So how much of your asking price will your dealer be willing to finance for a well qualified customer and at what rate and duration?

 

The problem is the increasing entitlement school of thought: "I have a God's given right to purchase anything I want at a discount (so I can make a profit on it sooner or later), anyone who wants more for his property then I am willing to pay is a greedy stealer!"

 

I'm almost certain that no one here is mad, we were laughing at the absurdity of it, and those who perpetuate the practice.


You sure like your strawmen.

 

Well that would all depend on your credit and what a bank would approve you at. You can't finance the sales premium though so it would be at least $150k cash. Most banks will go 72 months - some even 84 month terms. The rate we wouldn't know until we submitted.

 

Well that would all depend on your credit and what a bank would approve you at. You can't finance the sales premium though so it would be at least $150k cash. Most banks will go 72 months - some even 84 month terms. The rate we wouldn't know until we submitted.

 

Thanks for making my exact point I posted up thread.

Jerry

 

Well the GT Black Series has officially arrived. Currently there are 14 GT Blacks on the car sites.
Some are at MSRP and a few have large premiums.

Things ought to get interesting over the next several weeks as the backlog in Germany is reduced and more cars are here at US dealers.

Stay tuned.

 

Serge,

Thanks for your post; I agree with much of what you say, although the irony of your penultimate sentence I found quite funny! lol

The issue for me is this: I agree that the ‘market’ can sort out what a vehicle may or may not be worth, but the ‘market’ price is being deliberately warped when dealers are allowed to increase the price vastly over MSRP. When a manufacturer produces a limited edition vehicle I believe they should increase the MSRP versus dealership cost ratio so that the dealership enjoys a greater profit; BUT the dealership should be forced to sell at the elevated MSRP without exception. This then increases the chances for those individuals wishing to buy the car who either can’t, or won’t be willing to pay approximately 25% to 50% over MSRP.

So now the argument becomes: ‘well a buyer can then immediately ‘flip’ the car and make a huge profit’. That’s true, but again if the vehicle is sold at MSRP there is a greater pool of individuals able/willing to buy from the dealership and hence more competition for the flippers in getting the vehicle in the first place. Also, when buying a car the manufacturer should state that if it is flipped within say 12-24 months, that buyer will be forbidden from buying their future limited edition products. This is different than the Ford GT issue when they tried to legally forbid someone from selling once they had purchased the car. Here the manufacturer is not legally forbidding a buyer from selling the car on in the open market immediately after taking delivery; rather they have the right to refuse to sell to an individual in the future.

Eventually the market will get the chance to determine the value of a limited edition, but many flippers won’t have the patience and/or capital to wait 12/24 months; so maybe they can just invest in Bitcoin for a quick buck! lol

 

manufacurerSUGGESTEDretailprice. The addendum only exists to ensure a speculator/flipper isn’t buying just to sell it. Look at the secondary market for G63’s, thats been going on since their launch. Someone is going to get that extra money. Don’t get mad at the addendum when most of us have bought below the MSRP. 📈📉. Can’t have it both ways. The gentleman taking delivery from my dealership is planning on tracking his 🤷‍♂️

 

Honestly bud I don't have it in me to get too deep into the weeds with this topic, not only because I know you know all this, but also because again to me getting bothered by a dealer asking for adm is intellectually convenient because they are easy target, when in fact the root of the issue is somewhere else. Also because people are asking a business to do something that they would almost never do themselves in their own lives.

'Limited edition' is just a euphemism for scarcity management for marketing reasons. There's very few corporations that will sell less widgets than people will buy. When they do, it should be a red flag to everyone that by leaving money on the table in one hand means that they believe it will lead to them making a lot more money in the other, not that there's some sort of purist altruism to keep those widgets in the hands of those whom might most appreciate them ... like making sure 3RSs are going to customers who will track them. The BS like many so called LE cars, numbered or not, are marketing exercises to create brand desirability that trickles down to their mass produced products. I don't have it handy but read the interview the head of Patek did a couple of years ago as to why they don't produce more stainless steel Nautiluses/Aquanauts when the result of them making so few of them means that they're selling at over 300% over msrp on the secondary market, in the process pissing a lot more people off than any dealer and adm ever has. He is keenly aware that it's happening and has no interest in increasing production. That's because the pent up demand creates exclusivity for his brand that generates more revenue selling all the boring *** dress watches that almost no one really wants but is their only option to get into the brand, so in the end their entire inventory gets sold and the brand has guaranteed customers for the next century. Same with Ferrari, a brand that has a policy of doing exactly what some are clamoring for and selling every new model at msrp. Yet most people I know would have gladly forked over $100k more for the car they wanted via an upfront adm rather than losing two to three times that much in the depreciation of the all models they were made to buy on their way to getting allocations for that 'limited edition' car. So the idea that if all dealers sold at msrp it would mean that anyone with the funds could get the cars for msrp and that the effective adm disappears as a result is silly. Shlt just on the Black Series threads here we have dealers coming in trying to flip their own customer's cars pretending they are dealer orders and splitting the premium after the flip.

