Having read as many ABC issues as I could, I'm still unable to finish removing the ABC pump from my 2003 CL600. First, while many of the articles have been very helpful (thx, Oxygen), I think the V-12 presents different issues (or at least mine does, anyway). For example, there are in fact only 3 torx headed nuts holding the pump in place, whereas other models have 4. I guess that would be the good news (although the one in the back was as tough to remove as promised). Also, there are a number of other lines in the way that made removal of the remaining bolts more of a challenge. Note removal of lines to AC compressor (... and yes, I know I need to plug them and cover the lines). For now, the one causing the most trouble is a rigid (presumably aluminum (?)) line running parallel to the engine. There's just no way* to get a wrench onto the 19mm bolt holding the banjo fittings at the bottom. Looks like a coolant line but am not sure if it is supply or return.





* I was actually able to get a box wrench on it, but only after making it thinner courtesy of my bench grinder; however, that damn bolt will not budge. I was able to get an open end wrench on it initially but without sufficient purchase, so I managed to round it off a bit. Even after getting the slimmer box wrench on the bolt head fully, I couldn't move it at all. Tried holding the pump stationary and managed to rupture the top throat in the process (... so much for rebuilding it and keeping it as a spare). Looks like I'll have to remove the pump with the banjo bolt still intact, which means removing the 2 lines, of course, and then perhaps having better luck on the workbench.

Soooooooo .... any thoughts on that?


The line interfering with the banjo bolt is the one traced with the red line.

 

If its the bolt I think you mean, try getting a 19mm ratchet head wrench with a pivoting head.

Failing that, support the engine, undo six ABC pipe brackets and lower the front of the sub-frame. Yes, really.

Nick

 

[QUOTE=Welwynnick;6927297]If its the bolt I think you mean, try getting a 19mm ratchet head wrench with a pivoting head.

Failing that, support the engine, undo six ABC pipe brackets and lower the front of the sub-frame. Yes, really.

Thanks, Nick. There isn't enough room for a regular wrench, so a ratchet head wrench certainly wouldn't fit. I was finally able to break the banjo bolt loose by temporarily putting the pump back on to the motor with the front two bolts (only). This kept it sufficiently steady for me to turn the wrench with enough force to get it started. Key word: started. The rest of the extraction was a nightmare, requiring further modifications to my 19mm box wrench on the grinder due to space limitations in the engine bay. Specifically, I had to cut the wrench in half, which gave me two thin, short-handled 19mm wrenches (one open end, one closed). The good news is that I got the old pump out right before I ran out of daylight. The bad news is that I don't think the reverse procedure will work, as I'd have no way to judge whether the the bolt is tightened w/ sufficient torque.

As for raising the motor, I don't see how that would really help, as that metal tube will still be in the way. Perhaps I'll have enough access to the motor to finally unbolt that as well; however, the line runs to the radiator, so wouldn't I have to disconnect it (in addition to disconnecting the ABC brackets) before lowering the subframe. I assume I have to disconnect the motor mounts as well. Think I saw a how-to on all that but may throw in the towel before I get that far.

 

I meant one of these:





It helps a lot if you have a fine ratchet with lots of teeth, say 60 or 72.

Some people recommend lifting the engine, but my suggestion was don't move the engine at all, just lower the sub-frame. Of course you have to unbolt the motor mounts as well as the ABC pipe brackets, but that's all.

There are other things attached to the sub-frame, but as long as you only loosen the rear sub-frame bolts to allow articulation, and lower the front of the sub-frame by 6 inches, there's nothing to worry about.

What you're trying to do is difficult, and I found that it's worth making some effort to improve access. The V12TT is a challenge in every respect, and everything on the underside of the engine is very effectively hidden by the sprawling sub-frame. Once you get the sub-frame out of the way, it really opens up access. For example, what I described allows you to undo the banjo bolt with just a socket, a socket wrench and an extension bar. It could hardly be easier.

Did you get the power steering outlet pipe out OK? That's very difficult to refit.

