Brake Upgrade experience
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 84
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From: UAE
CLK 63 BS
Brake Upgrade experience
Dear all,
i would like to open a new thread where we can all share our experience on the above matter. i will start with what i have done this far:
I am running Michelin pilot sport cup (semi-slicks) with much better grip than the Pirellis as i use the car for a daily driver and a track monster
Used Motul 660
Used SS lines
used Yellow stuff
still stock Rotors and calipers
ISSUES I AM FACING:
the brakes are good for two to maximum three laps and then the brake fade starts kicking in. i usually do 2 cool down laps and then start pushing again
RESEARCH:
- I have researched Brembo and they only have the GTR kit as a solution as the GT kit is comparable to to the stock. (that option is very expensive)
-checked with Performance friction (my Porsche friends spoke highly of there discs) but they don't make discs for the BS
- other options didn't really have recommendations attached i.e. someone who tried it and can vouch for it
WHAT I AM LOOKING FOR:
-I would like to feel a bigger bite on the brakes and be able to run them for maybe 5 laps before i start cooling them down.
-Any member (who tracks his car like he stole it) experience in the best way forward
i would like to open a new thread where we can all share our experience on the above matter. i will start with what i have done this far:
I am running Michelin pilot sport cup (semi-slicks) with much better grip than the Pirellis as i use the car for a daily driver and a track monster
Used Motul 660
Used SS lines
used Yellow stuff
still stock Rotors and calipers
ISSUES I AM FACING:
the brakes are good for two to maximum three laps and then the brake fade starts kicking in. i usually do 2 cool down laps and then start pushing again
RESEARCH:
- I have researched Brembo and they only have the GTR kit as a solution as the GT kit is comparable to to the stock. (that option is very expensive)
-checked with Performance friction (my Porsche friends spoke highly of there discs) but they don't make discs for the BS
- other options didn't really have recommendations attached i.e. someone who tried it and can vouch for it
WHAT I AM LOOKING FOR:
-I would like to feel a bigger bite on the brakes and be able to run them for maybe 5 laps before i start cooling them down.
-Any member (who tracks his car like he stole it) experience in the best way forward
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 478
Likes: 6
CLK63 AMG Black Series
I push myself for consistency and the limits of the car (stock suspension) on track days. I had fading issues with stock brake setup. IMHO, the stock steel rotors don't dissipate heat quick enough in between turns.
I have no issues with this setup for track days:
18" CCW one piece forged aluminum wheels
NITTO 555R2 (F:285/R:305)
Motul 660
SS lines
Yellow stuff (track day)
Red stuff (everyday street)
Stock calipers
GiroDisc (front and back)
I have no issues with this setup for track days:
18" CCW one piece forged aluminum wheels
NITTO 555R2 (F:285/R:305)
Motul 660
SS lines
Yellow stuff (track day)
Red stuff (everyday street)
Stock calipers
GiroDisc (front and back)
Banned
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,914
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From: San Diego, CA
a car
Girodiscs will help significantly and honestly I would look into a different compound pad, not saying that the EBC doesn't work for some folks but I have had the best luck with Endless ME20 or N05U compound myself.
I can even do SLS/C63BS sized rotors for the fronts if you feel you need a larger disc in the fronts.
Let me know if I can help you with pricing. I put together these brake packages for CLKBS guys a while ago:
https://mbworld.org/forums/clk63-bla...-packages.html
I can even do SLS/C63BS sized rotors for the fronts if you feel you need a larger disc in the fronts.
Let me know if I can help you with pricing. I put together these brake packages for CLKBS guys a while ago:
https://mbworld.org/forums/clk63-bla...-packages.html
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 84
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From: UAE
CLK 63 BS
Rotors look like the natural progression, However what type of Bite upgrade do i get. seems that Girodiscs will better the fade but bite?
an upgrade that comes for the CLK63 (not BS) by Brembo is an 8 piston Caliper with bigger rotors, that seems like a bigger bite to me but unfortunately its not compatible with the CLK BS. the kit is actually 1/3 the price of the GTR upgrade.
Does anyone know someone at Brembo? i checked that kit and it filts well on the original Rims and my upgraded HRE rims. the issue was the installation kit didn't match, the rotors and caliper fit the wheels though
an upgrade that comes for the CLK63 (not BS) by Brembo is an 8 piston Caliper with bigger rotors, that seems like a bigger bite to me but unfortunately its not compatible with the CLK BS. the kit is actually 1/3 the price of the GTR upgrade.
