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Liqui Moly best oil for C63 engine ticking noise..!
Hey everyone, I recently had a hedbolt issue, so anyway I changed the oil after that twice and liqui moly was the first time, it didn't make no noise what's so ever...after that I put in Mobil 1 0w40 and the ticking noise is there...I'm going back to liqui moly tomorrow, so I'll try to see if my hypothesis is correct and let everyone know.
2012 C63;1971 280SE 3.5(Sold);2023 EQS 450 SUV 4 Matic (Wife's)
This is a common issue with Mobil1 0W40. The lifters bleed down when the car is sitting and take a while to fill up when the car is restarted making a bit of a clacking sound. What viscosity range is the Liqui Moly? A thicker when cold oil, such as 5W40, seems to cure the problem in most all circumstances.
so it seems to be really about higher viscosity rather than any brand (0W40 vs 5W40, not Mobil vs Liqui Moly). By the way, I use Motul 300V 15W50 - should be better still from this perspective.
so it seems to be really about higher viscosity rather than any brand (0W40 vs 5W40, not Mobil vs Liqui Moly). By the way, I use Motul 300V 15W50 - should be better still from this perspective.
Only downside to a heavier than spec'd oil, is you can get erratic valve timing control due to the increased oil pressure. I haven't seen it happen yet on a benz but a lot of people run the correct oil. I had a 350Z and running a 15-50, the VVL system would overreact when the oil was cold, because of the higher pressures. No real world issue, but i could hear the tone change when pulling away at light throttle as the cams swung too far and back several times. Once the oil warmed up it was fine, and when I went back to a 5-30 it went away, but all the engine noise came back that I was trying to cure with the heavier oils
After nightmare problem after few hours of driving, we are back at it....it seems to be very very quick where I can never press the pedal down to much over here where I'm at!! But there's never too much power..!
Only downside to a heavier than spec'd oil, is you can get erratic valve timing control due to the increased oil pressure. I haven't seen it happen yet on a benz but a lot of people run the correct oil. I had a 350Z and running a 15-50, the VVL system would overreact when the oil was cold, because of the higher pressures. No real world issue, but i could hear the tone change when pulling away at light throttle as the cams swung too far and back several times. Once the oil warmed up it was fine, and when I went back to a 5-30 it went away, but all the engine noise came back that I was trying to cure with the heavier oils
This is something I thought about.
First of all, I am running 5W50 in my Subaru Sti engine. Their spec is lower on the high temp side.
I am measuring both oil temperature and oil pressure there (in the Subaru).
I have full control over the active valve there. If I was not to like what it does, I would change the cam advance table values and aim for less valve advance, to compensate for over advancing because of high oil pressure.
I have 40k miles with this oil on this engine and 150K miles on the previous engine with this same oil (did run at times the factory spec oil too), so there was plenty of time for all possible "oil disasters" to happen to the Subaru.
In the Subaru, the high value for hot viscosity (the 50 in 5W50) does exactly what the number says. Its keeps the oil more viscous at high temperatures. This reflects in the hot idle. The factory spec for hot idle oil pressure (for the EJ207 Subaru engine) is around 14 PSI.
That's exactly what you'll get with a 5W30 and maybe only 2-3 PSI more, but as the oil degrades, you'll drop on exactly that.
With the 50 series oil, you'll get 28 PSI hot idle. What that does, is make for very good valve advance actuation, once the oil is hot.
Now as far as the secondary effect of using 50 series oil, meaning higher oil pressure in cold idle, that happens too, but to a small extent.
It's exactly that, a side-effect, because the cold oil viscosity rating is still a 5 (in the 5W50 oil, vs say a 5W30 oil). So instead of getting 95 PSI cold oil pressure in idle, with outside temperatures in the teens, I get 100 PSI. I think the revved pressure for cold idle is around 100 PSI and I do get over 100, like 105-110 PSI. All the above is measured in the Subaru.
Now there is a disadvantage to the 5W50 oil, it warms up a lot slower. a 5W30 will warm up in normal commute with outside temperature in the teens in about 20 minutes, to where the oil temperature gauge starts to move. The 5W50, literally next day with the same temperature outside, took 40 minutes before the gauge moved (in the Subaru).
