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Well, reading this forum apparently this isn't a new issue, lots of folks have had this problem. Our 2020 GLS450 with 31k miles on it just went into limp mode w/ a 48v battery malfunction message. Eventually it went away, with engine light on for a couple hours, then that went away now too. Seems to be driving fine now with no error messages. Car will be out of warranty in July, have to take it in now. What's the fix? New battery? I think that MB did eventually create a recall campaign on this. There's been a lot of weird little errors that eventually go away, losing faith in this car
In your first picture, the symbol looks like it is a 12-V battery issue and not the 48-V battery. See symbol differences on pages 612 & 613 of the manual.
If 48V technology was really so wonderful, it wouldn't shut down an otherwise operable vehicle. Some might regard it as a great innovation, but it will never occupy my garage.
I know there's a recall campaign for the "grounding" of the 48v battery. Not sure that is what is causing this... Anyone else know what the fix has been? Thx.
Not sure if it's great tech or not, what I do know is that a malfunction in a fairly new car is concerning. Especially since warranty is over in a few months, don't want a bunch of expensive problems after warranty expired. Considering selling this car...
I know there's a recall campaign for the "grounding" of the 48v battery. Not sure that is what is causing this... Anyone else know what the fix has been? Thx.
I know what "grounding" Boeing's 737MAX meant -- is this the same? (lol)
Not sure if it's great tech or not, what I do know is that a malfunction in a fairly new car is concerning. Especially since warranty is over in a few months, don't want a bunch of expensive problems after warranty expired. Considering selling this car...
A 4 year old Mercedes is not what I would call "fairly new". That's right about when major problems start happening.
Oh really? 3.5 years old and 31k miles is where major problems happen? Good to know next time I drop 90k on a car that I should expect major problems after driving it less than 10k miles per year.
I know there's a recall campaign for the "grounding" of the 48v battery. Not sure that is what is causing this... Anyone else know what the fix has been? Thx.
That recall concerns proper grounding to prevent a fire from the 48V system:
Oh really? 3.5 years old and 31k miles is where major problems happen? Good to know next time I drop 90k on a car that I should expect major problems after driving it less than 10k miles per year.
We don't know if it's a major problem yet. It could be a software fix, worst case scenario it's the 48v battery (replaced under warranty) and even if it was out of pocket, the estimate from past discussions is $1700-1800 for the battery and labor (battery is $1250 part #000-982-44-20-64).
Is it going to break the bank with someone who can afford a $90k car? No. Is it an annoying expense in the pursuit of luxury? Yes.
Also in some states the 48v battery falls into emissions parts and has an extended warranty beyond the 4yrs/50k mi.
When it comes to luxury cars, high price tags don’t always guarantee reliability. There is no guarantee trouble-free ownership with prestige, no matter the brand.
If 48V technology was really so wonderful, it wouldn't shut down an otherwise operable vehicle. Some might regard it as a great innovation, but it will never occupy my garage.
48v is nothing revolutionary, it's still DC power simply at a higher voltage. It does seem that there was a batch of sketchy 48v batteries but nothing indicates that using 48v power itself is the issue. A failed 12v battery will also prevent an otherwise operable vehicle from running.
48v is nothing revolutionary, it's still DC power simply at a higher voltage. It does seem that there was a batch of sketchy 48v batteries but nothing indicates that using 48v power itself is the issue. A failed 12v battery will also prevent an otherwise operable vehicle from running.
Indeed -- I can series wire 4 12 volt AGM batteries. Lithium technology is the difference -- packing as much energy as possible into as small a form factor as possible, and then subjecting it to shock, vibration and temperature ranges that need to be moderated in an attempt to attain some degree of reliability. There shouldn't be anything new here -- motor/generators, regenerative braking, voltage regulation, etc. But when problems surface that leave the German brainiacs scratching their heads, my conclusion is that automotive 48V is still not ready for prime time.
But when problems surface that leave the German brainiacs scratching their heads, my conclusion is that automotive 48V is still not ready for prime time.
Just want to note that all the Germans are using 48v (VAG, BMW) in their powertrains. Fiat used it in a Ram. Tesla uses it in the cyber truck. Lexus in the Rx. Land Rover with the Range Rover. Bentley with the Bentyaga. With EV sales tanking, I wonder if we might see even more in the coming years.
Indeed -- I can series wire 4 12 volt AGM batteries. Lithium technology is the difference -- packing as much energy as possible into as small a form factor as possible, and then subjecting it to shock, vibration and temperature ranges that need to be moderated in an attempt to attain some degree of reliability. There shouldn't be anything new here -- motor/generators, regenerative braking, voltage regulation, etc. But when problems surface that leave the German brainiacs scratching their heads, my conclusion is that automotive 48V is still not ready for prime time.
Lithium batteries aren't new either. They've been around for a couple decades now and been continually refined. In the specific instance of MB's current implementation I have a hard time believing it is anything other than a bad batch of product from their supplier combined with some terrible diagnostic/warning messages. In the days of dash spanning screens we should be able to get more diagnostic info than "48v Battery, see operator's manual". Time will tell how things shake out I suppose.
Originally Posted by wildta
Just want to note that all the Germans are using 48v (VAG, BMW) in their powertrains. Fiat used it in a Ram. Tesla uses it in the cyber truck. Lexus in the Rx. Land Rover with the Range Rover. Bentley with the Bentyaga. With EV sales tanking, I wonder if we might see even more in the coming years.
Yes you will. The automotive industry in general is transitioning to 48v. It grants benefits like high power electric things (Steering Assist, Mild Hybrid, E-ABC, Electric AC Compressor, etc...) and lower gauge/less wiring to power existing electric consumers (less weight, less circuits).
