C|C

It's already been confirmed the upcoming E63 sedan will lose the V8. The CLE63 is essentially the coupe version sibling.

Breaking down the 63's by class, it's only logical the CLE63 will remain a V6 with an added electric motor sporting the E Performance badge:

C63 V4 + E Performance

CLE63 V? + ???
E63 V6 + E Performance (planned)

S63 V8 + E Performance
SL63 V8 + E Performance
GT63 V8 + E Performance

*Sorry for flaming out the V8 hopes.

superswiss

Sadly, the CLE 63 will have the same 4 cylinder powertrain as the C63. The German dealer network has gotten the heads up on it and it's being reported in the German news that AMG is sticking to the M139 in the CLE 63.

W205C43PFL

Well, guess we can't have coupes if we want a six cylinder 63, it will have to be an E 63

Wig

If true, it's insane that the CLE53 gets a 6 cylinder, and the CLE63 gets the 4 cylinder that has been almost universally criticized.

alexasa

iTrader: (1)

As far as I'm concerned the 4 cylinder has been criticized for being in a 63 level car, not because it's not great.

It's absolutely adored in the CLA45, and even has been rated higher/better than the 5 cylinder Audi in that segment, which has a heap of character and sound.

The transmissions issues lately seem to have been more highly criticized portion of the drivetrain than the 4 cylinder itself. That mixed with some manufacturing issues has really given the 4 cylinder a hard time to stand on it's own in the new chassis.

AV1

Completely agree !

Even though the "numbers" are so much better looking for the M139L + P3 PHEV combination, it'll still look like a down grade to the 2 already released CLE 450 & 53 variants with inline 6 engines + mild hybrid...

AV1

I believe it has more to do with the whole P3 PHEV combination and how it all works together and all the other negative impacts it adds as a whole to the vehicle it's fitted to and not the M139L engine in isolation.

The M139L is a wonder of an engine no doubt and a further development of the current M139 in A Class AMG's.

I never thought I'd see the day where an OEM would build a mass production vehicle engine to those specifications, so kudos on them for that effort.

alexasa

iTrader: (1)

That too. It makes the whole conversation complicated and most people just summize it as 4 cylinder in AMG is bad.

superswiss

I suppose it somewhat depends on your perspective. While I had fun sliding the A45S around at the AMG Winter Driving event last year, to get all that power out of the M139 means a relatively large turbo, which means turbo lag the size of Texas. Off the line it's absolutely horrible. The Audi 5 cylinder has the same issue. The turbo lag is the worst part about these small displacement engines. The electric turbo and P3 system was supposed to cure it, but lag is the biggest complaint still about this powertrain. The almost instant throttle response of the M177 is one of the best parts about my C63. I loathed turbocharged engines for a long time coming from super responsive NA engines and the M177 is one of the few turbocharged engines I like, especially because one of AMG's design goals was to make it feel as close as possible to an NA engine. It doesn't have that typical power surge hockey stick response that most other turbocharged engines have, especially the small displacement engines such as the M139. In those engines, if you step on the throttle nothing happens until the turbo spools up and then the power surges disproportional to the throttle input. These performance hybrid powertrains are supposed to do torque fill and hide the turbo lag, but somehow AMG failed to accomplish this with the M139 + P3. The GT 63 S E Performance at least didn't have a problem with lag given that it uses the M177, but the 500+ lbs weight gain just ruined it.

W205C43PFL

not denying it is a good engine, after all the M139 in the A-Class was a successor to the M133 which was always praised for being the most powerful production four cylinder and won rewards as one of the best four cylinder engines. It also didn't exactly sound bad despite being a four cylinder and it was before all the regulations.

MB knows how to do both 8 and four cylinders right, we won't deny that.

It is just this complicated E Performance system that they haven't quite perfected yet. It also seems rushed but I guess they don't have a choice because they need a C 63 for the W206 (to compete in the segment instead of spending many years further developing the car and not releasing it) and they already abandoned plans for a V8 in the W206 a long time ago.

However there were praises of the drivetrain working well with the V8 in the S 63 E Performance so they are working their way there or perhaps the powertrain is better mated with the V8?

W205C43PFL

That got me curious, your thoughts of that A 45's M139 compared with the M133 predecessor?

AV1

All good points.

Last line caught my attention as I'm also curious as to why from all the reviews the same/similar V8 + P3 driveline in the new S63S E is so much better than that in the GT63S E 4dr...
Maybe because it's programmed towards luxury and not sporty, therefore the synergy between the 2 different powerplants does not mess up as much and also being a luxury transporter weight is not of concern ?

