Gekko

https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...898#post579898

bmms8

i just love your thread

S55inPA

one thing i that i know is MB fans everywhere can count on is this........

MB will never manufacture an autombile that is as ugly, boring, dull, uninspiring, unoriginal, completely forgetful, and bland as the Lexus ES300 or any other Lexus product.

so when in it comes to who's copying who.....don't hold your breath

I was framed.

I guess MB should copy Lexus' excellent quality, craftsmenship, reliability, and oh did I forget reliability?

W210

Don't forget the absolute lack of feel. For what you are paying, a fully loaded Camry beats the ES300.

vraa

I don't see how you can even compare the ES and the S-Class without feeling dirty.

S55inPA

hey guys,

i've been involved in many discussions of Lexus vs MB. what amazes me in all of these discussions is that the only thing that is positive in Lexus favor is the reliablility issue. granted that is a true plus for any consumer when making a purchase but.....it is only one...1....uno... part of the decision process.

when it comes to Lexus reliability...it is undeniably very good. but...craftsmanship and quality????? if your going to use these terms than maybe you should define them because both of them are so subjective.

Lexus autos imho are nice cars. are they as nice as MB's and BMW's and Audi's....no way.....never. they are a nice car for the price. Lexus is a copier not an innovator. everything that is in a Lexus can be had 2 to 3 years earlier in a German car. sometimes 5 or more years earlier.

when it comes to the exterior appearance of any Lexus product. there is nothing inspiring or anything remotely unique to say "wow that is a beautiful car". the best compliment is usually "yeah it's ok looking ...but at least it has good reliability".
Lexus still...after a decade doesn't have a clue as to what there cars should look like.

if "reliability" is what you want ... i say go for it. buy a Lexus......and while your at it make sure you pick up a subscription to consumer reports. you can live your life but what they say is " best ".....because what is painfully obvious is that you look at the purchase of a fine automobile the same way you look at the purchase of a washing machine....just another appliance.

I was framed.

Well, if you want technology would you want technology with crap reliability? That's what I've experienced with my E320.

If you're going to be an "innovater" be sure your products stand the test of time. I mean c'mon, after 10k in my E320, the interior bulbs burn out. Nothing highly innovative about interior lights but even those aren't all that reliable.

Maybe MB should spend more time concentrating on the reliability and build instead of being the innovater... and repairer because this is probably one of the only things that's holding back my "MB experience."

I seriously don't get why so many people bag on Lexus. I admit I used to be one of those people, but now that I own one, I'm a believer. MB on the other hand, I thought it was supposed to be a dream car that kids would grow up dreaming to drive. The experience has been anything but.

W210

I absolutely agree. If Toyota can copy the safety, high performance and driving dynamics of any of the German cars, then I may pay some attention, for now, no thanks.

The sad part is that most Lexus owners continue to have MB envy thus they still peek and see what's the latest (from whom they copy from). You'll never catch me dead snooping around Lexus boards!

Gekko

S55inPA -

The experts at Car and Driver disagree with you...

$70,000 Luxury Sedans

We test six sedans for those who can plunk down $100,000 and say, 'Keep the change.'
BY PATRICK BEDARD
PHOTOGRAPHY BY AARON KILEY
December 2003

Let's just say that a guy who engineers for himself a $197.2 million retirement package as head of the New York Stock Exchange probably doesn't see himself in a Hyundai. So we're thinking large this month, inspired by the appetites of Dick Grasso. What's a good set of wheels for those make-do days when the chauffeur is off?

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1

Try to get out of Wilkes-Barre every once in a while.

Gekko

>"The sad part is that most Lexus owners continue to have MB envy thus they still peek and see what's the latest (from whom they copy from). You'll never catch me dead snooping around Lexus boards!"

No, but I do enjoy reading about all of your MB horror stories, it makes me appreciate my Lexus that much more:

1. Atrocious dealer service pre/post sale.
2. Parts falling off of brand new cars.
3. Doors painted a different color than the rest of the brand new car and subseqent dealer runaround.
4. NAV replacement fiascos.
5. $64K+ RAGtops.
6. CD Players NOT STANDARD.
7. No DVD NAV.
8. Brand new cars that just won't start and need multiple visits to dealer.
9. Locks that lock and unlock mysteriously.
10. Other quality/service issues too numerous to mention but well documented on this board.

It's simply amazing what you guys put up with and how much extra you pay for it. If you are happy, God bless. To each his own.

