Red Marko

Hi all,
Well, finally I can post that I'm replacing my "old" CL550 with new CL600 at the end of the next week (hopefully). Like we stated before. The last week is the hardest. Those sleepless nights .
BTW, I have to thank all of you, to help me make the right choice betw. 600, 63 or R8.
I'm already thinking about ECU chip (Renntech stage1 maybe).
Now question to you guys, since I know nothing about the subject :
1. Any advantages/disadvantages going with Renntech vs. Kleeman vs the others ?
2. How stealth those chips are. Will it void the warranty ?
3. Is it permanent or MB can erase it (my next service visit).
4. Can I do it myself or I have to trust some guy I don't know. Any recomendations from the board members for the NYC area ?


Of course, pictures will follow...

WSH

Congrats, markopolo

To each his own, but IMO, anything aftermkt is moronic....MB/AMG R&D struggles to optimize car vs various parameters, despite enormous R&D infrastruc and extensive pre-prod testing....and needs to continually debug/refine cars based upon real-world reliability/useability feedback (and warranty repair costs)....

In context of today's ever-more complex hardware/software, makes no intuitive sense to me how any aftermkt modif will do anything but depreciate overall perf/safety/useability/reliability of a well-engineered car....would rather save my dollars to get new, latest/greatest-tech factory-spec cars more often...

Am convinced today's cars are more analogous to smartphones (w/an impt diffce being the critical safety value of new, unadultered cars; can easily toss a hacked iPhone that's screwed up, however a modified car introduces critical personal safety risks, esp if events occur at speed) than cars of yesteryr.....both cars and smartphones have an ever-shorter half-life before they are obsolescent and disposable anyway.....

Red Marko

I see your point.
I just did some search on "Renntech upgrade" on this site. I guess I should did that before asking those questions.
Wow, what a difference of opinions. Some say it's great HP/Torque boost, some people want their money back. I didn't expect that. I really thought it's no brainer, everybody should do it.
I have lots of eveluations in front of me, I see...

WSH

It's much like 65 vs 63 debate....

Know many jaded guys who can easily afford to commute via both a new 65 and 599, each traded-in and replaced every 6 mos (or more often), but choose to drive an underpowered CL63 030 (replaced every 6 mos or so)...

More hp/tq isn't always desirable (even ignoring price)....all kinds of trade-offs re: traction, linearity of throttle response, calibration of brakes/chassis vs hp/tq, etc etc...

Part of why I always scoff at aftermkt stuff is that even seasoned, competent mfrs like AMG, P and F struggle to optimize cars vs real-world uses for jaded repeat customers....and most, even well-regarded, AMG/P/F dealers in NYC/SF/LA struggle to competently do basic stuff for these cars....like deliv them w/proper tire P's....or emergently find replacement tires/wheels if have flat tire/wheel damage....I tend not to trust any, even outstanding, factory-authorized dealers to do much more involved svc/repair....let alone any aftermkt shop which relies on cust cars as their "R&D".....value my time too much to deal w/mtce downtime/hassles....so I try to keep it simple and just get a new, latest/greatest-tech, factory-spec car as often as I can afford.....

Germancar1

As always WSH, your posts are most entertaining reading. I can't keep up so you're going for a CL65 or a SL63 w/030?

M

trumpet1

I agree with WSH on everything he says. Very wise input into this conversation. Why, I don't know exactly, but I still wanted that Stage 1 upgrade on my car because I just happen to have some extra cash to throw at my car as I plan on retiring with this car so the car trading has just got to stop. { WSH knows about my urge right now to get a new Renntech S65 AMG and I'm fighting it tooth and nail } Anyway, if you plan on keeping your car for at least 3 to 4 years or longer, then this upgrade may allow you to get a serious bang for the buck if power/torque is your "thing". Why I chose Renntech over the others , I don't know. Is the stage 1 worth it? That is just a matter of opinion of the individual owner. Does it make sense? Not necessarily since the 600 is already so powerful it's ridiculous and on American roads you can only go so fast but fools like me sometimes want to one-up ourselves with our own toys. To be able to tap into that power when in need is amazing!! Nobody I know personally has a car even close to what I have within 50 , heck, 100 miles of where I live so it's not like I'm competing with someone in the power dept.

