donny79

I have 2010 e350 sport model, 485 suspension…. Does anyone know the right camber settings for the fronts and the rears? I been looking online and I can’t find the correct answers anywhere.. my VIN is
WDDHF5GB4AA082600 if this helps. Any input would be highly appreciated.. thank you

Left Coast Geek

this is what I found in WIS.

S-Prihadi

Use this kind of VIN decoder where you get suspension code or all codes from Mercedes
or LCG has access to proper MB server for VIN

https://www.lastvin.com/vin/RVqae2qM0pQ2MN6Op

Your car variant is W212.056, this is important info.
Your suspension is the same as mine 677. Use that to find the camber for 677.
677 AVANTGARDE/STANDARD SUSPENSION


REAR CAMBER , RWD, 677, W212.0










FRONT CAMBER. NOTE : W212.2 same value to your W212.0



These so much level of details for various variants of W212, often is not available in alignment machine database.
You keeping you own car specification and bring it to the alignment shop is a MUST.

I need to keep reminding everyone, as this is 99% the mistake I seen :
Next do not make mistake in translation that MB is using decimal minutes for all its alignment value and Romess value is decimal degrees.
Some alignment shop may use decimal degrees, be careful and convert accordingly.
Go prepared with both decimal degrees and minutes spec for your car on hand.

Have fun at the alignment shop

Left Coast Geek

Decimal degrees = degrees + (minutes/60)

donny79

I’m trying to understand that chart so front camber should be -.33 and rears -1.27? Is this correct? Sorry for the confusion I just don’t understand the charts

Left Coast Geek

-33 arcminutes is -0.55 degrees decimal, +/- 0.35 degrees (21 arcminutes). The left and right have to be within 0.4 degrees (24 arcminutes)

donny79

My driver front is -1.5 can I buy the 14mm bolts or they won’t + it enough to where they need to be

Left Coast Geek

I would want to know why it's so far off. Is something bent ? Is a bushing excessively worn? Is the subframe tweaked?

S-Prihadi

Donny,

Your issue and solution been discussed here : https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...ml#post8693824

Donny asked : My driver front is -1.5 can I buy the 14mm bolts or they won’t + it enough to where they need to be
Camber or Caster Correction bolt can only do approx 0.33 decimal degree correction + or -.

I am repeating my advice again, at the minimum you are to replace, for both sides, camber arm #300 and that L ball joint #310




As LCG have asked you on above post: I would want to know why it's so far off. Is something bent ? Is a bushing excessively worn? Is the subframe tweaked?
.....perhaps you may give some history of the car when camber value was within spec to now with so much out of spec, what happened ?

These can effect your cambers directly.
01. Front strut assy bent outward at its bottom side.
02. The front steering knuckle ( item #10) bent outward at its lower region where it is the anchor point for item #310 nd #300

The MB correction bolt for camber and caster uses approx 3mm groove depth for that approx 0.33 decimal degrees correction.
The groove can be used as pushing out the camber arm #300 ( more negative camber ) or pulling in the camber arm #300 ( less negative camber).
The MB correction bolts is not adjustable by means of spinning an eccentric bolt like what other cars uses to adjust camber.

MB correction bolt : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131573294683
Typical eccentric bolt : https://www.yotashop.com/camber-bolt...1998-kit-1092/

The time I learnt of Camber and Caster bolts corrections the long hard way :
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...adventure.html
NOTE : MB WIS information for Camber or Caster bolt head placement/orientation is only correct for 1 side of the car..


Now the whacky part. Adding Camber correction bolt also effects Caster. Yes, after all they are all linked.

After 20 laps abuse at the track, my Caster value went out of spec. My Camber was decent.
Installing CAMBER correction bolt got my CASTER back into spec and CAMBER spec comes closer to a good value. I also replaced item #310 L shaped ball joint and stabilizer links.
See to what extend CAMBER correction bolts did to CAMBER value.... 21 minutes or 0.35 decimal degrees I got for right side camber in ADDING mode.
Your case for Camber correction bolt is to be used in REDUCTION mode. So for your 1.5 decimal degrees to be back to 0.55 decimal degrees is a NO CAN'T DO with correction bolts.



