donparrish

Car has been well maintained and properly serviced, never overheated, never driven hard, not driven every day, always garaged. This is not what one should expect from an engine which should last well over 100K miles. Are there any old issues out there with recalls, problems with MB part suppliers, or any situation which could explain this failure? I'm assuming MB will tell me to pound sand. Is there any situation which might cause them to give any consideration? Thank you.

chassis

Welcome! Sorry to hear. What suggests there is metal in the oil? MB will not provide any consideration for a 10 year old car with 100k miles, unfortunately.

Diesel or gasoline?

MJ50

moved to W212 forum...

CaliBenzDriver

+1...a V6 over 10 years old with metal shavings in engine oil is no concern for the manufacturer. Even if your engine blew up, the excellent care specialist would not return your call.

A lot of people are in the same boat unknowingly. You just happen to have uncommon information.

The car maintenance you get done is what helps your car stay in good shape longer.

You should get the oil analysed to figure what engine element is falling apart.

Already you can use a magnet to test magnetic properties of your oil sample (steel vs.light alloy).

If particles were stuck at the bottom of your oil pan instead of trapped in the oil filter, it may be heavier steel pieces such as the soft VVT lock pins getting ready to call you attention.

Use MB recommended oil or better grade, changed often or around 7.5kMi.

BenzV12

Sorry to hear that . We have many members well past 100K miles without any major problems with their engines .
CaliBenzDriver has a point at his last paragraph . I still wish there's nothing serious with your engine unless you see enormous clouds of smoke when you drive it or excessive "oil burning"

DFWdude

Title says 27,800 miles... or is it 127,800?

donparrish

A reply to all who have responded. Car is gas. I am the second owner beginning at 13,000 miles. Car now has just a few miles short of 28,000. Car has been properly serviced during my ownership. Slivers and particles found in oil filter...both aluminum and steel. At present the engine "sounds" like it is coming apart. Not really drivable unless you have a tow truck ready behind you. The question today is what is it worth with a trashed engine. Otherwise the car is pristine. Interior is like new. No smokers. No pets. I will never know or understand why this engine is failing at such low mileage.
Don Parrish

juanmor40

I hope it is clear that there will ALWAYS be metal in the oil after every oil change (after a reasonable mileage), it is called wear. It is only a concern when the amount of metal and the type of metal is beyond specifications for the mileage of the engine. Do you have an oil analysis with quantitative values? Unfortunately qualitative means nothing in engineering/forensic analysis. My Indy mentioned the oil showed shiny particles under the light (nothing quantitative). Nothing that keeps me awake at night because the engine runs smooth, with no noises, no leaks, and nothing out of specs in the live data. However, I moved from 10K miles oil services to 5K miles. Just got it serviced (90K), and I can tell the oil is new by how smoothly the engine runs.

In my opinion, the M272 engines of the last generation (post-balance shaft mess) are bulletproof engines if properly maintained. They have issues like any device, but their issues have been summarized in the forum.

juanmor40

Really sorry the damage is that advanced. Would you mind posting your VIN number? If I recall correctly, 2009/10/11 uses the M272 engine, and 2013/14/15/16 uses the M276, but do not recall if the M276 made it in 2012 or not. Sister's 2012 ML350 uses the M276. If it is an M276, for 2012, it has the timing chain tensioner and check valve issue which will trigger early wear of the camshaft adjusters. How bad? Rattling sound at startup that would go away when oil pressure was high enough, CEL light with timing issues as it progressed, and required new adjusters plus timing components when damaged. did you hear anything abnormal over time? or it suddenly happened?

