Metal in Oil at 27,800 miles '12 E-350
#1
Metal in Oil at 27,800 miles '12 E-350
Car has been well maintained and properly serviced, never overheated, never driven hard, not driven every day, always garaged. This is not what one should expect from an engine which should last well over 100K miles. Are there any old issues out there with recalls, problems with MB part suppliers, or any situation which could explain this failure? I'm assuming MB will tell me to pound sand. Is there any situation which might cause them to give any consideration? Thank you.
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Car has been well maintained and properly serviced, never overheated, never driven hard, not driven every day, always garaged. This is not what one should expect from an engine which should last well over 100K miles. Are there any old issues out there with recalls, problems with MB part suppliers, or any situation which could explain this failure? I'm assuming MB will tell me to pound sand. Is there any situation which might cause them to give any consideration? Thank you.
Diesel or gasoline?
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
shiny stuff 😳
+1...a V6 over 10 years old with metal shavings in engine oil is no concern for the manufacturer. Even if your engine blew up, the excellent care specialist would not return your call.
A lot of people are in the same boat unknowingly. You just happen to have uncommon information.
The car maintenance you get done is what helps your car stay in good shape longer.
You should get the oil analysed to figure what engine element is falling apart.
Already you can use a magnet to test magnetic properties of your oil sample (steel vs.light alloy).
If particles were stuck at the bottom of your oil pan instead of trapped in the oil filter, it may be heavier steel pieces such as the soft VVT lock pins getting ready to call you attention.
Use MB recommended oil or better grade, changed often or around 7.5kMi.
A lot of people are in the same boat unknowingly. You just happen to have uncommon information.
The car maintenance you get done is what helps your car stay in good shape longer.
You should get the oil analysed to figure what engine element is falling apart.
Already you can use a magnet to test magnetic properties of your oil sample (steel vs.light alloy).
If particles were stuck at the bottom of your oil pan instead of trapped in the oil filter, it may be heavier steel pieces such as the soft VVT lock pins getting ready to call you attention.
Use MB recommended oil or better grade, changed often or around 7.5kMi.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-22-2023 at 04:57 AM. Reason: oil chg
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Sorry to hear that . We have many members well past 100K miles without any major problems with their engines .
CaliBenzDriver has a point at his last paragraph . I still wish there's nothing serious with your engine unless you see enormous clouds of smoke when you drive it or excessive "oil burning"
CaliBenzDriver has a point at his last paragraph . I still wish there's nothing serious with your engine unless you see enormous clouds of smoke when you drive it or excessive "oil burning"
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2016 E350 Sport
Title says 27,800 miles... or is it 127,800?
#7
A reply to all who have responded. Car is gas. I am the second owner beginning at 13,000 miles. Car now has just a few miles short of 28,000. Car has been properly serviced during my ownership. Slivers and particles found in oil filter...both aluminum and steel. At present the engine "sounds" like it is coming apart. Not really drivable unless you have a tow truck ready behind you. The question today is what is it worth with a trashed engine. Otherwise the car is pristine. Interior is like new. No smokers. No pets. I will never know or understand why this engine is failing at such low mileage.
Don Parrish
Don Parrish
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2008 E350 (W211 @170K), 2012 ML350 (W166 @119K), 2014 E350 (W212 @100K), 2015 ML350 (W166 @96K)
Car has been well maintained and properly serviced, never overheated, never driven hard, not driven every day, always garaged. This is not what one should expect from an engine which should last well over 100K miles. Are there any old issues out there with recalls, problems with MB part suppliers, or any situation which could explain this failure? I'm assuming MB will tell me to pound sand. Is there any situation which might cause them to give any consideration? Thank you.
In my opinion, the M272 engines of the last generation (post-balance shaft mess) are bulletproof engines if properly maintained. They have issues like any device, but their issues have been summarized in the forum.