But leading on from there I'm really curious to see the outcome of the new GT63S E coupe and am hoping it too turns out good like the new S63S E and better than the GT63S E 4dr, it would make for a compelling DD for any 2dr coupe aficionado.

W205C43PFL

Could be, the additional development time AMG had with the S 63 E Performance over the GT Four Door 63 S E Performance could had helped as well.

superswiss

I've only driven the old CLA 45 once about 4 years ago. From what I remember, it didn't quite have the same excessive turbo lag, but in most people's eyes it was always a meh car. Honestly, I'm also not quite sure who thinks the current A 45 is a particularly great car. Chris Harris called it the worst AMG he had ever driven when it came out and he loves AMGs.

I'm sure they've ironed out a few things with the latest software and all. They did have quite a bit of time to do that since the GT 63 SE came out as their first attempt. However, as said, the S 63 is not exactly a car that somebody takes on a track. It weighs 5500 lbs and is essentially a straight line Autobahn rocket/barge. Going fast in a straight line with that much weight isn't particularly difficult. Just a matter of power. Wrestling it around a corner is a different story, but the S63 was never exactly a canyon carver, either. Reviewers also seem to like the new GLC 63 S E better than the C63, even though it has the same powertrain, but it also seems to suit an SUV that is already heavier better than a performance sedan and coupe. I suppose if the CLE 63 will really get the 4 cylinder it'll be interesting to see what people think and if AMG has at least ironed out some of the issues. The weight issue will still be there, though, but I'm curious if they managed to get rid of the lag. From what I understand, the C63 production has been put on ice for the moment, supposedly to iron out the issues that have been plaguing it, so will see how this evolves.

AV1

You are correct.

Just watched RBR's latest vid and review on the GT63S E and it was a very different story and outcome compared to when he reviewed it shortly after release.

He also mentioned a valid point that the GT 4dr being an older model was not designed with the P3 hybrid set up in mind, whereas all these newer models are so it looks like as they mature over time they could end up being rather good.

Porsche seems to have nailed it with their new Cayenne S E hybrid with V6 engine, but then Porsche is Porsche so a pinnacle result is not at all surprising

W205C43PFL

I did look up that video actually now that you mentioned it and found it, interesting points from him.

AV1

Looks like it's getting closer to the reveal of the CLE63 but still no solid info as to powertrain...

This newest mule is wearing the same overly fussy and ugly wheel rims that are standard on the CLE53, whereas previous mules under wraps were wearing the much nicer design as used on the new GT coupe.

I suppose we'll know everything in the next few months.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/2...e-232455.html#

C|C

"This is an interesting omission as previous spy photos of the CLE 63 S E Performance have shown a rather obvious charging door on the right rear bumper. We can also rule out this being an old CLE 53 prototype as it sports a squared off four-tailpipe exhaust system. More: 2025 Mercedes-AMG CLE Spotted In Mild 53 And Wild 63 Guises Given all of this, we’re left wondering if the CLE 63 will be offered with two different powertrains. It’s not unheard of as the SL is available in 63 and 63 S E Performance guise."

https://www.carscoops.com/2024/04/th...ew-phev-power/

AV1

Yes I noticed that also - it really is hard to guess what's underneath.

If they were going to use the powertrains of the new E Class AMG's there would be a charging port there.

My guess is that MB do not want a repeat of the uptake failure of the W206 C63SE and this vehicle is a "powered up" M256 that's in the CLE 53 and that will also be used in the upcoming E63 along with the P3 hybrid plug in pack.

It also explains why the release of this variant has taken so long since first seen years ago now, they obviously re-engineered it with a different powertrain.

superswiss

AMG has apparently killed the CLE 63 S E Performance and instead it's going to be a V8. This seems to confirm that the 4-banger E Performance CLE is no more. Article is in German, but I'm sure Google can translate it for those who don't speak German.

https://mbpassion.de/2024/04/strateg...it-4-zylinder/

W205C43PFL

Damage control and the right decision.

C|C

Wow, great find Swiss 👑👑👑

AV1

WOW - if true and actually going to happen !

There would have been no chance of this until not too long ago and makes total sense since the 2 variants below it are 6's.

It also puts some positivity back into the new upcoming E63 to also feature a V8 as that's the only real way to effectively compete with the new upcoming M5.

superswiss

It does seem to be real and would explain why the CLE 63 in the spy shots above lacks the charging door in the rear bumper. If I'm not mistaken, this was the same site that first broke the news about the W206 C63 getting a 4-cylinder.

W205C43PFL

I wonder if an E Performance model is still planned with the V8, sort of like the new GT 63 S E Performance that got announced yesterday? or was it the day before? I guess the drivetrain stays in the S 63 and GT 63 instead then.