What is happening with these cars, this very conversation, is exactly what these brands are looking for ... ie people getting frustrated that the brand won't take their money and that the customer has to compete for their products rather than the brand competing for the customer's money. It's infuriatingly brilliant. Fundamentally that's what most people object to, because psychologically speaking if something has a price and they are willing to pay it, if they can't get it, it becomes a personal affront because they interpret that as some corporation telling them they're not good enough. Dealer hate becomes low hanging fruit at that point in the hurt feeling rev meter. Still, all of this is by design by the manufacturer, so if wasted feelings need be oriented anywhere, point and shoot in that direction.

Again, unless you have a direct line to a special watch or car or widget allocation thorough existing relationships it's like playing whack a mole as to where you're going to pay the premium. What does it matter if it's a dealer adm, or a customer flipping, or buying stuff you don't want to get to the stuff you do, or whatever construct? That person will pay market value to someone.

Round and round this conversation goes and short of a recession, nothing can or will change this dynamic when scarcity is managed and demand is undersupplied by a manufacturer. The only influence one can have on the equation is to exercise their free will and not bite.

When are we getting together on track?

 

I have to assume that the folks who are defending ADMs have 0 qualms with folks who scalp tickets, shoes, computer components/chips, home electronics, etc. I also wonder how the dealers in countries that are not allowed to scal... add ADM, "survive".

It would be very interesting to see how many of those defending these practices are people who currently, or previously, worked at/owned dealerships.



Wasn't this how allocations were given in the first place? So it's not merely one or the other. Giving allocations to brand loyal buyers is perfectly reasonable imo.



At the end of the day it's allowed here in the US, so it is what it is, and people are silly enough to pay that tax to keep the practice alive. It really doesn't affect me in the slightest, as I'm not someone that buys any vehicle new.

 

”When are we getting together on track? “

When I can buy a ****ing 992 GT3 Touring at MSRP!!! lol

Bish

 

Candidly many dealers did not want to fool or risk going thru the process of attempting a Special Order Color request, only to potentially have delays with getting the order fulfilled.

This is actually different! You are referring to the 50 GTBS that were allocated to select VIP Clients. The dealers that received those allocated PO's had to sign a contract with MB USA that the car is to be offered to the selected VIP Client at MSRP. If not, MB USA had the right to revoke the allocation. And Yes MBUSA also reserved the right to pull back the allocated unit if the client elected to not take the vehicle.

 

Did everything I could to order paint to sample and went up as high as possible with MBUSA and was told NO and that it is final. I even asked about the paint to samples out there and they stated it was for the Project One owners only.

 

Burt:

Where is your Black now? On the water?

Hopefully it won’t be long for you now.

Best regards

Jerry

 

it was released to shipper on the 12th with the rest of them. Should be here any day per Benz.

 

@JSwan724 there's plenty listed for MSRP, but are the dealerships actually only asking MSRP? I know most have massive ADM's, absurdly massive just like everything else in the market currently

 

Mine must be awaiting parts. Ostensibly built in March but still not assigned a ship. Sigh.

 

You will NOT find any BS cars available at MSRP.

 

IF your seriously interested, get your financing lined up and be ready to close. Then contact a few MSRP dealers to see if they will do a deal.

They can only say NO.

Good hunting.

 

Sorry but that’s definitely NOT true.

Many of the members here have inbound BLACKS that are MSRP.

 

Yes,INBOUND that was already allotted to a client months/years ago. I am talking about cars that are on dealers lots or incoming to them WITHOUT. ....No way a stealership is going to sell a client-less BS at MSRP,lol

 

@57 GTR Let me be clear I understand most/99.9% of the dealers won't sale at MSRP without an ordered/allocated car and the majority of the advertised cars at msrp are a bait and switch. I've bought multiple AMG's 4 last year in the pandemic.... (I've had GTS, GTR, GT63s, GTR PRO, G63's, C63's blah blah) mostly local and some with other dealers, but the competition locally is too stiff for me too compete with others, the out of state dealers I bought cars with didn't receive an allocation.... In this hot car market, I get it......but loyalty to the brand doesn't matter in today's market and probably won't matter going forward with how dealers will be carrying inventory etc...

 

Stay Tuned……

 

do you think they will be sold off the showroom floor at MSRP ?