ESP no crank
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Joined: Oct 2012
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2005 E320 cdi
ESP no crank
We have a 2005 E320 CDI with almost 120k on it. Several times late this summer it left my wife stranded. Three times on hot days she shut the car off returned a short time later and it wouldn't crank. Once the car cooled off it would restart with no indication there was ever a problem. Last week it did it again and it hasn't cranked since.
It has acted the same every time. All the dash lights light up...ESP malfunction is displayed...everything works electrically...no crank...no click...nadda. One of the times it did this I tried to scan it for codes and it had a connection error. I switched a few relays... no change.
I have found a few cases of this in various forums but the only one that posted that it had been fixed, didn't really know which module caused the problem. The battery module and "some other module" were replaced and the car was fixed. There are other cases of this with the cooling fan blowing full bore when the car is keyed on. In those cases it seems it is the ECM.
How do I go about testing this? Even better, does someone know what causes this?
Thanks, JR
It has acted the same every time. All the dash lights light up...ESP malfunction is displayed...everything works electrically...no crank...no click...nadda. One of the times it did this I tried to scan it for codes and it had a connection error. I switched a few relays... no change.
I have found a few cases of this in various forums but the only one that posted that it had been fixed, didn't really know which module caused the problem. The battery module and "some other module" were replaced and the car was fixed. There are other cases of this with the cooling fan blowing full bore when the car is keyed on. In those cases it seems it is the ECM.
How do I go about testing this? Even better, does someone know what causes this?
Thanks, JR
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(SOLD) 05 E55 Estate. 11 Golf TDi
my money is on the crank position sensor. not 100% sure because of the CDI version, but a ton of the CPS's have been going bad lately.
the "wont turn over when hot" symptom is how i'm diagnosing this.
the "wont turn over when hot" symptom is how i'm diagnosing this.
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223.168 & 213.012 & 906.633 & 214.005
I understood that it does not crank, meaning the starter motor does not even turn the engine (there would need to be more than a click and now there was not click). CPS would not prevent the engine from cranking.
Did the key turn in the ignition slot? Are you sure the battery was not flat?
Did the key turn in the ignition slot? Are you sure the battery was not flat?
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2005 E320 cdi
I agree...I believe the engine would still crank if the CPS was bad. (turn over, rotate, etc...ever start a Model A or other old car with a hand crank?... where we got the term: crank) If it is a CPS issue the engine cranks but either has no tachometer, won't fire, won't run, or runs terrible depending on what systems use the signal. (I have encountered a couple of these.) The CPS is useless before the crankshaft turns, am I correct?
The starter doesn't engage nor does the solenoid click. Key turns...battery is perfect. My wife drove it to our place of business and shut it off (it was not hot outside this last time)...I pulled it in our shop about 5 minutes later without incident...tried to move it onto the lift less then a minute later...no crank...died just in front of the lift!
The starter doesn't engage nor does the solenoid click. Key turns...battery is perfect. My wife drove it to our place of business and shut it off (it was not hot outside this last time)...I pulled it in our shop about 5 minutes later without incident...tried to move it onto the lift less then a minute later...no crank...died just in front of the lift!
Last edited by jrramage; Oct 19, 2012 at 10:45 AM.
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2005 E320 cdi
Does the car need fuel pressure for the starter to engage? I have a couple of sprinter vans and know that the starter will turn the engine when the fuel filter is empty and will fill as you crank.
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2005 E320 cdi
What is the DAS? Is it a module? How is it tested?
I have had several commonrail vehicles start and die after fuel filter change if the filter isn't full enough on restart. After more cranking or priming it will fill the filter, pressurize the rail and start again. The vehicle dies because there is insufficient fuel pressure in the rail caused by low fuel (and air) in the filter...right? The same happens when you run out of fuel on the road. The vehicle will crank but will not start until the rail is pressurized again. The presence of fuel in the rail is not adequate...the injectors cannot "pull" the fuel, they are simply a computer controlled electomagnetic valve releasing a calibrated amount of pressurized fuel.
