cam map, but still concerned that something is going on in there.
Thinking it could be any or a combination of the following. Cam Adjusters, lifter buckets, chain tensioner, timing chain, Control Valve Solenoid?
I dont want to just throw parts at it and hope the issue is resolved, but also want to be able to enjoy with confidence, so I'm torn at what my next step is? pull the valve cover and check the cam lobes for obvious signs of wear? replace the cam adjusters? go to an indy or a dealer? I think i know the answer but the consensus of the MBworld experts is always helpful.
Do you have a video of the noise? I have something similar but only notice it on low load between 1500-2500rpm, i'm thinking same options as you, adjusters, tappets, tensioner, chain...
I haven't been able to capture it very well on video, Ill see if I can get a passenger to record and upload. The sound I'm hearing is up higher (valvetrain) and a bit more of a click than what I think i heard in your video upload. Your noise sounded "deeper" in tone. The sound I am hearing is almost like ping pong ***** knocking around but more metallic. To me sounds like the valve adjusters trying to make the adjustment but bouncing back and forth. I never get a code though, so they seem to be making the adjustment and not creating any sort of misfire condition. I have no idea.
I preclude this by stating that I've only driven my "new" 2007 E63 with 94k mi on it only 12 miles since retrieving it from the body shop where a giant smiley face gauge was repaired from the hood.
I've just got done doing my Headbolts as well as the entire front suspension refresh. When it came time for me to install the Cam Adjusters (CA's), I was shocked to find both of my passenger side not only were swapped Exhaust for Intake but both were seemingly the wrong size in that both were apparently too deep to seat properly with the Cam! I admit I didn't notice this when taking it apart! This meant that previous to my taking it apart, the car was driven untold miles without the benefit of proper timing. Unbelievably, the inner race of the CA's were seemingly not wide enough in diameter to seat against the inner face of the CA and against that Diamond Washer! The pressure of the Cam Bolt and the Gear teeth below is what kept the CA in place barely catching the teeth of the gear below! One can see and feel a groove in the inner race where the outer edge of the Cam itself must have been hitting constantly as the CA wobbled around and around!!! Amazingly, the teeth on the Ca, although being brought in precariously close to the Cam Gear Timing Chain, shows no evident damage, nor did the Cam Gear or the chain. I imagine if the teeth did hit the Timing chain, catastrophic failure would ensue undoubtedly!!! Very close call!!
I proceeded to to take them apart to find that the inner Sprocket was installed upside down!! This explains why they both were too deep for the face of the Cam to mate properly as this inner sprocket face, when inserted upside down, what would normally be facing the Cam Bolt was inverted and now facing the CamShaft! This diameter is smaller than that of the side that should face the CamShaft! As such, due to its diameter being smaller, the CamShaft was too wide in diameter to correctly seat against the Diamond Washer. Instead, the Camshaft was hitting the inner rim of the what would normally face the Cam Bolt which caused for the position of the Cam Adjuster teeth to not line up correctly! In fact, they might have had just a 1/4” touching which of course cause for the CA’ teeth to be precariously close to the Timing Chain! This also caused for the inner spring/barrel mechanism to NOT be activated due to the Oil pathway being on the bottom side instead of properly being on the upside facing the timing rings directing oil from the solenoid to the channel leading to the spring/barrel mechanism to cause delay/advance depending whether it's Exhaust or Intake. Only a fool would not notice those teeth not being lined up at the time of re-installation!
No no wonder the timing was so far off when I took her apart, that I did notice!! It also explains why 8 of 16 Intake Valves were bent!!! Yikes!!! I can't wait to get this sweet beast on the road to see what it really should perform like!!!!
2009 C63 with 77,000 miles. No noise from cams, attached pictures are the lobes in the worst condition. Car has always been on Mobil 1 0w-40 then switched to 5w-40. I'm going to run Liqui Moly with the ceratec then switch to MOS2 on the subsequent changes. I still have 20,000 miles of warranty left, so I'm going to hope for the best until then.
