Size of the HE S65 vs S600
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,342
Likes: 11
From: PA
S600, GL450, GLC 43
Size of the HE S65 vs S600
Okay:
I have spoken with my local MB parts department, and looked at the drawings for each. And have came up with this conclusion, along with my parts manager from Bobby Rahal MB.
1. They both have the EXACT mounting tabs/location
2. They utilize the same plumbing
3. They are the same mounting dimensions, aka cooler size
4. The S65 does say High heat, more fins, thicker core just a guess
5. The S600 costs $450, the S65 costs $900
So, with this said, I don't think there is ANYTHING to be gained from using a factory S65 HE, which means aftermarket.
I know Eurocharged has one, which I will probably get unless someone here has some more info.
Anyone have ideas about our lovely heat soak issues?
PS: Please don't come back and say new intercoolers as this is out of my price range and most others here, aka Brabus $12K units.
I have spoken with my local MB parts department, and looked at the drawings for each. And have came up with this conclusion, along with my parts manager from Bobby Rahal MB.
1. They both have the EXACT mounting tabs/location
2. They utilize the same plumbing
3. They are the same mounting dimensions, aka cooler size
4. The S65 does say High heat, more fins, thicker core just a guess
5. The S600 costs $450, the S65 costs $900
So, with this said, I don't think there is ANYTHING to be gained from using a factory S65 HE, which means aftermarket.
I know Eurocharged has one, which I will probably get unless someone here has some more info.
Anyone have ideas about our lovely heat soak issues?
PS: Please don't come back and say new intercoolers as this is out of my price range and most others here, aka Brabus $12K units.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,895
Likes: 53
From: Maryland
'14 E63S & '14 Audi SQ5
Okay:
I have spoken with my local MB parts department, and looked at the drawings for each. And have came up with this conclusion, along with my parts manager from Bobby Rahal MB.
1. They both have the EXACT mounting tabs/location
2. They utilize the same plumbing
3. They are the same mounting dimensions, aka cooler size
4. The S65 does say High heat, more fins, thicker core just a guess
5. The S600 costs $450, the S65 costs $900
So, with this said, I don't think there is ANYTHING to be gained from using a factory S65 HE, which means aftermarket.
I know Eurocharged has one, which I will probably get unless someone here has some more info.
Anyone have ideas about our lovely heat soak issues?
PS: Please don't come back and say new intercoolers as this is out of my price range and most others here, aka Brabus $12K units.
I have spoken with my local MB parts department, and looked at the drawings for each. And have came up with this conclusion, along with my parts manager from Bobby Rahal MB.
1. They both have the EXACT mounting tabs/location
2. They utilize the same plumbing
3. They are the same mounting dimensions, aka cooler size
4. The S65 does say High heat, more fins, thicker core just a guess
5. The S600 costs $450, the S65 costs $900
So, with this said, I don't think there is ANYTHING to be gained from using a factory S65 HE, which means aftermarket.
I know Eurocharged has one, which I will probably get unless someone here has some more info.
Anyone have ideas about our lovely heat soak issues?
PS: Please don't come back and say new intercoolers as this is out of my price range and most others here, aka Brabus $12K units.
I know RENNtech has a supplemental HE and upgraded IC pump with their "intercooler package" which retails for about $4K.
I guess you will probably want to go custom like this:
https://mbworld.org/forums/sl55-amg-...l65-sl600.html
Tom
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,342
Likes: 11
From: PA
S600, GL450, GLC 43
By the way, where is Chris these days
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,455
Likes: 11
From: Long Island, NY
W220 S65 AMG
I have not been on this site in about 5 months or so... sorry.
Here is a S65 HE...
About twice as tall and has a small P/S cooler on top which replaces the meandering pipe that is used for P/S cooling on the 600s.
Here is a S65 HE...
About twice as tall and has a small P/S cooler on top which replaces the meandering pipe that is used for P/S cooling on the 600s.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,342
Likes: 11
From: PA
S600, GL450, GLC 43
So the question is, do we use one of these babies, or go with Eurocharged?