W210

But of course, Dick needs a cheap humble low profile image for all the mess he got himself into, a Toyota will be his perfect car

Gekko

I'll take a Toyota over a Chrysler any day!

W210

Ah, now I understand why so many Lexus owners like to hang out here. Your enjoyment sounds pretty sad to me, but each to his own!

Gekko

I don't "hang" here - and I only have a few posts. Don't flatter yourself. You're not that interesting and I have better things to do. Good night.

1SICKLEX

Personally, I love the AMG cars. Since the C32. Benz is still the #1 recognized luxury car maker. So props to it. Lexus does fix many of Benz's ideas. Yes. Is that bad? No. I think Benz's now look like Japanese cars, is that bad, no. Copying, yes. Who doesn't?

I have never seen a Benz competitor to the original SC 300/400. The RX 300 was the first car based SUV (that eveyone now copied). I prefer Lexus ergonomics (less busy dash). I like the styling. The ownership experience. There is no Benz as sporty as the IS 300 stock.

To each his/her own. Both are fine cars with pros/cons. We could be arguing Kia/Hyandai here.

W210

I'm not flattering myself but only making fun of your obscene obsession going as far as summarizing problems on a car which you don't even have.

Next time I have a problem with my car, I'll sure post it here for your enjoyment.

Good night and take it easy.

W210

Talking about copying, I think many German cars did copy the Japanese? moving the window switches from the centre console to the door. Personally, I think it's a silly move as I prefer my passenger to have access to all four windows.

I hope Lexus will join the horsepower war for the name of competition!

S55inPA

hey guys,

first off... maybe i was too harsh in my first post. the ES and SC's are truly unattractive and uninspired designs. the rest of the Lexus line is much more palatable but not one has the needed "wow" factor for me to actually purchase one.

....gekko....i get car & driver and just about every other major auto publication. in most of these publications the S class does very well. i was surprised at the end result of that particular article but one poor showing does not diminish the true excellence of the S class.

horror stories? isn't that a bit of an exaggeration. you make it sound like MB's are put together by a blind man in a garage without any tools. get serious. like i said...if it weren't for the reliability issue you wouldn't have a leg to stand on in your argument.

i wonder if you were offered for free an S500 or an LS 430 which one you would take??

and what's with the comment i should get out of WB more often...did you bump your head or something??

here's another observation.....if people actually take the time to join a forum to discuss cars....why would they view them with such a lack of passion that all they really want out of an automobile is a unattractive box with 4 wheels.

tifosiv122

WoW! How dumb are you?

TOYOTA OWNS AND DESIGNS LEXUS

MERCEDES OWNS CHRYSLER, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!

You don't see a Chrysler designed Mercedes do you?

If you drive a Lexus ES it's just a fancy Camary that you paid more for...

Erik

Guest0001

How old are you?

Gekko

Mercedes should have never came out with the C-Class. It de-valued and cheapened the brand for two reasons. One, it took MB's reputation for poor quality to a whole new depth. Two, and most importantly, the cheap price allowed a large group of poor, juvenile wannabes that are concerned with displaying a perceived but false "status", access to and the continued degradation of a *ONCE* great and exclusive brand. You know what the "C" stands for, don't you? "Cheap".

Guest0001

Wow you really are stupid.

vraa

Just ignore him, everything that's come out of his mouth is pure trash, and I'm the Lexus fanboy too! Grr.. Gekko, you're on a thin line making personal attacks, keep it to the companies in general.

You want to know what my car is? Nothing.

Want to know why? Because Lexus is giving my *** the run around.

All companies suck, let's keep the arguments car related only.

I was framed.

Actually he has a point... I'm sure everyone has heard the saying "quality over quantity." What I think is that MB is now concentrating more on quantity and abandoning their quality roots. I remember way back when dinosaurs walked the earth, MB's were like the boss on the road. Nowadays they're only depending on the name of the brand to be boss and they're lossing the boss position.

A close friend of mine had a 199x(3?) C230 (220 or 230?) and the engine flat out failed in December. He also has a LS400 that was bought at the same time as the C230 and that car is as solid as the first day.

Until MB manages to pull their act together again, I'm going to hold off my order for an AMG. I've always wanted one but for a car in that price range I would expect perfection. Until then, I'll be happily driving my GS300 and in between that I'll be driving my wifes E320 to the dealer to fix yet another problem.