Does anyone know someone at Brembo? i checked that kit and it filts well on the original Rims and my upgraded HRE rims. the issue was the installation kit didn't match, the rotors and caliper fit the wheels though
Banned
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,914
Likes: 8
From: San Diego, CA
a car
Rotors look like the natural progression, However what type of Bite upgrade do i get. seems that Girodiscs will better the fade but bite?
an upgrade that comes for the CLK63 (not BS) by Brembo is an 8 piston Caliper with bigger rotors, that seems like a bigger bite to me but unfortunately its not compatible with the CLK BS. the kit is actually 1/3 the price of the GTR upgrade.
Does anyone know someone at Brembo? i checked that kit and it filts well on the original Rims and my upgraded HRE rims. the issue was the installation kit didn't match, the rotors and caliper fit the wheels though
an upgrade that comes for the CLK63 (not BS) by Brembo is an 8 piston Caliper with bigger rotors, that seems like a bigger bite to me but unfortunately its not compatible with the CLK BS. the kit is actually 1/3 the price of the GTR upgrade.
Does anyone know someone at Brembo? i checked that kit and it filts well on the original Rims and my upgraded HRE rims. the issue was the installation kit didn't match, the rotors and caliper fit the wheels though
I don't understand why you would think you need an 8 piston caliper for the front. The front caliper on these cars is more than sufficient for the track duty you are asking of the car. I can tell you right now you are suffering with your OEM discs which being the same part number left and right do not vent air properly on one side of the car.
Girodiscs would be a great next step for you and like I said if you feel you need a larger disc, I have adapters for the OEM calipers to run the SLS/C63BS front 390mm rotors.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 84
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From: UAE
CLK 63 BS
Which brake duct mod? Renntech? Or is another one out there? The renntech states u need the front diffuser for it to work and I don't want to play with aero at all as I think this is too much upgrade for me.
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Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 84
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From: UAE
CLK 63 BS
Initial bite is much better as well but again that is going to be very dependent on the pad compound you choose.
I don't understand why you would think you need an 8 piston caliper for the front. The front caliper on these cars is more than sufficient for the track duty you are asking of the car. I can tell you right now you are suffering with your OEM discs which being the same part number left and right do not vent air properly on one side of the car.
Girodiscs would be a great next step for you and like I said if you feel you need a larger disc, I have adapters for the OEM calipers to run the SLS/C63BS front 390mm rotors.
I don't understand why you would think you need an 8 piston caliper for the front. The front caliper on these cars is more than sufficient for the track duty you are asking of the car. I can tell you right now you are suffering with your OEM discs which being the same part number left and right do not vent air properly on one side of the car.
Girodiscs would be a great next step for you and like I said if you feel you need a larger disc, I have adapters for the OEM calipers to run the SLS/C63BS front 390mm rotors.
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From: MBworld
bone stock E55 AMG
u can either DIY or have shop make it for u...
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 478
Likes: 6
CLK63 AMG Black Series
I agree with Tal on this. Its the design of Girodisc venting and the pad compound that will make the most difference.
Also, MJ50 made a good point about a Do It Yourself brake air ducting and pad compound.
Definitely try these ideas before going larger rotor size. Bigger brakes doesn't necessarily mean better stopping or cooling, your tires can only handle so much stopping G-force.
Also, MJ50 made a good point about a Do It Yourself brake air ducting and pad compound.
Definitely try these ideas before going larger rotor size. Bigger brakes doesn't necessarily mean better stopping or cooling, your tires can only handle so much stopping G-force.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
From: UAE
CLK 63 BS
I agree with Tal on this. Its the design of Girodisc venting and the pad compound that will make the most difference.
Also, MJ50 made a good point about a Do It Yourself brake air ducting and pad compound.
Definitely try these ideas before going larger rotor size. Bigger brakes doesn't necessarily mean better stopping or cooling, your tires can only handle so much stopping G-force.
Also, MJ50 made a good point about a Do It Yourself brake air ducting and pad compound.
