PekkaH

I think even my tuner doesn't know for sure what the real big time limits are, but im not nowhere near ( I hope ) These engines and trans can handle this kind of power well when tuned right and taken care.

Before in this thread squantum said his TCU limits are set in 1200nm every gear. Mine are set in 1000nm in every gear. Before us Gardevski did beat his really big power M278 really lot and it did still hold. like +800hp and +1200nm.

Yes there could be a little difference in HP. Like our cars are rated stock 403hp or 408hv. In Finland that HP= horsepower is HV= hevosvoima So horse is hevonen in Finnish and power is voima. Now u learn Finnis language here my man! Heh

My car is now 608hp and 900nm crank.

Roop94

Great, now I know 4 languages lol.

608 at the crank, you sure? I believe that 608 is to the wheels with the AMG turbos. With stage 2 and e85, I'm rated at 580 at the crank. You should have that number on the wheels. Gardevski had 700+ to the wheels before he started adding Meth and even bigger turbos.

PekkaH

I was trying to write this out my earlier post. Because of that terrible heat we didn't want to drive pulls after pulls when fine tune the ECU power higher and kill my car on dyno. So we did TCU tune and some "base ECU versions" and one off those was 636hp 1048nm. We didn't leave even that on my car because tuner wasn't happy with that. We did leave really conservative really safe 608hp 900nm ECU on car for what im driving now. With that only 608hp/900nm I did Dragy that 0-60mph 3,41s time. Later when weather goes colder/normal tuner will finish the job and try to get out like 660hp-700hp range crank. That is the max crank hp what M157 turbos can offer me with pump gas.

You see here on high quality German tuner GAD motors website https://www.gad-motors.de/e63 There u can see what power and mods they are using and its crank horsepower what is there.

So yes im talking crank power. Gardevski crank power was something like 720hp if I remember correct. I think without Ethanol blending these M157 turbos can't produce so much power. Maybe the black boost intake will help too. I think with pump gas the max is 700hp range. It depends of course the dyno also. Some dynos read low some real high.. So the best way to see how good our cars perform is Dragy. With that we can see world wide our fellow enthusiast 0-60mph and 1/4 mile times and compare how's our cars are doing.

Please Dragy your cars 0-60mph and 1/4 mile so we can compare someday.

Roop94

I must have read his post wrong. I went back to check, I believe his #s were 700+ engine power, not to the wheels. He went with Meth to get to near 800. I kept thinking he was 700 to the wheels. So my dyno read was at 575hp at engine. So if I want to spend an extra 5-6k on a turbo upgrade, it better gives at least an additional 100 wheel hp lol.

I was emailing Jerry at Eurocharged and he said he can get the car to 700whp with M157 turbos AND E85. But, if I do the turbo upgrade, I might go with a custom dyno tune. Bc one guy on a Facebook group is running 545whp with just Stage 2 custom dyno tune on 93 gas. That is like 630-640 engine hp. I'm lowkey disappointed with the only 500whp on 91 gas + E85 lol.

I was thinking to get the draggy device. Is this the one or are there different models and such:
https://www.dragy.ca/products/dragy-...BoCNb8QAvD_BwE

PekkaH

Yes, now we are in the same page man.

With E85 blends there are really big gains as u say and have talked with Jerry. If our cars were flex fuel cars from factory and could adapt automatically E85 and pump gas I would gone the E85 blends straight away now. Even my old Saab is flex fuel car and its 14 years old.. My Saab have now bigger turbo, injectors, fuel pump, 3"DP etc. but thats a different story.. Lool

What turbo is that 545whp stage 2 93 gas custom dyno tune guy using? It have to be M157 turbo not M278 turbo, right?

Yes that's the Dragy.

Roop94

I have seen people run E85 fuel upto 50% ethanol content, technically E50, in the C218 platform without any issues. One guy I follow on IG is planning to go full-time on E85 for which he will replace certain parts, of course. But I believe the E85 can give us 50-100whp if tuned properly. Which is why i am going to do a custom dyno tune when i do the turbo swap and throw in the e85 to get to the desired number i want lol
I'm really rooting for ~650whp when i do the upgrade. And run it till it dies after 5 years lol

Damn, how much power you got in that killer Saab? lol

So I just asked him if he has stock or M157 turbos, but on his write-up, this is what he mentioned:
It produced 545whp and 590ftlbs utilizing obx Downpipes and k&n drop in filters tuned on Hptuners running 93 octane. I am planning to return this month to tune of e40 after I install my aftermarket heat exchanger, split cooling mod and home made intake spacers.

