W212350

Enough with the stupid GS comparisons, get educated. MB started the dual headlight look W210 and Lexus copied.. As for the new 5, looks like a larger 3 with the rear end of an Avalon, rather bland.

ipp

Enthusiast1

About time K-A chimed in. After some study, I think the nose/front fascia has a lot of Volvo in it. The nose is definitely gonna have to grow on me. Reminds me of some other car also, but I can't quite put my finger on it yet. The side profile is all 3-series, and the rear reminds me of the Infiniti M series. I actually like the multi-contoured hood. The trunk is a monumental improvement over the outgoing 5, but that was easy to overcome as that was the worse shortcoming of that model in my opinion. Overall, I find the look evolutionary, and from the side and rear looks very nice, but still not 100% sold on the nose. Perhaps seeing it in person will do it justice.

I think the new 5 interior looks in pictures more luxurious than the new E-class, but I'm still not completely sold on the 5 as it still has the straight across the cabin styling that the 3 and prior 5 and 7 had as well. The materials look excellent, and most of the controls appear well laid out, with the exception of a row of a few low buttons like my 3.

In any event this now prolongs my decision making process as I was close to getting the new E but now plan on waiting to check out the new 5.

220S

Interesting. I feel the same way about the nose. For me, I think it's partly the size of the kidneys. They look 7er-like; a bit too big, imho. Otherwise, the design is subtle (in a positive way.) More like Audi, now. We'll see what the next 3er facelift is like, too. The Audi/BMW competition will stay alive.

But aside from any styling issues, the new 5er should blow away MB in pure performance and esp in street cred. The M5 will be something to reckon with for sure. MB and AMG will re-think their power train. It's now getting somewhat old in the tooth. They'll have to go TT soon, too, no doubt. And probably utilize MCT in more models (or at least as an option.)

220S

Imagine it with the M interior package (M wheel; sports seats, etc..):

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle..._interior.html

And the M front bumper and sports package:

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle..._exterior.html

Overall, I think it's been done quite well. More rear seat room than the E, also. And no jumping on the bandwagon with LED bling lights, either.

I think K-A's right, it will own this segment. And especially in the performance arena.

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle...sis/index.html
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle...nes/index.html

K-A

Just telling it like it is

The rear looks okay, muuuch better than the huge fail of the W212's. The nose I'm not tooo crazy about, the hood lines I have to see in person to make a final judgement, and the blunt nose BMW is forced to go with due to EU Regs is not really my cup of tea. M-B had to succumb to this as well, as the 212's nose is a bit more blunt than the 211's, but a BMW rep on another Board stated that M-B spent lots of R&D $$$$ to keep the 212's grille at a sort of a lean while passing Pedestrian Regs, in keeping with styling tradition.

Overall the F10 is a beautiful car, and remember people, we're looking at pics of a BASE model. Compare it with a base 212 and it's a more fair match. The 212 really needs the AMG pack to give it a presence, and this 5 looks okay without the M-Pack, although I would need the extra spice, as well, BMW is keeping the M-Pack exclusive for the 5'ers, so they won't be the norm/all over the road, like the 212's with AMG Packs.

Take it as you will, I'm just excited about this 5'er so far.

K-A

P.S that interior looks great and more luxurious than the IMO kinda hard vibe of the 212's. If it can provide some nicer materials, it might be the first time I like a BMW interior over an M-B's. My main issue with what BMW is doing with the nose of their cars is, the shutline where the bumper meets the hood is just not very seamlessly integrated, you just have to notice the way it cuts right through up there. Also the nose looks kind of SUV-ish to me in some angles, which is another testament to how blunt it is. All in all, small fries in terms of what it's replacing, and what it's currently up against. We'll see the real-life version soon, but at least we know it does pose well enough for pics, even in the drab form of the Corporate shots. REALLY can't wait to see it with the M-Pack.

I wonder how pricing will stack up against the Benz?

ipp

Agreed! The 5er with M-Sport will probably look very nice!

The pricing is very important, if the don't lower the prices like MB did I think there will be many jumping on the MB train. Especially now when the E-Class has a more kinky, modern design. I know many people don't like the look of the E60, but I really do. I think the W212 is MB's E60. However, BMW will have a problem if the 5er will be more expensive than the E.

ps. I don't know what I meant with that Legoland picture, felt suitable after half a bottle of red wine. I tend to have very strage humor sometimes...