Definitely try these ideas before going larger rotor size. Bigger brakes doesn't necessarily mean better stopping or cooling, your tires can only handle so much stopping G-force.
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 22,052
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From: MBworld
bone stock E55 AMG
tell me about it i just finished my tires in 5 track days i think i have one more track day before i need to change them. Any way season is nearly finished and all this research is for next season. i am thinking of going Hoosier on my next tyre purchase though so i need to fix my brakes before i do this upgrade
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 84
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From: UAE
CLK 63 BS
Super Moderator
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 22,052
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From: MBworld
bone stock E55 AMG
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 84
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From: UAE
CLK 63 BS
Tyre rack advised me that Hoosier are coming up with a new set of tyres in the summer A7 I think that they think will be a notch up from the Michelin semi slicks. Why do you think I will need an upgrade? Let me phrase my question correctly:
Will I get a better track experience running Hoosier than the Michelin?
I might not get the maximum from the Hoosier I understand but will they be worse than the michelins?
Will I get a better track experience running Hoosier than the Michelin?
I might not get the maximum from the Hoosier I understand but will they be worse than the michelins?
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 22,052
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From: MBworld
bone stock E55 AMG
Tyre rack advised me that Hoosier are coming up with a new set of tyres in the summer A7 I think that they think will be a notch up from the Michelin semi slicks. Why do you think I will need an upgrade? Let me phrase my question correctly:
Will I get a better track experience running Hoosier than the Michelin?
I might not get the maximum from the Hoosier I understand but will they be worse than the michelins?
Will I get a better track experience running Hoosier than the Michelin?
I might not get the maximum from the Hoosier I understand but will they be worse than the michelins?
brakes, tires and suspension all work in conjunction...
i don't think stock suspension can handle slick tires...
yes, upgrading tires to slick will be better than semi slick, but u r not utilizing the tires to its fullest potential...
plus, slicks are toasted after 1-2 track days which can be $$$...
i'm not saying "don't do it" but they all need to be balanced...
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 478
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CLK63 AMG Black Series
IMHO with the current stock suspension setup, putting better tires on the car is only compensating for the lack of a correct suspension setup to the persons driving style and car's characteristics.
The KW V3 are setup with a linear shock dyno in the CLKBS from the factory. The KW's need to be tuned for the driving style and track scenario or replaced with a setup that can be easily tuned. Initially, I would increase the KW rebound settings to see how that effects your track times. Instruction are in the car's manual.
Next steps in my car's track setup is tuned shocks for better low/high speed (not car speed) dampening/rebound control and full KMAC front and rear suspension adjustments with camber plates for easy street to track adjustments.
As MJ50 said, brakes, tires, and suspension must work in unison to provide to best possible mechanical grip for contact between the car and track surface.
I would hold on changing tire brands until you dial in all the suspension settings. Also, look at doing these upgrades in stages to compare the differences. You need a baseline to start from to know if each change produces good or bad track results.
The KW V3 are setup with a linear shock dyno in the CLKBS from the factory. The KW's need to be tuned for the driving style and track scenario or replaced with a setup that can be easily tuned. Initially, I would increase the KW rebound settings to see how that effects your track times. Instruction are in the car's manual.
Next steps in my car's track setup is tuned shocks for better low/high speed (not car speed) dampening/rebound control and full KMAC front and rear suspension adjustments with camber plates for easy street to track adjustments.
As MJ50 said, brakes, tires, and suspension must work in unison to provide to best possible mechanical grip for contact between the car and track surface.
I would hold on changing tire brands until you dial in all the suspension settings. Also, look at doing these upgrades in stages to compare the differences. You need a baseline to start from to know if each change produces good or bad track results.
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From: Harbor City, CA
Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, BMW, MINI and more!
A slotted and vented rotor is a great option to invest in to help with keeping your brakes cooler on the track. We have an assortment of parts available on our site.
-Luccia
-Luccia
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 84
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From: UAE
CLK 63 BS
I have downloaded the PDFs for the Naca duct and will visit the guys at silber arrows to see which duct fits best before I start this job.
Links to the material:
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/category/NACA_Ducts
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 22,052
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From: MBworld
bone stock E55 AMG
http://www.ctbrakes.com/pads.asp?Mak...odel=CLK63_AMG
most track junkies use carbotech...
u can go with either XP12 front / XP10 rear or XP10 front / XP8 rear...
should be a noticeable upgrade from EBC Yellow...
most track junkies use carbotech...
u can go with either XP12 front / XP10 rear or XP10 front / XP8 rear...
should be a noticeable upgrade from EBC Yellow...