Good luck....

K-Mac

Controversy goes on but stark reality is that Dealers or Align shops have “nothing to adjust” except basic ‘Toe’ - directional adjustment

The often quoted, reassuring “Full Front and Rear ‘4’ Wheel Alignment” is just that - Toe adjustment !

No Camber (or Caster) essential to adjust / correct tire “contact angles”, spread load more evenly.

To resolve costly, premature, excessive edge tire wear encountered in day to day commuting.

High cambered roads with excess passenger side edge wear, wheel squat through load carrying or lowering. Fitting wide profile tires. Or just having “ongoing” adjustment capability for curb knock damage.

New car industry’s best kept secret. It is all to do with cost cutting and ever increasing speed of auto assembly lines.

We saw the need to re instate from the 90’s Front Camber and Caster along with Rear Camber (and extra Toe) adjustment.

*All W212 models you can fit (Front only) offset Cam bolts - but they are inaccurate one position offering a miniscule 1/8” (.3 of one degree).

K-MAC unique patented design Front and Rear kits replace the 4 highest wearing bushes and at the same time provide 4 times the adjustment range !

FIXING IT RIGHT THE 1st. TIME - ALLOWING SINGLE WRENCH ULTIMATE ADJUSTMENT - “UNDER LOAD” DIRECT ON ALIGNMENT RACK.

SEE SPOILER










AUDI to VOLVO - K-MAC Experience Of Resolving OEM Suspension Shortcomings Since 1964 !

donny79

I got run off the road few months ago by a 18 wheeler on drivers side, passanger side I nailed a huge pothole but that’s all I can think of I take care of the car….. Also I know this been discussed before and I know what you said I need to fix it, I just want to know where the fronts and rears should be at , I don’t know how to read the charts they make no sense to me so I need simple like fronts -.073- -0.03 and rears -1.0- -0.03….. I need it simplified

Left Coast Geek

If you can't understand what we've detailed above, take it to a professional experienced in Mercedes alignment.

S-Prihadi

agree

donny79

@Left Coast Geek why would I go to the dealership, pay them bunch of money to tell me what the camber is supposed to be? It’s a simple question I just want to know how much It’s off. It’s a clear cut answer I don’t know why this is turning into a novel….. front camber, rear camber that’s it

pierrejoliat

Well first, you said you have a sport, so that would be the lowered suspension #677, only the AMG comes with #486, then you say you have the #485 suspension, which is the luxury suspension, both have slightly different settings, so let's start by determining which car you actually have?

juanmor40

From your answer you show you do not understand what the numbers, yours not the ons provided, means.

Because you are missing units on your suggested numbers, we cannot tell if you mean minutes, miles degrees or apples.

The information provided is at the simplest level for the informed in alignment issues, i.e. even for me.

Nobody here mentioned dealers, the word use was specialist. A big difference

Left Coast Geek

The PDFs I attached have all the variations, look at the data card for your car, generally stuck in with the owners manual to see which options you have..... They give the andles in degrees and arcminutes, as I said you can convert degrees and arcminutes to decimal degrees by taking the arcminutes divided by 60 and adding that to the whole degrees.

If your camber is off, you need to find out why, it's not adjustable. It could be the control arms, worn bushings, and/or bent subframe. A professional alignment expert familiar with Mercedes should be able to advise based on frame jig measurements.

Left Coast Geek

That vin in the first post apparently has the 677 standard suspension although the car has the sport trim package.

S-Prihadi

I best re-explain for Donny to understand. There is a kind of typo when I said decimal minutes. Usually it is called Degree Minutes.
Some people like using minutes to represent higher resolution of 1 degree and it is 60' read as sixty minutes.
So 1* (degree) is the same as 60 minutes.

