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bought this beauty a while ago and have made it look nice. she sure is pretty. BUT...after some minor mods she just doesnt have the power i would expect. i installed downpipes (speeddriven) and had the tune done but other than that she is pretty much stock. what else can i do to get some power out of her? i contemplated having the intakes plumbed in front of the radiator. i have also contemplated a killer chiller or meth kit. what are the best bang for buck power mods for the w216 v12 platform?
I feel you, I agree the W216 65s are soft. Even with down pipes, custom intakes, intercooler, built Trans, billet turbos, and TCU/ecu tunes, and mine feels the same underwhelming. It's all in the tuning, the older pre 07 65s/600s have much better tuning available. Who has tuned your car? If it's been Speedriven switch to Eurocharged, I always had the best results with them on the 2 different w216 65s I have owned.
the tune is a speedriven off the shelf tune. the first time they flashed it, the car ran like crap. i sent it back and they put another tune on it, but for all i know its stock. i do know that my CEL is on (probably due to 02 sensors). should i do a dyno tune with someone (EC, speedriven, etc) in person or are these off the shelf flashes sufficient?
i also bought the IC pump from speedriven but i never installed it because it didnt appear to fit the car.
Verify intercooler system first, if it's down on power. Then consider a different tune. I have a Eurocharged tune on my 600 and when the intercooler system was getting air in it because of a leaky cap, the car would feel dead when the temps were high. Fixed the leak and bled the system, car runs like a raped ape.
I see your kinda local, if there's something I can help with let me know. I'm a master tech at MB of Miami
I went through a similar experience with my w215 CL65. It's got the items in my profile. A few questions:
1) Did you do the install on the downpipes?
2) How is your gas milage?
I went through a few rounds getting things straight on my car. I can tell you that in my case it was not the tune or the tuner. I did all of the install so it was my fault ;^)
1) The first issue I had was that the heat shield was contactiing the down pipes. This was setting of the knock sensors and pulling timing. So check this.
2) The second issue was that even though my intercooler pump was working it was not bled properly and there was a lot of air bubbles in the coolant.
3) The third issue was that I had installed the L shaped O2 adapters on my secondary O2 sensors. This was causing the car to run rich. Once removed it was spot on.
4) The forth issue I had was that I pinched a vacum line coming off the rear of the motor. This line controls the waste gates.
So, how did I figure all this out? Logging data while driving. I used a plxdevices kiwi to log basic information (including codes). Then I added their wide band O2 module (I highly recommend you log via WideBand).
The first logs showed that my intake temps were high, my fuel was rich, timing was being pulled and boost was low. I started with the intake temps. Bled my intercoolers multiple times. The intake temps came down but it was still pulling timing. I checked that the downpipes were 'tight' and while under there I discovered the heat shield. Timing looked good after this. Then I read that I didn't need the L shape adaptors so I removed them and installed the 02 sensors directly. A/F ratios were no in the proper range. Chasing down the pinched line was a *****! Once I found it I replaced the line because I wasn't sure it was not leaking.
The car is an absolute beast. No way I can floor the throttle under 40mph and over 40 I still need to pedal to keep the tires from breaking loose. So, there is something wrong. I doubt it has anything to do with the tune. Check for the above issues, you likely have one or more of the same.
Hope this helps. DM me or post to this thread if you need help.
the tune is a speedriven off the shelf tune. the first time they flashed it, the car ran like crap. i sent it back and they put another tune on it, but for all i know its stock. i do know that my CEL is on (probably due to 02 sensors). should i do a dyno tune with someone (EC, speedriven, etc) in person or are these off the shelf flashes sufficient?
i also bought the IC pump from speedriven but i never installed it because it didnt appear to fit the car.
The downside to bleeding the 216 is the relay for the pump is in the SAM, not a normal exposed relay like on the 215/220. You have to command the pump on with DAS to get all the air out if you aren't vacuum bleeding. The pump will not run at idle normally, so even with the engine on it doesn't help.
You need a special apparatus to bleed the V12 correctly. Dealerships have it.
They have pressure bleed my IC system 3 times to get all the air out.