Hy. I have a big problem with... w211 camshaft adjuster... pls help me ... I changed 3 times ... and everytime the same problem... the bolt come aut...just say to me the way to fix this problem. Pls help!!! my name is Bud Dan from Romania on Facebook... 0040767400510
Hy. I have a big problem with... w211 camshaft adjuster... pls help me ... I changed 3 times ... and everytime the same problem... the bolt come aut...just say to me the way to fix this problem. Pls help!!! my name is Bud Dan from Romania on Facebook... 0040767400510
Wrong subsection. That's not from an M156 engine so you won't get much traction here.
I've been working on and off on my 2007 E63 literally since the day I bought it!!! In short I had both Heads rebuilt (8 of 16 Intake valves were bent) as well as the Intake Manifold. I installed new front torque Arms and Adjustable Upper Control Arms, New P/S Pump and Reservior, Racing Brake Rotors and Pads, Bled the brakes, two new Ignition Coils, new Sparks, filters, VRP Shorty Headers, SLS Valve Tappets, etc. I finally got it off the jack stands, adjusted the height/stance settings and programmed them in since I had the replace a front ride height sensor, and then, perhaps a little too enthusiastically trying starting her up. Since I replaced bunch of sensors (including the Crank Position Sensor), I did a few resets of the STAR after testing various "actuations" and troubleshooting the "Quick" Scan" faults that appeared such as the "GFi? 9.7 Engine" (IIRC). I went through bunch of the menus regarding Adaptations etc, (such as the the second test for the CPS and the Camshaft Timing Adaptation) but those required me to take it from idle up to 3000rpm or higher. Other "tests" include the fuel pump, but that requires the car to be idling already. Of course there is the "Cold Start" Test, but that just tells you various vitals like coolant temp, oil temp, etc. NOT Fuel Pressure nor spark and also requires it to be running.
So I went ahead gave it go and it seemingly started right up with high idle but then started to get really grumbly and low idle and stayed there. In the back of my mind I inherently thought it may be a lack of fuel pressure, since it has been sitting idle for 9 months since December 2017', but my worries got the best of me and before it grumbled too much more I turned the key off! I pulled up the "quick test" in STAR and clicked on the "f" in GFi 9.7 Engine?? Then selected fault codes and waited, as DAS was reading them all then the barrage of faults were presented, 6 of 8 misfires resulting from either faulty injectors (I had all my injectors professionally tested with readouts of the performance of each-so I can confidently say that's most likely not the issue), or STAR suggested it may be compression-but even with whacked out timing before I took her apart, she ran fairly well, with the exception of the rediculously high idle (1200rpm).
So being that I also had the Intake rebuilt, I went through the menus to test the throttles max openings (each of these test require you to switch off the ignition for ten seconds before re-engaging in order for STAR to clear and reset. Several other adaptation tests, as I mentioned, require a running engine, so until I get there, I cannot adapt the Camshafts Positions, the CPS, Test the Fuel Pump by turning them off individually (I was able to determine that each of them were operating within the appropriate voltage values given in those tests). One of the menus even confirmed that my CA's were set at 0 degrees and something like 80 maybe 180, not sure, but it's cool to see both set 0 and the other two set at exactly the same value. Of course I used the proper Cam Locking tools, but it's cool to see in STAR regardless!
Has anyone else had a rough 1st Start after the months offline doing a rebuild??? If so, some reassurance would be greatly appreciated. It's not like I'm a newbie either having rebuilt my other cars (SAAB Areo-Jeep Grand Cherokee) but neither of those have what equates to being a $20-40+k Engine if all goes wrong!!!!
Here some photos of lifters that were replaced with headbolts while the covers were open. the lifters were replaced as prevention only while the head covers and cams were off, no noise noticed on the car.. This is from C63 2010 model with 100,000km well maintained car.
The camshafts are fine , the lifters mostly fine. only 4 lifters could I feel anything on the top. the lifters werent scratched just a slight indent in the top of 4 lifters only as shown in the pics.