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 963
Likes: 58
From: USA
CL63 AMG
Racingbrake makes the best 2-piece rotors by far. Their patented cooling vane design keeps the rotors significantly cooler and the super hard steel alloy they use ensure super long life on track. Get rid of your stock single piece rotors, they are junk. Stock calipers are fine, no need to upgrade.
Also, I upgraded to the RacingBrake stainless steel brake lines and they are a huge improvement. Also, get rid of the yellow stuff pads, they are gimic pads. Racingbrake makes their own matched set of track pads.
Also, stop using Motul, all the real pros use Castrol SRF. It is the #1 brake fluid in the world... Not even Motul comes close to its performance. Also when Motul is done... It's done for good. Castrol SRF can bounce back and take way more abuse. No other fluid behaves like this.
And finally, drastically reduce rotating mass, it is your greatest enemy on track. I did a mass reduction review when I removed over 90 lbs of unsprung rotating mass. Needless to say it felt like I took 500lbs out of the cars weight. (Also search for the threads I posted on the subject entitled "mass reduction" in the ML63 section.)
I have done tons of full reviews on these and more, just do a search for threads I have started.
Hope that helps
Also, I upgraded to the RacingBrake stainless steel brake lines and they are a huge improvement. Also, get rid of the yellow stuff pads, they are gimic pads. Racingbrake makes their own matched set of track pads.
Also, stop using Motul, all the real pros use Castrol SRF. It is the #1 brake fluid in the world... Not even Motul comes close to its performance. Also when Motul is done... It's done for good. Castrol SRF can bounce back and take way more abuse. No other fluid behaves like this.
And finally, drastically reduce rotating mass, it is your greatest enemy on track. I did a mass reduction review when I removed over 90 lbs of unsprung rotating mass. Needless to say it felt like I took 500lbs out of the cars weight. (Also search for the threads I posted on the subject entitled "mass reduction" in the ML63 section.)
I have done tons of full reviews on these and more, just do a search for threads I have started.
Hope that helps
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
From: UAE
CLK 63 BS
Racingbrake makes the best 2-piece rotors by far. Their patented cooling vane design keeps the rotors significantly cooler and the super hard steel alloy they use ensure super long life on track. Get rid of your stock single piece rotors, they are junk. Stock calipers are fine, no need to upgrade.
Also, I upgraded to the RacingBrake stainless steel brake lines and they are a huge improvement. Also, get rid of the yellow stuff pads, they are gimic pads. Racingbrake makes their own matched set of track pads.
Also, stop using Motul, all the real pros use Castrol SRF. It is the #1 brake fluid in the world... Not even Motul comes close to its performance. Also when Motul is done... It's done for good. Castrol SRF can bounce back and take way more abuse. No other fluid behaves like this.
And finally, drastically reduce rotating mass, it is your greatest enemy on track. I did a mass reduction review when I removed over 90 lbs of unsprung rotating mass. Needless to say it felt like I took 500lbs out of the cars weight. (Also search for the threads I posted on the subject entitled "mass reduction" in the ML63 section.)
I have done tons of full reviews on these and more, just do a search for threads I have started.
Hope that helps
Also, I upgraded to the RacingBrake stainless steel brake lines and they are a huge improvement. Also, get rid of the yellow stuff pads, they are gimic pads. Racingbrake makes their own matched set of track pads.
Also, stop using Motul, all the real pros use Castrol SRF. It is the #1 brake fluid in the world... Not even Motul comes close to its performance. Also when Motul is done... It's done for good. Castrol SRF can bounce back and take way more abuse. No other fluid behaves like this.
And finally, drastically reduce rotating mass, it is your greatest enemy on track. I did a mass reduction review when I removed over 90 lbs of unsprung rotating mass. Needless to say it felt like I took 500lbs out of the cars weight. (Also search for the threads I posted on the subject entitled "mass reduction" in the ML63 section.)
I have done tons of full reviews on these and more, just do a search for threads I have started.
Hope that helps
Thanks for sharing your experience a lot of knowledge I would say