PekkaH

Without any questions the E85 blends have get the M157/M278 platform further. Like all Guys with CLS/E AWD M157 AMG and ethanol/supporting mods. +TCU tune etc. can go 0-60mph about/under 3.s and 1/4 mile under 11.s Best are running 0-60 like 2.7s and 1/4 mile 10,4s. Those are really high power cars and only with these M157 stock turbos. Thats what ethanol can do Custom tune would always be the best option, every car is a little different and on those power levels me personally don't want to try any " mail box " ECU just custom to my car. I think your goal is realistic and you can reach that with M157 turbos.

My current Saab doesn't have so much power. Like 280hp crank. Its my winter time car. One Saab that I had before was really fast car. It made 430hp crank with fwd Oh boy it was funny car to accelerate. It did spin the tire first, second and even third gear.. Lool. On highway speeds it was really nice. And that car was only pump gasoline.

PekkaH

I did Dragy today with this just base 608hp/900nm crank ECU tune.

1/4 Mile 11.24s and trap speed 126mph
0-60 3,39s

1/4 mile was a little too much slope -1,17 and 0-60 was valid. These times can tell what M157 turbos can do with our cars. After ECU fine tune session I hope times will be even better.

Roop94

Damn, those are sweet numbers.

Question, which car did you get the turbos from? Or does the car even matters or as long as the turbos are from the M157 engine? Was it a direct bolt-on fit or needed some modification? Any issues during installation?

PekkaH

Thanks Roop94. I think right one was CL63 and left E63, so I believe that CL63, CLS63, E63 turbos will fit for sure and quite sure that all M157 turbos does fit and do the job for you. Didn't you bought the M157 turbos?

It was direct bolt on, no issues on turbo install at all. In 4 Matic the engine must go down and all off on the front like bumper, lights, air condition etc, so a really big job still. Like said before one good Mercs shop did it for me, I haven't that much skill or tools what so ever to do that. But its worth it. Love how the car is now going. And the TCU is really must to do, soo nice!

Remember that u need the M157 fuel pump and fuel filter/FPR side too if u want all the power what those bigger turbos can deliver.

On this topic there are listed all gasket numbers etc. what I did need, u can check those if u like.

Roop94

I see. That's good to hear that they are a direct fit. Didn't need to play around with the manifold or anything?

No, I haven't bought them yet. I was looking at a pair, but they came off a 2011 S63 AMG, but the card had burn damage. Seems like the burn was on top of the engine through the hood. From the pictures, the turbos look untouched. But I am now unsure if I should get them or not.

I've emailed a local tuning shop and asked them a few questions for staying on stock turbos and maybe I will be able to get around 550-580whp with E85. If I can get close to 580whp...I might stay with stock turbos. The amount of $ and time I would need to invest in the mods to upgrade isn't in my favor to spend $6k (that is if I buy new VRP turbos). Used M157 can be done in less, but I'm a bit afraid that a bad piece of turbo could mess me up big time if not done right or turbo end up being faulty a year or two years later. Just a bit paranoid lol

PekkaH

Yes direct bolt on with turbos.

Good luck what ever route you choose to go!

rusher

Hey Scott!

I have a 2011 CLS550 with the aim to get it faster, too.

Currently I have done:
-M157 Turbos
-catless downpipes & straightpiped exhaust
-split IC mod
-K&N filters

How did you mod the IC pump to get it on at all times? I don't have the relay next to the expansion tank like the newer models.
And what kind of TCU tune are you running? I need that too

I have the M157 fuel pumps lying around but I don't see the necessity to install them yet?

Thanks Rod

mishorar

Just finished ecu tuning on my car with amg turbos, it runs 7.6 sec with very high intake temps (50c+) and fuel europe 98 oct. With proper cooling and e10 fuel excepting to run at least 6.8 and lower.

100-200 kmh run win cooling problems

PekkaH

Hi.

Nice to hear that you have done the turbo swap also. Can you tell what problems you have with cooling and what kind of power is in the car now? Any dyno?

I have run 100-200km/h in 7,49 Dragy and 608hp crank power.

mishorar

currently i have dtk style heat exchanger which isn't good enough after turbo upgrade planning to swap it with v-tech unit because it can cool down intake much better also going to add second bosch 010 pump for higher flow. About power i have no idea, currently i run 23psi boost until intake goes high, around 160kmh car starts lowering boost, as intake temp rises, boost goes down at 16 17 psi to protect engine. About dyno
With this tune my car hasn't been on dyno, previous tuner which also had dyno, failed to tune my car with turbo upgrade it was overboosting🤦‍♂️, so went with another tuner and he got the job done but he didn't have dyno.