So maintain your cars well and you wont have a problem either.
general pic of the lifters, separated upper lifters totally unmarked lower group a bit marked close up of lower group of lifters the 3rd pair from the right have the most wear of which only 4 of the lifters could the wear be felt by touch. close up of the most marked lifters, the are not scratched (look it by eye) but metal is very slightly indented on the top of 4 lifters
Just finished new HBs on my 2010 w/96K miles.
My lifters looked pretty good with the exception of those on the passenger exhaust side where the adjuster had a badly worn pin/cavity - chattered on start-up(note: nothing I noticed in the car, but was very noticeable outside) and 'slipped' when rotating the crank. links w/more info here... https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...analyzing.html https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...fix-trick.html
I found a used lower mileage adjuster(in Germany), flipped the pin and replaced all lifters primarily to get more life out the cams (softer material) and so far so good. Had a very stubborn lifter at start-up (my understanding is presoaking is a no-no on these) as well as a cel for camshaft position - noise went away, cleared the code and its as smooth as ever. Glad I did the 1-bolt HB method but can't say I'd ever want to do it again - making sure the bolt cavities were clean/dry was by far the most tedious.part for me. For those needing to address the adjusters - correct tools and some basic mechanic skills... not that difficult.
This happened to me on my road trip to the east coast for the summer.. had to replace both cams, lifters, springs, valves, tappits, and the timing tool. the machine shop was able to clean the head and set the valve springs. it was a ***** to take apart and re-install. but I would do it again. I love my AMG.
Is it usually the intake camshaft adjusters that go rather than the exhaust?
Should we be replacing both of them at a time, or just whichever one makes the noise?
Does anyone know if the BANK 1 cam adjuster is the Right or left hand side?
Is it usually the intake camshaft adjusters that go rather than the exhaust?
Should we be replacing both of them at a time, or just whichever one makes the noise?
Does anyone know if the BANK 1 cam adjuster is the Right or left hand side?
Bank 1 is on the passenger's side (which has cylinder # 1). In most cases/ failures, the intake side will not lock anymore, personally I haven't seen a failed exhaust adjuster yet.
Of course the ideal action is to replace all four adjusters, since it is essential to open both banks and set the timing. However, when I had an issue with Bank 2 intake adjuster, I chose to replace both intake adjusters and leave the exhaust side (since it had no issues).
The adjusters aren't very complicated, oil pressure fills passages up to either retard or advance the cams. The noise, on start up, I assume would be the adjuster loosing oil from a worn seal causing the metal to clatter together till oil pressure builds.
make sense to me because weak oil pressure also leads to the chain tensioner failure to perform, leading to rattle as well during cold starting.
mine M276, rattling at cold start. replaced tensioner, cured 70%. suspecting the oil draining back from oil hole or contact surface which leads to oil starving
mine M276, rattling at cold start. replaced tensioner, cured 70%. suspecting the oil draining back from oil hole or contact surface which leads to oil starving
Did you have any ticking/knocking at low RPM and light throttle before that?
What was involved in changing the tensioner? how long did it take?
yes, ticking noise, obviously not injector sound. it was louder when I had excessive engine oil level and now it's much better when replaced oil with normal oil level and clean up of intake runner and valves.
I have the same sound cold or hot and sounds almost like piston or rod knock .
More noticeable now after fitting new lifters and rebuilding the cam adjusters as the engine has no more ticking sounds.
My old cars (Holden HSV Senator) chev engine LS2 had a similar but more noticeable sound when cold which Cheverolet put down to rattling pistons.
The sound went away once the car was warmed up
I bought the car with 100K/klmand drove it a further 60-70K/klms like that with no adverse effects
CWagon - Yep, mine had lifter ticking noise when I got it. Inspected Cams and slight scratching/wear but not that bad. Changed to LiquiMoly and Ceratec and ticking went away. Cams still rattle on startup (I think don't pay attention anymore).
This subtle knocking does my head in. More noticeable when cold, then once warmed up you can still hear it if you know what you're listening for (and of course i can't not hear it now).
04-30-2018, 11:26 PM
