95 E300 fuel lines...
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From: Temecula, CA
Tesla model S
95 E300 fuel lines...
So I have the well discussed issue of weeping fuel lines, the car starts like usual then dies within seconds, I can smell fuel like crazy when she's sitting in the garage, etc. My MB tech just told me it needs a new heat exchanger, that it and the plastic line going to it is leaking. He then noted that while not all of the fuel lines are leaking if he goes in there he will replace all 6 lines and 6 o-rings.
I've done many a hard job on this car, I'm assuming this is a simple enough job to do? I'm also assuming the heat exchanger and fuel lines/O-rings are dealer only items which is not a problem, I just want to ensure I order the right parts before diving in - any guidance from those of you that have done this job before? My tech wants $750 parts and labor for all of this.
Thanks - Toby
I've done many a hard job on this car, I'm assuming this is a simple enough job to do? I'm also assuming the heat exchanger and fuel lines/O-rings are dealer only items which is not a problem, I just want to ensure I order the right parts before diving in - any guidance from those of you that have done this job before? My tech wants $750 parts and labor for all of this.
Thanks - Toby
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From: Bay Area, CA
09' E320
Here are the size of the orings for your engine and the counts needed for mine. You'll need a few less, but by looking can figure out how many of each from the counts and sizes provided.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...d.php?t=177588
The fuel thermo (heat exchanger?) is a low fail part. I'd spray it and everything around it clean with a full can of brake cleaner first, then run it 15 minutes and feel by hand for where the leak is comming from as a first step.
Chances are if it dies after being started that its the pre-filter, its oring, or the oring seal at the line from the thermo to the prefilter as those are all on the suction side of the lift pump. Is possible it is the oring behind the shutoff valve too.
When it runs, if you shut it down does it shut off immediately or does it turn off 1/4 or 1/2 sec after the key is turned?
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...d.php?t=177588
The fuel thermo (heat exchanger?) is a low fail part. I'd spray it and everything around it clean with a full can of brake cleaner first, then run it 15 minutes and feel by hand for where the leak is comming from as a first step.
Chances are if it dies after being started that its the pre-filter, its oring, or the oring seal at the line from the thermo to the prefilter as those are all on the suction side of the lift pump. Is possible it is the oring behind the shutoff valve too.
When it runs, if you shut it down does it shut off immediately or does it turn off 1/4 or 1/2 sec after the key is turned?
Thread Starter
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From: Temecula, CA
Tesla model S
It turns off pretty immediately. He told me the heat exchanger was just soaking wet - so you could be right about not needing a new one, he just knows there is a lot of leakage around that part.
TM - set me straight on something. I always thought the IM was the big aluminum looking thing across the top of the motor. My mech was saying how thats not the hard thing to remove and the the IM is what that aluminum piece attaches to and thats where the labor/cost comes into play with this job. I've done a ton of work on this beast myself, I've just never removed that IM / aluminum piece and done any work in there.
I'd like to try a repair with all of the o-rings , gaskets, and new lines and leave that heat exchanger in and see if those items will give me a leak free car for awhile.
TM - set me straight on something. I always thought the IM was the big aluminum looking thing across the top of the motor. My mech was saying how thats not the hard thing to remove and the the IM is what that aluminum piece attaches to and thats where the labor/cost comes into play with this job. I've done a ton of work on this beast myself, I've just never removed that IM / aluminum piece and done any work in there.
I'd like to try a repair with all of the o-rings , gaskets, and new lines and leave that heat exchanger in and see if those items will give me a leak free car for awhile.
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From: Bay Area, CA
09' E320
Yours is set up a bit diff than mine.
Yours has a crossover pipe, and an IM. #29 & 5 respectively. http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.asp...SGR=030&SGN=02
Both need to come off and both are easy to remove. Shouldn't take much more than an hour to remvoe the first time. 20 minutes the second time. You'll need a new IM gasket. Torque is 20 NM. Removing both will allow you easy access to all the fuel lines.