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2008 E350 (W211 @170K), 2012 ML350 (W166 @119K), 2014 E350 (W212 @100K), 2015 ML350 (W166 @96K)
A reply to all who have responded. Car is gas. I am the second owner beginning at 13,000 miles. Car now has just a few miles short of 28,000. Car has been properly serviced during my ownership. Slivers and particles found in oil filter...both aluminum and steel. At present the engine "sounds" like it is coming apart. Not really drivable unless you have a tow truck ready behind you. The question today is what is it worth with a trashed engine. Otherwise the car is pristine. Interior is like new. No smokers. No pets. I will never know or understand why this engine is failing at such low mileage.
Don Parrish
Don Parrish
A comment on the service. Based on mileage this car would have had at maximum 3 services: A @10K, B @20K, and A@30K. Not many at all. Based on age, it should have had at least 10 services, basically oil, oil filters, and brake fluid.
Last edited by juanmor40; 03-22-2023 at 12:18 PM.
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#10
For any who may be interested: VIN for this 2012 E-350 is WDDHF5KB5CA563210. Purchased, 2nd owner, at just under 14K miles, Aug 2017. Service since purchase: At approximately 20K serviced but I do not have the invoice for that. Beyond that: 25K-- Jul 2018, 26.5K-- Oct 2020, 27.9K--Feb 2023. All services by qualified service personnel using oil and filters as specified by MB. With odo at just under 28,000 miles, this car has been driven about 14,000 miles in 5 1/2 years.
I have no knowledge of service to this car prior to my purchase. It was a car coming off a lease.
I have no knowledge of service to this car prior to my purchase. It was a car coming off a lease.
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2008 E350 (W211 @170K), 2012 ML350 (W166 @119K), 2014 E350 (W212 @100K), 2015 ML350 (W166 @96K)
For any who may be interested: VIN for this 2012 E-350 is WDDHF5KB5CA563210. Purchased, 2nd owner, at just under 14K miles, Aug 2017. Service since purchase: At approximately 20K serviced but I do not have the invoice for that. Beyond that: 25K-- Jul 2018, 26.5K-- Oct 2020, 27.9K--Feb 2023. All services by qualified service personnel using oil and filters as specified by MB. With odo at just under 28,000 miles, this car has been driven about 14,000 miles in 5 1/2 years.
I have no knowledge of service to this car prior to my purchase. It was a car coming off a lease.
I have no knowledge of service to this car prior to my purchase. It was a car coming off a lease.
From your service dates, and mileage the car has been sitting for a long time, not GOOD. For example 14K/5year = 3K/year (hopefully real miles). Hopefully, it was serviced before delivery in 2017. After that 20K service, it has been serviced 3 times in 5 years. As far as I understand, cars that sit for too long between starts need pre-emptive help to prevent rust to scratch surfaces when starting. It is not clear if the car was warmed up occasionally between the occasional driving, or sat for 2 years and then driven 1K miles.
Have you got a diagnosis from an MB specialist (not just a professional mechanic) familiar with these engines? Sister's 2012 W166 M276/9 is also within the range specified in the service bulletin; however, it is serviced every 5K (on the clock) and it has reached 120K+ w/o any engine issue (but a CPS @110K).
Fingers crossed it is a consequence of the chain tensioners rattle, and you can get away with a major engine repair, but not engine replacement. You need an specialist to look carefully on this engine for you. Definitely long-term damaged has been done, but who knows how much can be saved?
Last edited by juanmor40; 03-22-2023 at 05:29 PM.
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2017 GLE350 4MATIC
Condolences, if the engine is actually falling apart.
You have shown no photos of Blackstone report, and no qualified mechanic diagnosis or service invoice. What information are you using for your assessment?
Again, bummer if this is happening, but you have provided scant information.
You have shown no photos of Blackstone report, and no qualified mechanic diagnosis or service invoice. What information are you using for your assessment?
Again, bummer if this is happening, but you have provided scant information.
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
trusted assessment before correction...
it could well be an unscrupulous foul trying to force you out of the driver seat to buy your gem: DON'T DO IT!
Get a second opinion you can trust before making any decision.
Engine oil is fairly cleaned by the (8um) OEM filter cartridge. The issue has more to do with burnt oil not lubricating.