Lithium batteries aren't new either. They've been around for a couple decades now and been continually refined. In the specific instance of MB's current implementation I have a hard time believing it is anything other than a bad batch of product from their supplier combined with some terrible diagnostic/warning messages. In the days of dash spanning screens we should be able to get more diagnostic info than "48v Battery, see operator's manual". Time will tell how things shake out I suppose.
Yes you will. The automotive industry in general is transitioning to 48v. It grants benefits like high power electric things (Steering Assist, Mild Hybrid, E-ABC, Electric AC Compressor, etc...) and lower gauge/less wiring to power existing electric consumers (less weight, less circuits).
I agree.
I'm happy to have my water pump, AC, suspension, starter and other things powered by a 48 volt system.
48 volt systems yield many advantages, and while lithium battery technology has been around for some years, lithium batteries have far less than a stellar safety record. Products ranging from smart phones to hover boards to ebikes to automobiles to commercial jets have experienced lithium battery spontaneous combustion. Then there was the Felicity Ace RORO that sank with 4000 vehicles from a fire suspected to have originated in a Porsche EV's battery. The current technology is not yet mature, while developers continue to push for more energy in smaller packages thinking "we'll fix the problems in the next design". Nobody questions the combustibility of a can of gasoline, despite that it requires oxygen and a source of ignition to burn. Lithium batteries need neither -- only the smallest construction defect can (and does) yield bomb potential.
48 volt systems yield many advantages, and while lithium battery technology has been around for some years, lithium batteries have far less than a stellar safety record. Products ranging from smart phones to hover boards to ebikes to automobiles to commercial jets have experienced lithium battery spontaneous combustion. Then there was the Felicity Ace RORO that sank with 4000 vehicles from a fire suspected to have originated in a Porsche EV's battery. The current technology is not yet mature, while developers continue to push for more energy in smaller packages thinking "we'll fix the problems in the next design". Nobody questions the combustibility of a can of gasoline, despite that it requires oxygen and a source of ignition to burn. Lithium batteries need neither -- only the smallest construction defect can (and does) yield bomb potential.
Yes, lithium batteries can fail spectacularly and make the news, but there are many more that go their entire lifetime without issue.
As an RC hobbyist I've been working with unprotected lithium batteries (no BMS or fuses) for almost 20 years now. I have not been kind to them:
Recharged from 0v
Continued to use swollen batteries
Overcharged
Overdischarged
Charged too quickly
Short circuited
Physically damaged
No fires and only a couple of them truly died from internal shorts. Most things were incidental. Recently I've started converting my UPS batteries from AGM to LiFePo4 as well for extra capacity/longer life.
Yes my experience is a sample size of one and I'm not dealing with multiple kilowatts of capacity either but I'm really not concerned with small (< 10kw) lithium batteries in cars. The benefits outweigh the risks. Full on EVs of course have enough capacity to power a home for a while and if compromised are almost always catastrophic.
Yes, lithium batteries can fail spectacularly and make the news, but there are many more that go their entire lifetime without issue.
As an RC hobbyist I've been working with unprotected lithium batteries (no BMS or fuses) for almost 20 years now. I have not been kind to them:
Recharged from 0v
Continued to use swollen batteries
Overcharged
Overdischarged
Charged too quickly
Short circuited
Physically damaged
No fires and only a couple of them truly died from internal shorts. Most things were incidental. Recently I've started converting my UPS batteries from AGM to LiFePo4 as well for extra capacity/longer life.
Yes my experience is a sample size of one and I'm not dealing with multiple kilowatts of capacity either but I'm really not concerned with small (< 10kw) lithium batteries in cars. The benefits outweigh the risks. Full on EVs of course have enough capacity to power a home for a while and if compromised are almost always catastrophic.
I don't mean to unfairly diss all lithium batteries. Like you, I have a collection of power tools, PCs, flashlights, mobile devices, etc. that are powered with lithium cells, and I've never experienced any issues other than end-of-life. Still, all the freight carriers avoid shipping these devices without special marking and handling, and some will not ship by air (this sometimes applies to all types of batteries). Hopefully the auto industry's growing pains with these batteries will end soon.
I don't mean to unfairly diss all lithium batteries. Like you, I have a collection of power tools, PCs, flashlights, mobile devices, etc. that are powered with lithium cells, and I've never experienced any issues other than end-of-life. Still, all the freight carriers avoid shipping these devices without special marking and handling, and some will not ship by air (this sometimes applies to all types of batteries). Hopefully the auto industry's growing pains with these batteries will end soon.
I have the sense that the UN regulations around transporting lithium batteries are a typical "ban everything"/"eliminate all risk" reaction driven by the "we must do something" mentality rather than a sign of a lithium battery problem. IMO there is no battery problem. Batteries are energy containers just like gasoline. Of course there is a potential for fire, but it isn't a defect or growing pain. We're going to have to either accept that or move to another type of energy storage container that will likely have its own potential issues.
My 2020 GLS580 (it currently has 39700 miles) is having problems: the car does not start and has to be towed to dealer for repair, they provided following reasons at various times
1) Software update fixed the issue
2) Second time the 24 volt battery terminal was painted over which caused intermittent non start
3) reprogramed the computer would fix the issue
4) I took the car in today for same non start issue, they said there is recall and checked the car computer while I was there and determined that there is battery issue
I am wondering should I claim that I have a lemon and need a replacement car?
Any suggestions, advice pleas chime in
Cheers
Zia
04-21-2024, 11:38 PM