The up stream end of the fuel thermo has a rubber fuel line clamped to it. It's possible thats where your leak is comming from too. Replacing that portion of line would be easy with the IM and crossover off.
If you remove both, you'll want to clean both up. they'll be full of oily crud. Hot dipping in a parts cleaning tank or steam cleaning works best. A machine shop can do the former for you.
Sounds like your mechanic is talking ablut removal of the cyl head; that has nothing to do with your fuel leak. The IM provides air to the valves in the head. You might want to find another mech that you communicate better with???
Yours has a crossover pipe, and an IM. #29 & 5 respectively. http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.asp...SGR=030&SGN=02
Both need to come off and both are easy to remove. Shouldn't take much more than an hour to remvoe the first time. 20 minutes the second time. You'll need a new IM gasket. Torque is 20 NM. Removing both will allow you easy access to all the fuel lines.
The up stream end of the fuel thermo has a rubber fuel line clamped to it. It's possible thats where your leak is comming from too. Replacing that portion of line would be easy with the IM and crossover off.
If you remove both, you'll want to clean both up. they'll be full of oily crud. Hot dipping in a parts cleaning tank or steam cleaning works best. A machine shop can do the former for you.
Sounds like your mechanic is talking ablut removal of the cyl head; that has nothing to do with your fuel leak. The IM provides air to the valves in the head. You might want to find another mech that you communicate better with???
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From: Temecula, CA
Tesla model S
Well to be fair this guy is pretty good, I'm trying to relay what he told me through to you and, well you get it. I would like to try this job myself - any fuel pressurization or bleed issues I need to work through? I figure if I can change out suspension components and the blower motor and blower motor regulator I can do this - I need a good diagram first to get all the parts that might need to be changed while I'm in there. I've been wanting to clean that IM anyway!
I believe I have an engine diagram from performance parts - I'll start studying that thing plus the one above - thanks TM, keep checking back with me if you don't mind.
Toby
I believe I have an engine diagram from performance parts - I'll start studying that thing plus the one above - thanks TM, keep checking back with me if you don't mind.
Toby
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From: Temecula, CA
Tesla model S
Hey TM, I need some guidance on ordering the parts I need. When it comes to the fuel lines themselves, I thought there were the leaking hard plastic or rubber lines that need to be replaced - what are these called excactly? I mean I don't need to buy the hard lines that go from the injector pump to the injectors - do I? I assumed I need the o-rings and copper washers that are at the end of the fuel lines but not the hard lines themselves. Having not been under there yet I'm struggling with the visual of what I need. Thanks - Toby
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From: Bay Area, CA
09' E320
You need to replace the orings I posted previously, or to buy new IP/Fuel filter fuel lines. There are 5 or 6 of them and they are all clear plastic with pressed on fittings on each end.
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Thread Starter
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Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Temecula, CA
Tesla model S
Thanks - Toby
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From: Bay Area, CA
09' E320
Here's your EPC, my engine uses differrent parts: http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb1.asp?TP=1&F=124131&VIN=
See section 07, subsection 120. The lines from the dealer come with orings attached. The prefilter oring is separate.
See section 07, subsection 120. The lines from the dealer come with orings attached. The prefilter oring is separate.
Thread Starter
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From: Temecula, CA
Tesla model S
Thanks TMA - I got them ordered today, hopefully I'll be in the garage this weekend making it happen!
Thanks - Toby
Thanks - Toby
Last edited by OJ's DNA; Dec 2, 2009 at 04:13 PM.
Thread Starter
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From: Temecula, CA
Tesla model S
Okay so I got the job done - new pre-heater with gasket, all plastic fuel lines, both fuel filters, etc - everything went well in terms of fitment, I didn't crush or force anything into place, etc. But this morning I woke up to start her up for the first time and obviously I have no fuel in the lines or filter so my question is is there a more efficient way of 'getting' fuel up there instead of trying to crank the motor 500 times in a row?
Thanks - Toby
Thanks - Toby
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From: Bay Area, CA
09' E320
+1/2 tank of fuel, rear end a couple of inches higher than the front, prefill canister filter and especially the prefilter cavity with fuel.