A comment on the service. Based on mileage this car would have had at maximum 3 services: A @10K, B @20K, and A@30K. Not many at all. Based on age, it should have had at least 10 services, basically oil, oil filters, and brake fluid.

donparrish

For any who may be interested: VIN for this 2012 E-350 is WDDHF5KB5CA563210. Purchased, 2nd owner, at just under 14K miles, Aug 2017. Service since purchase: At approximately 20K serviced but I do not have the invoice for that. Beyond that: 25K-- Jul 2018, 26.5K-- Oct 2020, 27.9K--Feb 2023. All services by qualified service personnel using oil and filters as specified by MB. With odo at just under 28,000 miles, this car has been driven about 14,000 miles in 5 1/2 years.
I have no knowledge of service to this car prior to my purchase. It was a car coming off a lease.

juanmor40

Here is the data card for that VIN, and the document listing the engine serial numbers with timing chain tensioner/check valve issues. Your engine is definitely one of the early in the M276/9 series -> 30 085275.

From your service dates, and mileage the car has been sitting for a long time, not GOOD. For example 14K/5year = 3K/year (hopefully real miles). Hopefully, it was serviced before delivery in 2017. After that 20K service, it has been serviced 3 times in 5 years. As far as I understand, cars that sit for too long between starts need pre-emptive help to prevent rust to scratch surfaces when starting. It is not clear if the car was warmed up occasionally between the occasional driving, or sat for 2 years and then driven 1K miles.

Have you got a diagnosis from an MB specialist (not just a professional mechanic) familiar with these engines? Sister's 2012 W166 M276/9 is also within the range specified in the service bulletin; however, it is serviced every 5K (on the clock) and it has reached 120K+ w/o any engine issue (but a CPS @110K).
Fingers crossed it is a consequence of the chain tensioners rattle, and you can get away with a major engine repair, but not engine replacement. You need an specialist to look carefully on this engine for you. Definitely long-term damaged has been done, but who knows how much can be saved?

chassis

Condolences, if the engine is actually falling apart.

You have shown no photos of Blackstone report, and no qualified mechanic diagnosis or service invoice. What information are you using for your assessment?

Again, bummer if this is happening, but you have provided scant information.

CaliBenzDriver

it could well be an unscrupulous foul trying to force you out of the driver seat to buy your gem: DON'T DO IT!
Get a second opinion you can trust before making any decision.

Engine oil is fairly cleaned by the (8um) OEM filter cartridge. The issue has more to do with burnt oil not lubricating.

Engine oil is one thing but now transmission oil and brake system need timely service before they develop their own attention getters.

MBNUT1

Please provide a better description of the noise and when it occurs.

pierrejoliat

I would bet it's the timing chain tensioner, my 2012 with 30,000 miles has just started to get a little louder on startup, in mine it's timing chain rattle, I can hear it, it now lasts for the first minute and a half after starting, this time is getting longer over the course of the last six months, now, I have to say sometimes it's a month between start-ups, but is is extending the time of the rattle from 30 seconds to the minute and a half I mentioned, sometime this summer I will have the timing chain tensioners replaced, I thought there was a service bulletin on this but Ive owned the car now for 11 years, JuanMor40 may have covered that above in post #11

donparrish

First, I want to thank all that have replied. Let me make a few things a bit more clear: The professional opinion I am working from today is a "second" opinion, the first from highly qualified independent MB mechanic, the second from another independent repair service which is noted by many to have some of the best MB mechanics in Phoenix. Neither of these two have made any remote indication they would like to buy this car.
I have seen the photographic evidence of what's in the oil filter. There is no reason to think these are like the dirty air cleaner supposedly remove from your car at the quick lube shop. Having a good bit of experience with oil/metal problems from several thousand hours in turbine aircraft, what I see is bad.
If that is not good enough, anyone listening to the car now would certainly agree it must be bad, very bad.
To refine the "noise" progression: (Although not driven a great many miles over the last few years, the car was driven on a regular basis, short trips but always up to operating temperature.) Beginning probably about 500 to 700 miles back there was what I could only describe as a tick at start-up. After driving and coming to full temp, the tick was still there. Could not be heard in the car. Perhaps my first mistake, I should have stopped then. Over time it became a bit worse and I began to hear the noise inside the car. In the last 50 miles or less, the problem was much more pronounced, and I began talking to the first "opinion". I made note of sounds now and can report at start-up it is more than a tick, at 1000 rpm it is much more noticeable. Car in Park, advancing the rpm from there it becomes more like an engine wanting to come apart. At one time the sound seemed to reduce significantly above 2500 rpm' not now. The car can be moved around a bit at idle rpm but advancing the throttle seems to be asking for it to come apart.
My second opinion service center was aware of "L105.10-P-056435" but due to the tick or rattling noise never dissipating after sufficient oil pressure, that was not the problem. Arguable point? Perhaps, but not from me.
Bottom line today. Retired, not wealthy but comfortable. Already have two cars, a truck (and a '67 Corvette), don't need the MB. May have to admit that perhaps some of all this is my fault. I can do that and I can afford to say that. That's not being arrogant, I worked hard to get here. My choice today is an expensive repair (no doubt, it is an MB) or install a used engine also not inexpensive. Either of those choices cost near or above $10K and in the end the car is still a 2012 worth what (?) and waiting for the next shoe to drop. So...the MB will go. Make me an offer.
Thanks again to all for your input,
Don Parrish Phoenix