Is the upgrade stealth? Yes it is, but the MB tech needs to be informed of what you've done and you need to let him know not to touch the ECM with a flash upgrade. I don't have proof one way or the other , but I'm suspicious that my upgrade may have been erased/altered at service B. They say they didn't but I know for a fact that the 130mph limiter was still in effect the other night on a test run and it is supposed to have been increased to 188 (not that I'm going to go that fast on American highways with improper rated tires) but it was the first indication to me that something was amiss. Read the whole story on the W221 forum for details.

Will it void the MB warranty? It normally won't unless there is a direct link of proof between the upgrade and any engine/transmission damage that may be caused by misuse. If it makes you more comfortable, don't place the badges on the car and keep your upgrade stealth from a visual standpoint. One way or the other though, I think you're going to have to have an eye to eye discussion with your technician and be straightforward about it. Renntech has done a considerable amount of research with their products and I feel that with the built in safeguards that MB already has with their software along with the Renntech research that you don't have to worry too much about this. My dealership (from the salesmen, to the owner, to the service advisor, to the techs ) all know about my upgrade and have actually been impressed with it. My salesman even called me about 3 weeks ago and asked if he could refer a customer to me for assistance in getting this done!! Not only that, but he knows about my "video in motion" module and referred that customer to me for more info on that as well. All in all, I think it boils down to some MB dealerships are more liberal than others about things like this. If they've been burned by a litigating -happy customer who won't take responsibility for his/her own actions, then that dealership won't be so receptive about these things. I would never blame damage of my transmission on MB if I knew for a fact I abused the car. I don't put my car to the test that much. I just use that power very carefully and responsibly.

I think the thing I noticed immediately with the Renntech upgrade is the quicker surge from a standstill. The stock 600 will hesitate ever so slightly with it's surge whereas after the upgrade, you get immediate surge and responsiveness. Also, there is certainly a VERY noticeable increase in power and torque. I would almost believe it is almost as strong as a stock 65 ,, however that is only speculation as the only 65 I've ever driven is an 05 SL.
Let your engine go through the break in period, then get a dyno test done, then get the upgrade done , (always use 93 octane!), then re dyno the car.

Only get this upgrade if you really are willing to throw the money at the car with no regrets either way. I think the biggest issue is service tech interactions. You may want to discuss this with the tech first and then pull the trigger if this would give you a better feeling about it. Sometimes I wish I had.....then I wouldn't have to be doing without my car for the next 3 days.

trumpet1

If he gets that CL65 I'm going to be sooooo jealous. There was one on my MB showroom about a month or so ago and it is so knock dead fine.

I think he'll go with another CL63 .....great choice as well. Haven't seen one in person yet.

trumpet1

If he gets that CL65 I'm going to be sooooo jealous. There was one on my MB showroom about a month or so ago and it is so knock dead fine.

I think he'll go with another CL63 .....great choice as well. Haven't seen one in person yet.
Also, IIRC, WSH isn't a big fan of the stitched leather pattern and woodgrain steering wheel. Neither seem to bother me at all but if I had a choice, I would do without the stitched leather as it is too Bentley looking for me. It's OK on a Bentley but not on a sporty car like the AMG CL

trumpet1

If he gets that CL65 I'm going to be sooooo jealous. There was one on my MB showroom about a month or so ago and it is so knock dead fine.

I think he'll go with another CL63 .....great choice as well. Haven't seen one in person yet.
Also, IIRC, WSH isn't a big fan of the stitched leather pattern and woodgrain steering wheel. Neither seem to bother me at all but if I had a choice, I would do without the stitched leather as it is too Bentley looking for me. It's OK on a Bentley but not on a sporty car like the AMG CL.

My youngest son, who is a car freak like me, and I sat in a white Bentley convertible this afternoon. Wow. Beautiful car but a little too over the top for my neck of the woods. If I lived in Atlanta it would fit in, but not here in Alabama

trumpet1

If he gets that CL65 I'm going to be sooooo jealous. There was one on my MB showroom about a month or so ago and it is so knock dead fine.