Good luck anyway.

Nick

 

Thanks. I knew what you meant, but there wasn't enough room to fit that sort of wrench in there. Believe me, I tried :-(. Even with the subframe out of the way, though, I think I'll have the same issue (i.e., clearance between the bolt that holds the banjo fittings for the ABS and that bloody rigid coolant line. Not sure if cars in the UK are exactly the same? To answer your question, yes, I got the PS line out just fine. Everything is now covered and sealed, and I'm cleaning out the engine compartment and underside best I can -- carefully! I think the pump must have been going bad for a while, bc everything in and around the ABC pump location is covered in greasy, grimy soot. Will add an update as soon as I start putting things back together. One last question. I noticed during my initial inspection that in addition to all the green Pentosin that leaked out, there were also drops of what appeared to be motor oil near the front LEFT wheel well. Is there supposed to be motor oil in the pump as well? FWIW, it was very clean. Also, the pump I got from my parts supplier was loaded full of oil, but I presume that was done as a preservaation measure. Thoughts?

 

I don't think its preservation. Priming the ABC pump is critical, as you can't simply fill the reservoir and start the engine. The pump won't prime itself even when the inlet pipe is full of oil.

The standard method is to pressurize the ABC reservoir with a few PSI of compressed air, and push the oil in (though that's not the only way - what I did was open the outlet pipe and turn the pump by hand until oil came through).

Your supplier seems to have primed your pump for you, which is very diligent.

Nick

PS. If you can't remember which way the poly-V belt turns, the tensioner is always on the low tension side of the crank pulley!

 

Thanks again, mate. You've been a huge help. Spent a few hours this morning cleaning the engine bay (or at least that portion where the ABC pump had been -- it was really nasty, which leads me to believe that the pump had been on its way out for some time), as well as the front of the undercarriage (including the high pressure lines near the bottom, which were in similar condition. I figure that in addition to looking a heck of a lot better, it will be much easier to make sure that everything is tight and leak free after the installation. It's also a lot easier to see everything bc it's not all one giant black mess down there. Having had a good look, I can see how dropping the front of the subframe will make it 100 times easier to get to that bottom bolt (����). Then it started to rain, so it's time to leave it alone for a while.

In the meantime, I'll read up on the subframe procedure. I know there are a few posts about that on here. I also want to read up on bleeding out the system properly, as I'd rather not pay a dealer to do a rodeo. Think I have a fix on that as well.

What if anything did you make of my discovery of dripping engine oil in addition to the dripping Pentosin? Again, it was dripping in more or less the same place (i.e., the front driver's side) and not from the oil pan (although based on my inspection of that with the front skid plate off, it looks like I could use a new gasket down there as well. Nothing horrible, so it can (and will) wait until I finish dealing with this pump issue. Does engine oil circulate through the pump as well? It's the only thing I can think of that would cause it to appear in the same place at the same time.

As for priming, I hear you loud and clear. I'll probably use a combination of the two methods I've read about here (i.e., turning the pulley and pressurizing the reservoirs with air) to make darn sure the pump is primed before cranking the motor. As for the diligent supplier -- yes, they are that. But I still find it odd that it appeared to be primed with engine oil and not Pentosin considering the orthodox advise about never using anything but Pentosin. OTOH, if there IS supposed to be some engine oil somewhere in the pump during operation, it might explain why it was dripping from the car in addition to Pentosin. As you know, it's quite easy to distinguish between the two, at least when they are clean (which is the case for my car). The greenish Pentosin was gushing everywhere -- so much so that I had to put a plastic jug under the car after filling the ABC reservoir during the problem-diagnosing phase of this odyssey. The amber motor oil was barely noticeable but distinctly there.

Many many thanks once again.

Cheers!

 

There are lots of possible oil leaks at the front.

There are pipes, joints, seals, gaskets and connections for engine oil, transmission oil, suspension oil and steering oil up front, and it could be any of them.

Lots of ABC pipes obviously, but don't forget the cam cover gaskets!

Nick