I have had several commonrail vehicles start and die after fuel filter change if the filter isn't full enough on restart. After more cranking or priming it will fill the filter, pressurize the rail and start again. The vehicle dies because there is insufficient fuel pressure in the rail caused by low fuel (and air) in the filter...right? The same happens when you run out of fuel on the road. The vehicle will crank but will not start until the rail is pressurized again. The presence of fuel in the rail is not adequate...the injectors cannot "pull" the fuel, they are simply a computer controlled electomagnetic valve releasing a calibrated amount of pressurized fuel.
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From: Bay Area, CA
09' E320
DAS = Drive Authorization System. Security between key and ignition.
DAS Xentry = diagnostic software.
SDS = MB's diagnostic software.
Because the car wont crank it doesnt seem like a CPS problem to me. Possibly key/ignition/recognition related problem.
When it doesnt crank, does the steering wheel lock retract when the key is inserted in the ignition?
Could be the NSS. Next time it wont crank, try shifting to N and see if it cranks then.
DAS Xentry = diagnostic software.
SDS = MB's diagnostic software.
Because the car wont crank it doesnt seem like a CPS problem to me. Possibly key/ignition/recognition related problem.
When it doesnt crank, does the steering wheel lock retract when the key is inserted in the ignition?
Could be the NSS. Next time it wont crank, try shifting to N and see if it cranks then.
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2005 E320 cdi
I have tried starting from the neutral position...no difference. I believe the steering wheel unlocks as well but I will check tomorrow. Everything works when you turn the key on, it just won't crank. Something else...the temperature icon on the dash turns red when the key is turned to the on position and one of the triangle dummy lights as well. The lights acted like this the other times as well. I noticed that when I went to restart if those lights were normal when I turned the key to the on position the ESP malfunction message would be gone and the car would crank and start perfectly with no malfuntion message. I will post a picture of the cluster tomorrow.
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2002 CL500 to CL55 conversion
no fix? i'm having similar issues with my 02 w215, sometimes it will start but a lot of the time it won't even crank. the key turns and the engine doesn't so i know it's not the CPS, i even swapped out the CPS
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2005 E320 cdi
Plutoe, I purchased everything from Shardul...with CAN bus issues it seems you are limited to what you can diagnose because the system shows it is disconnected. I have been going thru wiring diagrams to figure out where the front SAM gets the signal to power the ECM. Thoughts?
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2002 CL500 to CL55 conversion
plutoe, how deep in tampa are you? i'm over in tarpon springs and it'd be awesome to sort this issue out without having to bend over at the dealer
if it's not a bad sam, then i think something like the brake light switch, the esp module, or a bad ignition switch could cause the engine not to crank
if it's not a bad sam, then i think something like the brake light switch, the esp module, or a bad ignition switch could cause the engine not to crank
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2005 E320 cdi
Plutoe, what am I missing? I bought a t30 IBM with DAS Xentry and all the other software that comes with it and a MB multiplexer. I have ran the scan but got very little useful information... I am all ears.
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2005 E320 cdi
Plutoe,
Forgive me. I have little experience with this level of diagnostics. I have used OBD scanners for years at a basic level. Most of my experience is with domestic diesels and VW TDIs. This car's electronics are far more advanced than I have ever worked with. The drivetrain is similar to our sprinters so I am somewhat familiar with it. I appreciate your time and efforts to help me. If you will guide me I will be a good student My wife thanks you as well
Forgive me. I have little experience with this level of diagnostics. I have used OBD scanners for years at a basic level. Most of my experience is with domestic diesels and VW TDIs. This car's electronics are far more advanced than I have ever worked with. The drivetrain is similar to our sprinters so I am somewhat familiar with it. I appreciate your time and efforts to help me. If you will guide me I will be a good student
My wife thanks you as well