I think he'll go with another CL63 .....great choice as well. Haven't seen one in person yet.
Also, IIRC, WSH isn't a big fan of the stitched leather pattern and woodgrain steering wheel. Neither seem to bother me at all but if I had a choice, I would do without the stitched leather as it is too Bentley looking for me. It's OK on a Bentley but not on a sporty car like the AMG CL.

My youngest son, who is a car freak like me, and I sat in a white Bentley convertible this afternoon. Wow. Beautiful car but a little too over the top for my neck of the woods and for my taste.

Dr. No

LOL....I'm betting WSH gets the CL 65...I keep nudging our discussion in that direction! WSH is getting older you know, and pretty soon that quilted leather look will start looking good!

Mine is due to arrive mid-August....can't wait...

D.

Dr. No

Ahemmmm, I'm REALLY looking forward to some pics!!!

D.

WSH

Am doing a bit of everything...getting SL63 030 which should arrive end of May. My dealer has me spec'd for first '09 CL63 030 and CL65 build (IIRC, ?late June/July build); so, will be back in CL fold by Aug...my dealer wants to have a copy of each CL in stock anyway, so they're fine w/me deciding 63 030 vs 65 later...

Must say the 65/600 crowd here makes a fine argument for value of effortless, elegantly-delivered tq...

Did a back-to-back of a colleague's SL63 030 vs CL63 030 in twisties today....we're both mediocre drivers, but were stunned how CL is every bit as dynamically brilliant as SL63 030, though w/different strengths/weaknesses....SL has marvelous MCT, more precise steering, tighter chassis set-up and perhaps world's best top-down exhaust music....

But SL is stalemated by CL's notably more confidence-inspiring active/passive safety; better brake pedal feel; and notably better, more grippy sport seats....

Net, net, some amazing cars from AMG (that's why it's so hard to figure out which to get...can't go wrong w/any of the "alpha-dog" AMGs)...IMO, the S/CL/SL63/65 truly embarrass anything from P/F today....suspect many assume a heavy, luxurious, safe car cannot offer the best overall dynamics/precision....I'd argue cars like CL63 030/65 shatter that conventional wisdom when one drives them back-to-back on challenging roads vs formidable perf-focused cars....anyone can engineer raw perf; IMO, the real test of brilliance is to engineer a daily-useable balance of perf/precision/safety....b/c perf w/o safety is fairly meaningless/useless....

WSH

BTW, Germancar1, your prescient call a few wks back that MCT makes no sense in AMG S/CL is spot-on....

MCT is absolutely brilliant in fast fwy driving and twisties (I prefer using S+ mode at all times (except rain obviously), as I hate managing paddles...would rather focus on steering/throttle/brakes/chassis balance...I'm a simple, mediocre driver)...very fast/smooth/smart shifts and incredible throttle response...

But MCT sucks in urban/suburban routine and/or low-speed driving...far too jerky....it's almost as annoyingly jerky as a 599 F-1 box in city...

Germancar1

Thank you sir! Breath held until you make your choice!


M

Red Marko

Yes guys, I have few pics of my brand new baby but I'm little hesitant/ashamed to show it to you.
Brand new car with 16 delivery miles on it and already tomorrow I'm scheduled to visit MB body shop. Relax guys nothing major, although I thought I'm going to have a heart attack. As you prob. know I live in great PA where there is no requirement to have front plates. One of the reasons for me to move here (just kidding).
So i called my dealer 3 times to make sure they don't istall them. They jokingly responded that everybody knows about it already (sticky notes all over the car).
Then after arrival I see the my beautiful 600 waiting for me. I go, look at the front bumper.................and see proudly installed front plate . Those ***@#$%s managed to f-up anyway. After back and forth I accepted the car. I didn't want you guys to turn on TV next day and hear the news about some unhappy client have shot lousy MB dealer
They said, they will make it up to me on extended 4y. warranty.
BTW this car is to stay. Especially with the dying TT V12 breed.