Engine oil is one thing but now transmission oil and brake system need timely service before they develop their own attention getters.
Get a second opinion you can trust before making any decision.
Engine oil is fairly cleaned by the (8um) OEM filter cartridge. The issue has more to do with burnt oil not lubricating.
Engine oil is one thing but now transmission oil and brake system need timely service before they develop their own attention getters.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-22-2023 at 08:41 PM.
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I would bet it's the timing chain tensioner, my 2012 with 30,000 miles has just started to get a little louder on startup, in mine it's timing chain rattle, I can hear it, it now lasts for the first minute and a half after starting, this time is getting longer over the course of the last six months, now, I have to say sometimes it's a month between start-ups, but is is extending the time of the rattle from 30 seconds to the minute and a half I mentioned, sometime this summer I will have the timing chain tensioners replaced, I thought there was a service bulletin on this but Ive owned the car now for 11 years, JuanMor40 may have covered that above in post #11
Last edited by pierrejoliat; 03-24-2023 at 11:12 AM.
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#16
First, I want to thank all that have replied. Let me make a few things a bit more clear: The professional opinion I am working from today is a "second" opinion, the first from highly qualified independent MB mechanic, the second from another independent repair service which is noted by many to have some of the best MB mechanics in Phoenix. Neither of these two have made any remote indication they would like to buy this car.
I have seen the photographic evidence of what's in the oil filter. There is no reason to think these are like the dirty air cleaner supposedly remove from your car at the quick lube shop. Having a good bit of experience with oil/metal problems from several thousand hours in turbine aircraft, what I see is bad.
If that is not good enough, anyone listening to the car now would certainly agree it must be bad, very bad.
To refine the "noise" progression: (Although not driven a great many miles over the last few years, the car was driven on a regular basis, short trips but always up to operating temperature.) Beginning probably about 500 to 700 miles back there was what I could only describe as a tick at start-up. After driving and coming to full temp, the tick was still there. Could not be heard in the car. Perhaps my first mistake, I should have stopped then. Over time it became a bit worse and I began to hear the noise inside the car. In the last 50 miles or less, the problem was much more pronounced, and I began talking to the first "opinion". I made note of sounds now and can report at start-up it is more than a tick, at 1000 rpm it is much more noticeable. Car in Park, advancing the rpm from there it becomes more like an engine wanting to come apart. At one time the sound seemed to reduce significantly above 2500 rpm' not now. The car can be moved around a bit at idle rpm but advancing the throttle seems to be asking for it to come apart.
My second opinion service center was aware of "L105.10-P-056435" but due to the tick or rattling noise never dissipating after sufficient oil pressure, that was not the problem. Arguable point? Perhaps, but not from me.
Bottom line today. Retired, not wealthy but comfortable. Already have two cars, a truck (and a '67 Corvette), don't need the MB. May have to admit that perhaps some of all this is my fault. I can do that and I can afford to say that. That's not being arrogant, I worked hard to get here. My choice today is an expensive repair (no doubt, it is an MB) or install a used engine also not inexpensive. Either of those choices cost near or above $10K and in the end the car is still a 2012 worth what (?) and waiting for the next shoe to drop. So...the MB will go. Make me an offer.
Thanks again to all for your input,
Don Parrish Phoenix
I have seen the photographic evidence of what's in the oil filter. There is no reason to think these are like the dirty air cleaner supposedly remove from your car at the quick lube shop. Having a good bit of experience with oil/metal problems from several thousand hours in turbine aircraft, what I see is bad.
If that is not good enough, anyone listening to the car now would certainly agree it must be bad, very bad.