220S

Here's a thread discussing pricing. All is pure speculation of course. But the fact that MB reduced costs and pricing is mentioned in several posts in that thread:
http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324706

gaazmon

I'm so sick of the played out LED look. Everyone has it Audi, VW, Porsche, MB with the new E and facelifted S (the S is covered in LEDs), and even Ford. BMW is smart with keeping with the angel eyes (actually, now the range rovers have LED rings around the headlights), maintains true to the tradition.

Ya, and I agree with K-A, I think it's the 1st time I will like a BMW interior over an MB. It looks very nice.

The kidney's are too big though, I don't get why they are going this route. But yes the next gen M5/M6 cars will be monsters and MB will have a big problem on their hands.

K-A

Lol, no worries.

The W212 is definitely M-B's E60, in fact, I have no doubts M-B's motto for this car was for it to be their own E60, as IMO I think they have been really trying to go the BMW route with their latest model range. If you look at some BMW Boards, many people who loved the E39, didn't like the E60, but did find the W211 to be the better looking of the two (I'm one of those), however, lots of E60 lovers, found the W211 too tame and simple, and I'd assume might like the W212 more.

True about the pricing, fact of the matter is, most of these buyers could give a crap about how the cars looks, they just want the status of their dream/favorite brand. M-B's have a more "expensive" aura to them, historically, so the average buyer will definitely find a problem in regards to the Bimmer if it's priced higher than it's competing Benz. M-B dropped the price with the W212 so much, you'd have to wonder how much the F10 will be.

If I like the F10 enough to consider buying it a year or so after it launches, I'll need the M-Pack, and a 535i minimum (preferrably a V8 if prices are sane enough), and I need dual exhaust, which only comes with the 535<'s.

I think M-B MIGHT stand a chance in the Sales wars for the first year or two, their look is much more "different" than its predecessor, much more polarizing and controversial, more of a statement, saying "I'm the new one", however that popping smoke effect only lasts a little while. The F10 is all about perfect proportions and evolved, harmonious design. Nothing that'll make you shocked, but will age beautifully and is just a gorgeous, easy on the eyes, pretty, yet still aggressive and sporty design. As these cars age I think we'll start seeing them in different lights, i.e "timeless" approach VS "trendy/in-your-face-ish.

I also think a lot of buyers will jump ship in each brand, as the F10 and W212 have kind of switched sides in regards to how the E60 and W211 were. Also, BMW has enjoyed a Sales soar since their ugly controversial designs debut, however they shoulda known that once you really shake things up, where are you gonna go from there? So M-B is eagerly awaiting its turn to do that themselves.... I just wonder if they're making a similar mistake.

rieger

MB 4 round lights then Lexus copies 4 round lights
Lexus goes 4 square lights then MB goes 4 square lights

Get educated and learn how to read. Did I say anything about who started the quad lights NO! I just said it now looks like the Lexus 4 square lights. Well aware of MB starting the modern version of the quad lights if you want to think of it this way. It was Jaguar who really started the quad lights. Educated enough for you sir. Now go learn how to read.

zergcerebrates

I think the new E has a more aggressive front. The overall shape of the new E is interesting to look at. The new 5 series is not bad but it doesn't have that WOW factor. It really looks just like a blown up 3. I wouldn't want to spend $50K on a car that looks like a 3 series at least have some bigger differences to tell them apart. Interior is a big improvement, looks way better than the current 5 series, but interior quality and finishes the new MB E class still gets the upper hand.

BobRBob

Agree that the new 5 looks a lot like the 3. But doesn't the new E-class look a lot like a blown up C-class? I don't think this family resemblance is a bad thing, but if it's bad for BMW then it must be for MB too.

K-A

I don't how you can make a definitive judgement on which car has a better interior quality. The E60's sucked, and the W212's is good, but not as good as the W211's IMO. If the F10 could be a big improvement over the E60, it can have the 212's number in that department too. It certainly looks more cozy and luxurious to me.

220S

Here are some F10 pricing figures (UK prices) in comparison to the out going E60.
http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=326024

Apparently the 550i will also be available in AWD(?)

As mentioned in other forums, even if the F10 is priced higher than the E Class, it's still going to outsell (as in the past.)

Remember too, that not only can you get M5 and M sports packaging on the 550i, but you can also get three pedals. No slush box only.

gaazmon

Very good rieger. it was jaguar who started that look. I am not a big fan of the quad light either (especially on the W215 CL. That should have definitely been dual). I was REALLY hoping MB would make a headlight for the new E similar to that of the C class and CLS mixed together.