Or simply put, what did you do
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2003 CL600 2005 745Li
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,605
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
Upgrading the pump seems to make a lot of sense, but I still like the idea of a full-height HE, like the S65. Some earlier cars have zig-zag pipes for PAS cooling, but mine has the PAS cooler built into the AC condenser (like the S65 does using the HE, I think). So there's space for a full-height HE.
The after-market HE's from Speedriven and Eurocharged are deep but low-height. Its strangely difficult to find out their dimensions, but I think they're about 600 x 180 x 75 mm. A full-height HE would be around 600 x 500 x 20 mm - so different proportions, but similar volume (and presumably surface area) of the core.
However, we don't know much about what makes HE's tick, and what were the choices that the designers originally made. For example, if you increase the core depth from 20mm to 75mm, you'll get more heat transfer for the same air flow rate. However, the flow rate WON'T be the same, as the flow restriction is higher, so in the real world, less air will pass through the HE.
More than that, if a deep HE is covering the lower half of the water rad, that will encourage the air to by-pass the HE, and flow through the top half instead. That will tend to negate the extra cooling capability of the thicker HE, but we don't know by how much. The tuning companies don't tell us that - they sell us packages with bigger HE's and other tuning measures, and tell us how much extra power the overall package gives. We don't know what the components do individually - either in terms of increased power, or reduced IATs, for example.
With a full-height HE, there won't be anywhere else for the air to go - other than through the HE and the condensor and the rad. A full-height HE will increase the overall flow resistance throught the water rad, but car makers have been figuring this out for years, and now virtually all air-con condensors are full-height, but just 16mm thick. If a half-height / double-thickness condenser was a good solution, that's what everyone would be doing, but they're not.
This is largely supposition, but I suspect that a full-height HE is the best solution, and if I can use a stock aircon condenser to do the job, it would be very cost-effective.
Nick
The after-market HE's from Speedriven and Eurocharged are deep but low-height. Its strangely difficult to find out their dimensions, but I think they're about 600 x 180 x 75 mm. A full-height HE would be around 600 x 500 x 20 mm - so different proportions, but similar volume (and presumably surface area) of the core.
However, we don't know much about what makes HE's tick, and what were the choices that the designers originally made. For example, if you increase the core depth from 20mm to 75mm, you'll get more heat transfer for the same air flow rate. However, the flow rate WON'T be the same, as the flow restriction is higher, so in the real world, less air will pass through the HE.
More than that, if a deep HE is covering the lower half of the water rad, that will encourage the air to by-pass the HE, and flow through the top half instead. That will tend to negate the extra cooling capability of the thicker HE, but we don't know by how much. The tuning companies don't tell us that - they sell us packages with bigger HE's and other tuning measures, and tell us how much extra power the overall package gives. We don't know what the components do individually - either in terms of increased power, or reduced IATs, for example.
With a full-height HE, there won't be anywhere else for the air to go - other than through the HE and the condensor and the rad. A full-height HE will increase the overall flow resistance throught the water rad, but car makers have been figuring this out for years, and now virtually all air-con condensors are full-height, but just 16mm thick. If a half-height / double-thickness condenser was a good solution, that's what everyone would be doing, but they're not.
This is largely supposition, but I suspect that a full-height HE is the best solution, and if I can use a stock aircon condenser to do the job, it would be very cost-effective.
Nick
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 939
Likes: 5
From: Del Mar, CA
2003 CL600 2005 745Li
Upgrading the pump seems to make a lot of sense, but I still like the idea of a full-height HE, like the S65. Some earlier cars have zig-zag pipes for PAS cooling, but mine has the PAS cooler built into the AC condenser (like the S65 does using the HE, I think). So there's space for a full-height HE.
The after-market HE's from Speedriven and Eurocharged are deep but low-height. Its strangely difficult to find out their dimensions, but I think they're about 600 x 180 x 75 mm. A full-height HE would be around 600 x 500 x 20 mm - so different proportions, but similar volume (and presumably surface area) of the core.