To refine the "noise" progression: (Although not driven a great many miles over the last few years, the car was driven on a regular basis, short trips but always up to operating temperature.) Beginning probably about 500 to 700 miles back there was what I could only describe as a tick at start-up. After driving and coming to full temp, the tick was still there. Could not be heard in the car. Perhaps my first mistake, I should have stopped then. Over time it became a bit worse and I began to hear the noise inside the car. In the last 50 miles or less, the problem was much more pronounced, and I began talking to the first "opinion". I made note of sounds now and can report at start-up it is more than a tick, at 1000 rpm it is much more noticeable. Car in Park, advancing the rpm from there it becomes more like an engine wanting to come apart. At one time the sound seemed to reduce significantly above 2500 rpm' not now. The car can be moved around a bit at idle rpm but advancing the throttle seems to be asking for it to come apart.
My second opinion service center was aware of "L105.10-P-056435" but due to the tick or rattling noise never dissipating after sufficient oil pressure, that was not the problem. Arguable point? Perhaps, but not from me.
Bottom line today. Retired, not wealthy but comfortable. Already have two cars, a truck (and a '67 Corvette), don't need the MB. May have to admit that perhaps some of all this is my fault. I can do that and I can afford to say that. That's not being arrogant, I worked hard to get here. My choice today is an expensive repair (no doubt, it is an MB) or install a used engine also not inexpensive. Either of those choices cost near or above $10K and in the end the car is still a 2012 worth what (?) and waiting for the next shoe to drop. So...the MB will go. Make me an offer.
Thanks again to all for your input,
Don Parrish Phoenix
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2008 E350 (W211 @170K), 2012 ML350 (W166 @119K), 2014 E350 (W212 @100K), 2015 ML350 (W166 @96K)
First, I want to thank all that have replied. Let me make a few things a bit more clear: The professional opinion I am working from today is a "second" opinion, the first from highly qualified independent MB mechanic, the second from another independent repair service which is noted by many to have some of the best MB mechanics in Phoenix. Neither of these two have made any remote indication they would like to buy this car.
I have seen the photographic evidence of what's in the oil filter. There is no reason to think these are like the dirty air cleaner supposedly remove from your car at the quick lube shop. Having a good bit of experience with oil/metal problems from several thousand hours in turbine aircraft, what I see is bad.
If that is not good enough, anyone listening to the car now would certainly agree it must be bad, very bad.
To refine the "noise" progression: (Although not driven a great many miles over the last few years, the car was driven on a regular basis, short trips but always up to operating temperature.) Beginning probably about 500 to 700 miles back there was what I could only describe as a tick at start-up. After driving and coming to full temp, the tick was still there. Could not be heard in the car. Perhaps my first mistake, I should have stopped then. Over time it became a bit worse and I began to hear the noise inside the car. In the last 50 miles or less, the problem was much more pronounced, and I began talking to the first "opinion". I made note of sounds now and can report at start-up it is more than a tick, at 1000 rpm it is much more noticeable. Car in Park, advancing the rpm from there it becomes more like an engine wanting to come apart. At one time the sound seemed to reduce significantly above 2500 rpm' not now. The car can be moved around a bit at idle rpm but advancing the throttle seems to be asking for it to come apart.
My second opinion service center was aware of "L105.10-P-056435" but due to the tick or rattling noise never dissipating after sufficient oil pressure, that was not the problem. Arguable point? Perhaps, but not from me.
Bottom line today. Retired, not wealthy but comfortable. Already have two cars, a truck (and a '67 Corvette), don't need the MB. May have to admit that perhaps some of all this is my fault. I can do that and I can afford to say that. That's not being arrogant, I worked hard to get here. My choice today is an expensive repair (no doubt, it is an MB) or install a used engine also not inexpensive. Either of those choices cost near or above $10K and in the end the car is still a 2012 worth what (?) and waiting for the next shoe to drop. So...the MB will go. Make me an offer.
Thanks again to all for your input,
Don Parrish Phoenix
I have seen the photographic evidence of what's in the oil filter. There is no reason to think these are like the dirty air cleaner supposedly remove from your car at the quick lube shop. Having a good bit of experience with oil/metal problems from several thousand hours in turbine aircraft, what I see is bad.
If that is not good enough, anyone listening to the car now would certainly agree it must be bad, very bad.