Decimal Degree is easy, double digit after DOT is 1/100 resolution like 1 dollar is 100 cents, 3 digits after DOT is 1/1000 resolution.

1.5 decimal degrees, therefore is 1* (degree) 30' (minutes). The minute symbol is the top coma '

So the Front camber being -0* 33' means it is -0.55* ( degree) . Calculation is : 33/60 = 0.55, with allowance or tolerance of +-21' or +- 0.35 degrees.

Rear camber is written as -1* 27' Minus One Degree and 27 minutes. So the 27' (minutes) is 27/60 = 0.45* (degrees). Therefore -1.45* (degrees).
Allowance of tolerance is +- 30' (minutes) or +-0.5* (degrees).... you count yourself yah.

Pay attention to the ' (minute symbol ) and without DOT after the degree for Degree Minutes MB is using.
Hope it is less confusing yah

kajtek1

I don't think this is just a typo, but per my experience software errors.
When it was few years ago, I took my wagon to dealer for alignment. They gave it back to me at the end of the day and I had to double request from cashier a copy of values.
Turned out the dealer gave me wagon back with 8 parameters in red. I went back there following day and Shift Manager took almost an hour with SA to recalculate it all as computer was interpreting degrees/minutes as decimals and in few marginal situations it redlight something that was actually within parameters.
That shows the level of education those $300/hr technicians have.

donny79

On my alignment paperwork it says 485 suspension, after I looked more into it after this post I realized it 677 suspension, my mistake

Left Coast Geek

a major thing... if an alignment shop just does a static measurement (plop the car on the rack, measure things as-is), they may not be taking into account slop and wear in the suspension bushings.

but I believe you said you slammed a pothole at sufficient speed for it to be a jarring impact? thats going to bend stuff. once bent, it can't be unbent or adjusted back.

next time I'm at my desk and if I remember, I should dig back into WIS, and pull up the frame alignment specs PDFs. a frame alignment stand is something a good bodyshop has, and this will tell you if all the key suspension pivot points are in the right places.. if they are, then new bushings and control arms, and you'll be golden again. if the frame is tweaked, its probably too expensive to fix, so you either live with it, or dump the car and get another.

S-Prihadi

That is why I said, use your own proper data from MB as many machines do not have complete data base or MB cars.
Once you have your own database, it doesn't matter what suspension type is on the alignment machine screen, you know your own car data set.

Since now I know from VIN your car suspension is a 677 and body is the same W212.0 as mine and also RWD , you can use the data spec I use. We are the same spec

See the data section in orange and red, that is our car's value I call MB TARGET



You then also prepared the same data, but converted to Decimal Degrees too.
Print and keep that in the car. You are now ready for the common Degrees Decimal and Degree Minutes value they use.
Some US old alignment machine I believe uses inches, that is way too old

There is another value attached in PDF, attached . Check to-out angle at 20 degrees.pdf also known as Ackerman Toe Out On Turns




======ADD ======== same value between W212.2xx and W212.0xx ==============




Take a big coffee glass and learn more here : https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...ub-radius.html


Have fun...........

S-Prihadi

The print out for Donny's is machine generated in Degree Decimal and that is by fixed mature Hunter software, so very unlikely it has conversion error.
If one has to type reports manually on WORD or any text editor software, yes mistake may happen if they are not familiar with the units of measurement.

Donny's report in Degree Decimal.



Above result needs money both at front and rear camber

============

What we as owners should NOT do is : to accept blindly the wide tolerance value a GREEN COLOR (OK) means on those reports.
Some mild out of spec but acceptable value I seen are colored ORANGE by Hunter. RED means bad, that simple. But what are their exact reference values ?
If we have the correct MB Target and its tolerance, we can decide how close to MB Target we want the values to be.

Its like our main battery voltage, techy said its good , it is 12.x volt. Hell, I want to know the X mean 0.1V or 0.8V ?

donny79

Thank you I appreciate your help