Crank 30secs at a time to prime. Wait 30 secs, crank 30 again. After 3 cycles give it 15 minnutes to cool the starter. Start again.
If it seems like it wants to catch, keep cranking....crank 2-3 secs after you think it has caught. Wont hurt the starter.
Crank 30secs at a time to prime. Wait 30 secs, crank 30 again. After 3 cycles give it 15 minnutes to cool the starter. Start again.
If it seems like it wants to catch, keep cranking....crank 2-3 secs after you think it has caught. Wont hurt the starter.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 253
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From: Temecula, CA
Tesla model S
+1/2 tank of fuel, rear end a couple of inches higher than the front, prefill canister filter and especially the prefilter cavity with fuel.
Crank 30secs at a time to prime. Wait 30 secs, crank 30 again. After 3 cycles give it 15 minnutes to cool the starter. Start again.
If it seems like it wants to catch, keep cranking....crank 2-3 secs after you think it has caught. Wont hurt the starter.
Crank 30secs at a time to prime. Wait 30 secs, crank 30 again. After 3 cycles give it 15 minnutes to cool the starter. Start again.
If it seems like it wants to catch, keep cranking....crank 2-3 secs after you think it has caught. Wont hurt the starter.
One last thing - how do I know what position the dial should be at thats on top of the fuel filter? I know it goes up and down and allows fuel to come through the hole inside the bolt but how do I know where to have that thing?
Last edited by OJ's DNA; Dec 6, 2009 at 03:09 PM.
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From: Bay Area, CA
09' E320
Ya got me on that one...... The W210 606's don't have that kill buton, just a bolt where you have yours. We have to pull a fuse to stop ours.
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From: Federal Heights, CO
1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
W210 injection pumps are totally computer controlled, they cannot run on their own without the computer or an external fuel source through the intake. If removing the key does not turn it off you have a bad ignition switch.
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From: Bay Area, CA
09' E320
Its in the OM if it interests you further.
Thread Starter
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From: Temecula, CA
Tesla model S
Man, I just realized my injection pump might have a manual primer on it - I don't think you guys with the W210 606 diesels have this same injection pump, I have to go home and check - if I did would it look like a push button, a handle, what?
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From: Bay Area, CA
09' E320
Check the suction side (1-3) of the fuel path for leaks. http://bp3.blogger.com/_p71v9ofBM6w/...h/fuelflow.JPG
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Tesla model S
Victory! Well I checked the pre-filter TM and sure enough I didn't have an 0-ring on there, I had a brand new one so I put it one and I got some advice from a mech I know, he said to hold down the pedal all the way to the floor and that would allow maximum fuel to get through the pump. Sure enough about 10 min later I had her started. Thanks for all the help friend, Toby.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Bay Area, CA
09' E320
Victory! Well I checked the pre-filter TM and sure enough I didn't have an 0-ring on there, I had a brand new one so I put it one and I got some advice from a mech I know, he said to hold down the pedal all the way to the floor and that would allow maximum fuel to get through the pump. Sure enough about 10 min later I had her started. Thanks for all the help friend, Toby.
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From: Federal Heights, CO
1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
The 95 fuel system is different from the 96-99. It has no computer control except for bumping up idle speed and they changed a bunch of small bits with the switch to computer control.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ9uqm2nsgE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js4AsFm9plk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni09-_CHrfs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQZ5_-RG-DE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ9uqm2nsgE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js4AsFm9plk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni09-_CHrfs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQZ5_-RG-DE
Last edited by 240D 3.0T; Dec 8, 2009 at 01:09 PM.
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From: Temecula, CA
Tesla model S
Just a floow-up note, she is starting very quick now with the lines all changed out, I mean not even one turn and bam! She starts right away - and she turns off quickly as well as soon as I turn the key off. I've checked all the lines and the pre-heater and all is nice and dry - except the the little turn knob on top of the large fuel filter, it seems to be a little wet after I drive, I put two new o-rings on so I'm not sure why she's leaking but I can handle that.