juanmor40

very sad. For your information, one of the most active members in MBWorld (if not the most), @konigstiger is located in North Scottsdale, AZ.

Arrie

So, it is the DI engine with the high pressure fuel pumps.

I just had this weird noise coming from my S550 278 engine. See link below.

I have not seen video or other recording what kind of a noise OP has but mine sounded like metal is rattling somewhere and was given the hint of it coming from the high pressure fuel pump. I replaced both pumps and the "roller" lifters and sound is gone. I think it was really one of the lifters that had worn extra clearance, but I changed everything as I was there...

Could it be this same issue...?

https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...ine-noise.html

donparrish

Arrie,
Not my engine. See my post today at 07:26 for my sad story.
Don Parrish

Arrie

Well, I read thru all posts in this thread but could not find any recording to listen. Just writing about it does not tell much.

juanmor40

Don, the M278 engine is the big brother of the M276/9 you have. They are siblings of the same technology, and share some parts, and unfortunately share similar issues.



It is very common to discuss them as the same engine except where they differ of course.

A recording, if you think the engine will tolerate more running time, will give some in the forum a chance to give you a more informed comment. The W212 group is one of the most active groups in MBWorld, and will honestly try to pitch informed comments.

Arrie

Not your engine but I would not be a bit surprised if they used the exact same high pressure fuel pump.

donparrish

Arrie:
I will admit here my inability to post the recording I have which is 1:16. Made with my iPhone but not able to move to an email form for posting.
Suffice it to say, the pronounced knocking at 2000-2500 and beyond is loud and severe.
Don

E55Greasemonkey

Without a picture of the alleged metal particles I'm going to say it's highly unlikely there's anything wrong with your engine. I've taken apart a few MB oil filters and every one, EVERY time had traces of metal flakes especially when shining a flashlight into the bottom of the oil filter housing. I stopped doing it as I found it to be a pointless exercise. This is normal, and my 190k mile m272 engine is living proof.

pierrejoliat

Don, first, is the noise coming from the front of the engine? you can use an old paper towel tube pressed against your ear and focused to where the sound is coming from, it's always possible that it's some thing other than the timing chain but those are seemingly rare occurances and your story is very unique. I might have it towed to the indy and see after the front cover is removed if indeed it is the tensioner, after making the determination that the sound is coming from the front of the engine. Since your in PHX, the Koenigstiger link up was an excellent suggestion. I have a house in the Catalina Foothills and a great mechanic in downtown Tucson, but seems you have that covered and are an hour and a half north.I live in CLE, so 98% of my mechanical work is done in Ohio. I'd just hate to see you give up a great car that would last forever in that climate over a 800.00 or less timing chain issue, Also you seem to have 6 posts, I don't think you can attach documents until you have ten or so, not sure of the number. ?

I also must tell you your car is worth twice to three times it's whole value in parts, yes, it sits for a while, but this happened to me with my '03 S500, insurance offered 8K, got more than 16K in parts, yes, most I removed myself, but the engine and tranny brought 4k all by themselves. Sad to think, but Im retired also, so time is less of an issue, hard to watch the pieces leave however, but with that mileage the pieces have real value.