So here it is so far on cloudy weather. Exterior - designo Mocha Black (my way of modding) and Interior - Cognac/Black.
Ill post some new ones after body shop visit and better weather. That Mocha tastes much better in full sun.

trumpet1

Extremely nice, extremely nice. Sorry that the numbnu*s at your dealership placed the tag on the front of the car despite multiple attempts to relay this info. I love your car though.

Red Marko

Thank you, Trumpet very much. The 600 is so much more tranquil and smooth.
Engine wise comparing to 550 (no slouch) - day and night. It takes a lot of will power not to floor it every time you press the accelerator.
Those first 1000 mi... are soooo hard.

Dr. No

Beautiful car! Congrats on your new ride, and thanks for the pics!!!

They'll fix those minor blemishes and your baby will be as good as new...just lean into that throttle now and then and you'll forget all about it!

Gotta love that torque!

D.

WSH

Markopolo, congrats on a magnificent car...enjoy

Would argue cognac/blk interior is absolutely spectacular in context of 600's fine-grained leather and Alcantara headliner....and elegant details like 600's polished steel door sills and trunk sills....

I really miss the elegance of the interior of my previous 600....truly imposs to beat in any car available today at any price....65 only rivals it (but that quilted crap of 65 makes the interior relatively tacky vs 600's more elegant fluting)...

WSH

Dr., have you gotten a confirmed build date on your 65?

Was asking my salesman today to get a specific build wk for 65 and to determine what details are changed for '09...he's working on it...will let you know what I find out...

I presume you've heard about these AMG Perf Studios opening up at various major MB dealers in CA/NYC/Chic, etc? Perhaps we can actually get our 65s w/030 wheels and cf interior trim....and a fine-grained leather sports steering wheel (ala CL65 40th Anniv)....

Unfortunately, we prob will just need to age a few more decades to "appreciate" the design logic/aesthetics (or lack thereof) of that quilted crap in a latest/greatest-tech AMG CL w/an elegantly minimalist, tech-oriented interior....

Red Marko

Thanks a lot Dr. No for kind words. The pain will go away, I hope soon.
I'm waiting for sunny sky over the Weekend to take more. That Mocha Black is an amazing color. The decision on the color was solely based on internet pictures and tiny swatch in the booklet.
As usual with MB colors, in person it looks 10 times better. Hard to describe (pearl tiny gold speckles imbeded in dark, dark brown, almost black). Hope that the my Canon will do the justice. The Cognac/Black interior is almost imossible to photo correctly.
Again. The torque is literally breathtaking. And I love every second of it.

Red Marko

WSH,
Thanks a lot. That means a lot to me . Especially coming from you, who drove all CLs, really knows the difference and can tell the thruth(sometimes in a bit harsh but honest way )
IMHO MB hit absolute bullseye with Cognac/Back interior color. Especially with Mocha Black exterior. You were right, there is subtle but very noticable distinction betw 550 and 600.
One would definitely know where the extra 50k. went (engine+all options+interior).
Is it worth it?
Big time....YES for me. Perfect combination of comfort and performance.

Dr. No

WSH: YES!!!! At last check with NetStar, my CL65 is like number 6 on the build list for 09, production 3rd decade of June..my dealer says ETA mid-August, trying to keep me calm!! I want it now, esp since I just sold off the CL550 Launch...sigh...the garage looks so empty.. I fear it will have those stupid wheels and not the 030s...will have to order them as soon as I know for sure. I'd love to go an AMG studio to "build" it the way I want it..but it won't be in time for me You'd think for 200K we could get it EXACTLY the way we want them!

After chopping tree stumps and shoveling rock today at my lake home, I'm feeling pretty "codgerly" tonight, so maybe I'll love that quilting Just let me limp into that driver seat, fire up that engine, and I'll be "healed"

D.

Dr. No

My CL 550 Launch was Mocha..beautiful, esp in the sunlight...got all kinds of looks..but it needed more TORQUE! So glad you are groovin on it ...it's kinda sad more people can't
experience/understand/appreciate the CL experience...you just can't go back after this car, esp with a V-12....now get out there with some sunlight and send us some more pics!!! I have to live through your posts until AUGUST!

D.