To refine the "noise" progression: (Although not driven a great many miles over the last few years, the car was driven on a regular basis, short trips but always up to operating temperature.) Beginning probably about 500 to 700 miles back there was what I could only describe as a tick at start-up. After driving and coming to full temp, the tick was still there. Could not be heard in the car. Perhaps my first mistake, I should have stopped then. Over time it became a bit worse and I began to hear the noise inside the car. In the last 50 miles or less, the problem was much more pronounced, and I began talking to the first "opinion". I made note of sounds now and can report at start-up it is more than a tick, at 1000 rpm it is much more noticeable. Car in Park, advancing the rpm from there it becomes more like an engine wanting to come apart. At one time the sound seemed to reduce significantly above 2500 rpm' not now. The car can be moved around a bit at idle rpm but advancing the throttle seems to be asking for it to come apart.
My second opinion service center was aware of "L105.10-P-056435" but due to the tick or rattling noise never dissipating after sufficient oil pressure, that was not the problem. Arguable point? Perhaps, but not from me.
Bottom line today. Retired, not wealthy but comfortable. Already have two cars, a truck (and a '67 Corvette), don't need the MB. May have to admit that perhaps some of all this is my fault. I can do that and I can afford to say that. That's not being arrogant, I worked hard to get here. My choice today is an expensive repair (no doubt, it is an MB) or install a used engine also not inexpensive. Either of those choices cost near or above $10K and in the end the car is still a 2012 worth what (?) and waiting for the next shoe to drop. So...the MB will go. Make me an offer.
Thanks again to all for your input,
Don Parrish Phoenix
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#18
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So, it is the DI engine with the high pressure fuel pumps.
I just had this weird noise coming from my S550 278 engine. See link below.
I have not seen video or other recording what kind of a noise OP has but mine sounded like metal is rattling somewhere and was given the hint of it coming from the high pressure fuel pump. I replaced both pumps and the "roller" lifters and sound is gone. I think it was really one of the lifters that had worn extra clearance, but I changed everything as I was there...
Could it be this same issue...?
https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...ine-noise.html
I just had this weird noise coming from my S550 278 engine. See link below.
I have not seen video or other recording what kind of a noise OP has but mine sounded like metal is rattling somewhere and was given the hint of it coming from the high pressure fuel pump. I replaced both pumps and the "roller" lifters and sound is gone. I think it was really one of the lifters that had worn extra clearance, but I changed everything as I was there...
Could it be this same issue...?
https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...ine-noise.html
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It is very common to discuss them as the same engine except where they differ of course.
A recording, if you think the engine will tolerate more running time, will give some in the forum a chance to give you a more informed comment. The W212 group is one of the most active groups in MBWorld, and will honestly try to pitch informed comments.
Last edited by juanmor40; 03-23-2023 at 08:32 PM.
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#23
Arrie:
I will admit here my inability to post the recording I have which is 1:16. Made with my iPhone but not able to move to an email form for posting.
Suffice it to say, the pronounced knocking at 2000-2500 and beyond is loud and severe.
Don
I will admit here my inability to post the recording I have which is 1:16. Made with my iPhone but not able to move to an email form for posting.
Suffice it to say, the pronounced knocking at 2000-2500 and beyond is loud and severe.
Don
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This place is a joke.
Without a picture of the alleged metal particles I'm going to say it's highly unlikely there's anything wrong with your engine. I've taken apart a few MB oil filters and every one, EVERY time had traces of metal flakes especially when shining a flashlight into the bottom of the oil filter housing. I stopped doing it as I found it to be a pointless exercise. This is normal, and my 190k mile m272 engine is living proof.
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I also must tell you your car is worth twice to three times it's whole value in parts, yes, it sits for a while, but this happened to me with my '03 S500, insurance offered 8K, got more than 16K in parts, yes, most I removed myself, but the engine and tranny brought 4k all by themselves. Sad to think, but Im retired also, so time is less of an issue, hard to watch the pieces leave however, but with that mileage the pieces have real value.
Last edited by pierrejoliat; 03-24-2023 at 11:35 AM.
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