Most of the time with catless downpipes the secondary 02 are turned off any ways in the ECU. I would not worry about that.
in my case my CEL light is always on due to speedriven not turning it off in the tune, which is why i think they reflashed me to stock.
thanks for all the help guys. i am considering just having eurocharged tune the car on a dyno in orlando. Jerry says he can tune it remotely. thoughts?
italianjoe, i might have to let you borrow the car for a couple days so you can look her over. too sexy of a car to not run full power.
I can show you how my tune only 600 runs, there's no shortage of power. Your car should be faster than mine for any equal mod, and there's no way it's correct if you aren't getting wheelspin until 60mph.
I have a eurocharged flash tune, it works just fine. These cars are a known quantity, there's no special magic in the tune for a basically stock car. If you were changing turbos or something, then yeah get a custom tune. Up to that point, the gains will be minimal. Jerry is a great guy and will take care of you either way. I still need to send in my TCU for his flash.
I can definitely look the car over, just let me know.
Last edited by ItalianJoe1; 03-02-2017 at 07:09 PM.
in my case my CEL light is always on due to speedriven not turning it off in the tune, which is why i think they reflashed me to stock.
thanks for all the help guys. i am considering just having eurocharged tune the car on a dyno in orlando. Jerry says he can tune it remotely. thoughts?
italianjoe, i might have to let you borrow the car for a couple days so you can look her over. too sexy of a car to not run full power.
My rear O2 sensors were not turned off either. Do you have the hand held tuner? I have three tunes on my tuner. Stock, Modified, Race Gas. I would be surprised if another tune behaved differently. Check your intercooler pump before even thinking about a re-tune. My car ran worse than stock before I chased down the above issues. If your car has an issue all tunes will pull boost and timing to protect the engine.
My rear O2 sensors were not turned off either. Do you have the hand held tuner? I have three tunes on my tuner. Stock, Modified, Race Gas. I would be surprised if another tune behaved differently. Check your intercooler pump before even thinking about a re-tune. My car ran worse than stock before I chased down the above issues. If your car has an issue all tunes will pull boost and timing to protect the engine.
before i do anything i am checking the pump. i have the pump SD sold me anyway so i have to either figure out if this one will fit or buy something else. i think its Bosch. i have to go find it.
on a side note, how do you like the killer chiller? i have considered that as well. do you like it?
I can show you how my tune only 600 runs, there's no shortage of power. Your car should be faster than mine for any equal mod, and there's no way it's correct if you aren't getting wheelspin until 60mph.
I have a eurocharged flash tune, it works just fine. These cars are a known quantity, there's no special magic in the tune for a basically stock car. If you were changing turbos or something, then yeah get a custom tune. Up to that point, the gains will be minimal. Jerry is a great guy and will take care of you either way. I still need to send in my TCU for his flash.
I can definitely look the car over, just let me know.
Actually its the software. The facelift W216 computer is soooooooooo far more complex than the W215 its nuts. The tuning takes a special touch and some real time to do properly. There is no "shelf" tune for our version of these spectacular machines.
Do you know when the new ECU was introduced? 2007? 2012?
Thanks, Nick
The cars stability systems are much more sophisticated than the earlier cars. Plus their ability to adapt is greater and they do run a few more gizmos. I have been told the coding is just nuts over previous versions. Like Windows 10 vs Windows XP.
Ok then maybe the 15+ got those. The engine designation changed to M279 and it got another revised ECU, I guess the one on your cars is just a mid cycle change. I know the LCI 216 has some other neat features. I never keep track of what year changes what on the newer cars, it's always different and there's no logical reasons for a lot of it.
From a quick look, the SL got in in 2012, but the S/CL/S coupe didn't until 14-15.
Yeah, the CL65 has the 5 speed. In 2011, the 7 speed was added to the CL63, but not the '65. Don't think it could handle the torque of the '65, even though the '63 was no slouch. But I think once you got to 700lb-ft, the 7 speed started checking out unless it was modded, or at least that's my understanding.
Yeah, the CL65 has the 5 speed. In 2011, the 7 speed was added to the CL63, but not the '65. Don't think it could handle the torque of the '65, even though the '63 was no slouch. But I think once you got to 700lb-ft, the 7 speed started checking out unless it was modded, or at least that's my understanding.
The G65 was the first factory M275 mated to a 722.9 (7speed). So I think the torque handling is up to par on the newer transmissions.
02-28-2017, 03:11 PM