But if you are displaying the oil temperature, all this means, in my case, is that I wait till it moves, then start stepping on it, it's only a matter of patience, or warming the car up a bit before leaving. If you're willing to do this, then it's not bad.
In the Subaru, I am mindful of the revved cold oil pressure, but not because of overadvanced cam timing. This does not happen in my cam position logs, I think because cam advance is monitored and corrected via the feedback loop of the cam angle sensors.
I am mindful because I use a factory oil radiator and the hose clamps for that are rated around 120 PSI. The factory does use a double clamp approach anyway, but I could not find literature that describes the compounding effect of double clamping on rubber hoses, as far as pressure rating.
However, in a more simple way of thinking, you don't really need to beat the engine while it's really cold.
So let me say this again, I think that the cam control via the angle sensors compensates for higher than expected oil pressure (for most cars). But it won't be able to compensate for lower than expected oil pressure. So when your oil pressure is at the lowest, in really hot idle, the resources of closing all oil bypass and applying all available pressure for cam actuation, may not be enough.
So now, about the M156, I have a cam log that shows the cams behind by as many as 11 degrees. It seems that they catch up with revs (and oil pressure?) building up, but when you step on the accelerator, they first lag, then catch up.
So for the Mercedes unfortunately, our cars don't measure the oil pressure, not even for the Star Xentry to display. The factory oil pressure measurement procedure calls for a oil pressure pickup installed on a "special" oil filter cap.
I was hoping that the older applications of the M156, like say a 2007 E series, might have that on display, as the old school Mercedes always had an oil pressure gauge. But it doesn't seem this is the case.
Anyway, so for the Mercedes I plan to make this "special" oil pressure pickup cap, by threading a fitting into a spare cap and then measure the current oil pressure.
I was also hoping that I may be able to find a Bluetooth oil pressure sender, that I may be able to permanently install ...somewhere.. on the M156 and just leave it there. I guess its too early for these to be available, so that you could use the iphone to monitor.
So if it turns that the hot idle oil pressure is barely there for the Mercedes(I expect that), I would then switch to a 5W50 oil, re-measure the oil pressure, then do another cam log, let's see if this doesn't fix the cam lag.
W213 E63S Wagon, W204 C63 P30(RIP), WK1 Grand Cherokee SRT8(RIP)
Originally Posted by Vladds
This is something I thought about.
First of all, I am running 5W50 in my Subaru Sti engine. Their spec is lower on the high temp side.
I am measuring both oil temperature and oil pressure there (in the Subaru).
I have full control over the active valve there. If I was not to like what it does, I would change the cam advance table values and aim for less valve advance, to compensate for over advancing because of high oil pressure.
I have 40k miles with this oil on this engine and 150K miles on the previous engine with this same oil (did run at times the factory spec oil too), so there was plenty of time for all possible "oil disasters" to happen to the Subaru.
In the Subaru, the high value for hot viscosity (the 50 in 5W50) does exactly what the number says. Its keeps the oil more viscous at high temperatures. This reflects in the hot idle. The factory spec for hot idle oil pressure (for the EJ207 Subaru engine) is around 14 PSI.
That's exactly what you'll get with a 5W30 and maybe only 2-3 PSI more, but as the oil degrades, you'll drop on exactly that.
With the 50 series oil, you'll get 28 PSI hot idle. What that does, is make for very good valve advance actuation, once the oil is hot.
Now as far as the secondary effect of using 50 series oil, meaning higher oil pressure in cold idle, that happens too, but to a small extent.
It's exactly that, a side-effect, because the cold oil viscosity rating is still a 5 (in the 5W50 oil, vs say a 5W30 oil). So instead of getting 95 PSI cold oil pressure in idle, with outside temperatures in the teens, I get 100 PSI. I think the revved pressure for cold idle is around 100 PSI and I do get over 100, like 105-110 PSI. All the above is measured in the Subaru.
Now there is a disadvantage to the 5W50 oil, it warms up a lot slower. a 5W30 will warm up in normal commute with outside temperature in the teens in about 20 minutes, to where the oil temperature gauge starts to move. The 5W50, literally next day with the same temperature outside, took 40 minutes before the gauge moved (in the Subaru).
But if you are displaying the oil temperature, all this means, in my case, is that I wait till it moves, then start stepping on it, it's only a matter of patience, or warming the car up a bit before leaving. If you're willing to do this, then it's not bad.