PekkaH

What heat exchanger are you talking about? The main heat exchanger what is located with main radiator and air condition rad? Or do you have extra heat exchanger on bumper?

Can you please write a link so I can see that V-tech unit?

I think there are not space anywhere to add second Bosch 010 pump, that was my plan to do also. .

Maybe your original 010 Bosch is not working like it should, and temps will rise too much. My 010 was bad and I did replace it with turbo swap. I have also extra heat exchanger on bumper and connected to IC system jus after 010 Bosch and then to main IC. My intake temps are holding quite well down and no ignition timing pulls. These cars suffer heat sokes when that cooling liquid gets really hot.. like on really hot days +30c and driving slow.

rusher

What is the critical intake temperature for ECU to lower boost?
I have now separated IC from main rad and under normal driving I have around 50C, racelogic runs go up to 65C (outside 30C)
But 100-200 run I have power cuts after some hard acceleration

How do get 63 AMG remapped to 700hp with stock cooling?
Only AMG S Model has the extra radiator in the wheel arch + bigger pump.

PekkaH

I don't know what is the critical intake temp for retard timing and lower boost. If your intake temps are already +20c over ambient temperature on normal driving situation its really high..

Yes, only S-models have that extra HE and connected to IC system, but you can do it also. I have done it. My car is facelift so my bumper is bigger and helps the airflow to extra HE. Add an extra heat extra heat exchanger on bumper and connect it to IC cooling system, not on main rad system, buy new IC pump, use water wetter.

rusher

OK, I get you.
I already have CWA100 pump lying around
Waiting for tinyCWA controller, will run the pump autonomously

I also have the facelift bumper.
How is your experience with small radiator on the side? What are your intake temps?
I was thinking to put 2nd large radiator in front of aircon condenser, like gardevski did in his build.

PekkaH

Im looking forward to see how that CWA100 pump will work with that controller on your car. Please let me know, would be great! As you know the original Bosch 010 is only with + and- wires and that CWA100 is three wires and some kind of pulse driven. Because of that I didn't go for it for now.

My extra original AMG HE on bumper did add about 0,5liter liquid on IC system. If u use Alpha it would add 33% more (based on their website.) My intake temps are 7c-10c over ambient when on cruising speed. I have a switch and I can force the IC pump to run all the time if I want so. On dyno last time there was terrible +38c heat and we did run three times. Highest intake temp reading was like +57c when hitting rev. limiter on fourth gear. Still no knock, or ignition timing or boost pulls by ECU. So my cooling will work like it should. I do not track this heavy car, so I will be fine with it for now. I use OBDlink MX+.

Yes that could be one solution to do like gardevski. Theres oil cooler on way but maybe you can manage to do that.

One way or another these M157 and M278 cars will suffer heat sokes on ++30c days when on slow driving and liquid temp will rise and really slow to cool down or sitting hood closed and after then driving and liquid get really warm.

rusher

I understand now why GAD motors put holes in bonnet for 1000+hp on CLS 63 )))


Yeah, the CWA pump has PWM signal for different rpm.
I got the pump from an Audi Q7 for like 100 Euro or so )))
The tinyCWA should be a great thing if it works as advertised.
Unfortunately they will resume deliveries only in September.

7-10degrees over ambient is also not too great for cruising.

PekkaH

Good luck with that pump project!

What comes to my intake temps always could do better but my temps are not causing any power reducing problems and car runs fine so that enough for me for now.

mishorar

https://www.facebook.com/VtechTuningService/ you can check out their fb page, they have products for m278 models.
my tuner has done additional 010 pumps on m157 and says he can do the same on m278, he said my cooling radiator is the problem because of it's design it can't cool down water good enough for high boost, i have put my custom 4.5L cooling radiator upfront just behind the bumper atm. Will post updated 100-200 run after around 25th august with new cooler and additional pump.

PekkaH

Okay thanks. I was really trying to find a place where I can add the second pump but I didn't figure out the place for it. If you can put two pumps and that huge 4.5l extra radiator it should work great!

I will have my final custom ECU tune session in mid. September. Lets see how much power the shooting brake can produce then. After that I can also Dragy 0-60mph, 100-200km/h and 1/4 mile again.

Have u think about the TCU tune? I think it would be must to your set up too.

I will send you a PM later.