One thing you guys are also forgetting (this next segment will not include AMG and M model). The MB E comes in 2 flavors: 350 (268 hp) and 550 (380 hp) vs the BMW 5 comes in 3 flavors: 528 (230 hp), 535 (300 hp), and 550 (360+ hp). MB is in a dilemma in a way with the 268 hp engine because most cars in this segment now with V6's are producing 300 hp or more. MB should have placed the 300 hp engine that comes in the new SLK350's in the E350 and also bring the E300 which pushes about 220+ hp. The result would be that the E300 would hit at an even lower price point for those that don't want the power at all (attracting those 528i buyers, probably making msrp on the car around $45k) the 350 (probably going to $50k msrp) would compete better with the 535 and the new Audi A6. In regards to the E60, I see the most 528's around my area.

K-A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Occvk...layer_embedded

This car is gonna be great. I haven't liked a BMW in so long, it's kind of weird imagining myself owning one, but I'm starting to like the ring it has to it. Sucks 'cause it looks like the M-Pack won't be available until late late 2010 or so, and me never liking to buy a car new, I'd have to wait until 2012 or so to snap up a slightly Used one.... Unless I Leased. Fortunately, since the 212 has come out, I've really re-fallen in love with the 211's design even more-so than before, so if I can hold onto that, I won't be lusting after the F10 so much. Even so, I'm planning on keeping it when/if I do get an F10, which will give me the best of both worlds.

If I do wait that long, I think I'd just go for a 550 with M-Pack.

K-A

The stance is just stunning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YDv_...layer_embedded

Only part I'm not too sold on is the front. Not as bad or piggy as the 7'ers, but lacking some elegance and flair. BMW is having a really hard time with the EU regulations.

Stuttgart-UT

Iam sorry but the bmw 5 looks like all the other bmw series like 3 or 7... that should be THE NEW bmw 5??? uuuuuugly......

It's a shame that Bmw is going the same way that audi is going! every car looks the same...
Only mercedes can make every car look unique... i think thats why the mercedes cars have the smallest depreciation...

K-A

I don't see how the new 5 looks any more like a 3 than a E looks like a C. So many non-car people I know always say the W212 looks like a bigger W204, or that they couldn't initially tell a difference when seeing on on the road. Same goes for the W203 and W211, etc.

That picture you posted of the 5 to me is purely stunning and completely clean and cohesive, which is something M-B is not implementing into their current designs, save for the SLS.

Also, M-B's so do not have the smallest depreciation, lol. I'd at least think they're tied with BMW, depending on which model we're talking about.

Quadcammer

There are some insanely asinine posts in this thread, this being one of them.

MB's depreciate like mad, especially the big dog AMGs. S65s cost $180k new, you can get them 3 years later for $80k.

Also, I'm a bit confused how someone can know that the 212 has better interior materials when the F10 hasn't even been released. Maybe you should wait till you can sit in it.

I really like the F10, and it is a much smoother design than the 212 to me.

Tjdehya

You are quoting "non-car people"??? Non-car people couldn’t tell the difference between a Miata and a Maybach even if they were sitting next to each other.
The quote you should focus on is when "Car people" have trouble telling the difference between models.
Oh yea we squint to tell the difference between the E and the C, cuz you know the quad headlights on the E are hard to notice

mbchris

That may be the case in the USA. But notice that the poster is located in Germany - perhaps Stuttgart?

In the USA, Mercs depreciate faster than BMWs. You can also see evidence of this in their lower lease residuals. In addition, you need to consider why Benz reduced the price of the W212 so much over the W211. If resale values are high, wouldn't the opposite be true? They could increase prices because of this?

220S

Yeah, (at least in the US) MB has the worst depreciation (esp AMG models)

fwiw, here's the 2009 residuals ratings (with MB E and S Class at the next to last tier): https://www.alg.com/DepreciationRatings

btw, just read that the 550i will also come in an AWD version. And all BMWs can still be had with a manual transmission. With the M5 you're not stuck with a slushbox unlike AMG. The F10 will give the consumer more choices over MB, imho.

One thing to watch is if the safety ratings on the 5er will improve. Remember, the side impact was marginal on the E60. I'm assuming they will have corrected that with the F10 (it had something to do with the center console hitting the crash dummy, iirc) Of course all mfgs are dramatically improving safety now anyway (one reason Volvo is no longer really in the running as a Euro car choice these days.)