In the Subaru, I am mindful of the revved cold oil pressure, but not because of overadvanced cam timing. This does not happen in my cam position logs, I think because cam advance is monitored and corrected via the feedback loop of the cam angle sensors.
I am mindful because I use a factory oil radiator and the hose clamps for that are rated around 120 PSI. The factory does use a double clamp approach anyway, but I could not find literature that describes the compounding effect of double clamping on rubber hoses, as far as pressure rating.
However, in a more simple way of thinking, you don't really need to beat the engine while it's really cold.
So let me say this again, I think that the cam control via the angle sensors compensates for higher than expected oil pressure (for most cars). But it won't be able to compensate for lower than expected oil pressure. So when your oil pressure is at the lowest, in really hot idle, the resources of closing all oil bypass and applying all available pressure for cam actuation, may not be enough.
So now, about the M156, I have a cam log that shows the cams behind by as many as 11 degrees. It seems that they catch up with revs (and oil pressure?) building up, but when you step on the accelerator, they first lag, then catch up.
So for the Mercedes unfortunately, our cars don't measure the oil pressure, not even for the Star Xentry to display. The factory oil pressure measurement procedure calls for a oil pressure pickup installed on a "special" oil filter cap.
I was hoping that the older applications of the M156, like say a 2007 E series, might have that on display, as the old school Mercedes always had an oil pressure gauge. But it doesn't seem this is the case.
Anyway, so for the Mercedes I plan to make this "special" oil pressure pickup cap, by threading a fitting into a spare cap and then measure the current oil pressure.
I was also hoping that I may be able to find a Bluetooth oil pressure sender, that I may be able to permanently install ...somewhere.. on the M156 and just leave it there. I guess its too early for these to be available, so that you could use the iphone to monitor.
So if it turns that the hot idle oil pressure is barely there for the Mercedes(I expect that), I would then switch to a 5W50 oil, re-measure the oil pressure, then do another cam log, let's see if this doesn't fix the cam lag.
Can't have a car forum without somebody responding to a months old thread with a giant wall of text about oil no one is gonna read.
i read that shytt. im here for liqui moly though i want to see how its done.
THESE C63 SEDANS ARE SLICK AF LOOKING. my CLK is a bit dated compaired to these.. anyways i didnt understand the text but tried to anyways. NICE RIDEZ C63 GUYS
...OFTEN I DREAM OF HAVING A C AMG-COUPE but now i think a E350 coupe and c63 sedan will do.
anyways i tired the little bottle in my oil not the "ceratec" liquiMoly and it didnt feel anything like when I use >> Z-Maxx ... put that in my transmission again yesterday << after dropping 3 liters off the top and adding new ATF and zmax.. smooth as ever. i currently am running castrol gtx 0w40 btw. i like it over mobil 1...
also i tried the liqui moly fuel additives. i think it helped my combustion chamber and injectors a lot. decent price for those additives too. ill give ceratec a try and probably the 5w40? oil they offer thanks AMG guys for the knowledge.
W213 E63S Wagon, W204 C63 P30(RIP), WK1 Grand Cherokee SRT8(RIP)
Originally Posted by Jma77i
i read that shytt. im here for liqui moly though i want to see how its done.
THESE C63 SEDANS ARE SLICK AF LOOKING. my CLK is a bit dated compaired to these.. anyways i didnt understand the text but tried to anyways. NICE RIDEZ C63 GUYS
...OFTEN I DREAM OF HAVING A C AMG-COUPE but now i think a E350 coupe and c63 sedan will do.
anyways i tired the little bottle in my oil not the "ceratec" liquiMoly and it didnt feel anything like when I use >> Z-Maxx ... put that in my transmission again yesterday << after dropping 3 liters off the top and adding new ATF and zmax.. smooth as ever. i currently am running castrol gtx 0w40 btw. i like it over mobil 1...
also i tried the liqui moly fuel additives. i think it helped my combustion chamber and injectors a lot. decent price for those additives too. ill give ceratec a try and probably the 5w40? oil they offer thanks AMG guys for the knowledge.
are you Al Qaeda? I couldn't follow ANY part of that..
Last edited by jptaylor; Jan 28, 2017 at 11:14 PM.
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