However, we don't know much about what makes HE's tick, and what were the choices that the designers originally made. For example, if you increase the core depth from 20mm to 75mm, you'll get more heat transfer for the same air flow rate. However, the flow rate WON'T be the same, as the flow restriction is higher, so in the real world, less air will pass through the HE.
More than that, if a deep HE is covering the lower half of the water rad, that will encourage the air to by-pass the HE, and flow through the top half instead. That will tend to negate the extra cooling capability of the thicker HE, but we don't know by how much. The tuning companies don't tell us that - they sell us packages with bigger HE's and other tuning measures, and tell us how much extra power the overall package gives. We don't know what the components do individually - either in terms of increased power, or reduced IATs, for example.
With a full-height HE, there won't be anywhere else for the air to go - other than through the HE and the condensor and the rad. A full-height HE will increase the overall flow resistance throught the water rad, but car makers have been figuring this out for years, and now virtually all air-con condensors are full-height, but just 16mm thick. If a half-height / double-thickness condenser was a good solution, that's what everyone would be doing, but they're not.
This is largely supposition, but I suspect that a full-height HE is the best solution, and if I can use a stock aircon condenser to do the job, it would be very cost-effective.
Nick
The after-market HE's from Speedriven and Eurocharged are deep but low-height. Its strangely difficult to find out their dimensions, but I think they're about 600 x 180 x 75 mm. A full-height HE would be around 600 x 500 x 20 mm - so different proportions, but similar volume (and presumably surface area) of the core.
However, we don't know much about what makes HE's tick, and what were the choices that the designers originally made. For example, if you increase the core depth from 20mm to 75mm, you'll get more heat transfer for the same air flow rate. However, the flow rate WON'T be the same, as the flow restriction is higher, so in the real world, less air will pass through the HE.
More than that, if a deep HE is covering the lower half of the water rad, that will encourage the air to by-pass the HE, and flow through the top half instead. That will tend to negate the extra cooling capability of the thicker HE, but we don't know by how much. The tuning companies don't tell us that - they sell us packages with bigger HE's and other tuning measures, and tell us how much extra power the overall package gives. We don't know what the components do individually - either in terms of increased power, or reduced IATs, for example.
With a full-height HE, there won't be anywhere else for the air to go - other than through the HE and the condensor and the rad. A full-height HE will increase the overall flow resistance throught the water rad, but car makers have been figuring this out for years, and now virtually all air-con condensors are full-height, but just 16mm thick. If a half-height / double-thickness condenser was a good solution, that's what everyone would be doing, but they're not.
This is largely supposition, but I suspect that a full-height HE is the best solution, and if I can use a stock aircon condenser to do the job, it would be very cost-effective.
Nick
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,605
Likes: 343
From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 290
Likes: 1
From: Toronto
SpeedRiven SL600, ML320CDI
Okay:
I have spoken with my local MB parts department, and looked at the drawings for each. And have came up with this conclusion, along with my parts manager from Bobby Rahal MB.
1. They both have the EXACT mounting tabs/location
2. They utilize the same plumbing
3. They are the same mounting dimensions, aka cooler size
4. The S65 does say High heat, more fins, thicker core just a guess
5. The S600 costs $450, the S65 costs $900
So, with this said, I don't think there is ANYTHING to be gained from using a factory S65 HE, which means aftermarket.
I know Eurocharged has one, which I will probably get unless someone here has some more info.
Anyone have ideas about our lovely heat soak issues?
PS: Please don't come back and say new intercoolers as this is out of my price range and most others here, aka Brabus $12K units.
I have spoken with my local MB parts department, and looked at the drawings for each. And have came up with this conclusion, along with my parts manager from Bobby Rahal MB.
1. They both have the EXACT mounting tabs/location
2. They utilize the same plumbing
3. They are the same mounting dimensions, aka cooler size
4. The S65 does say High heat, more fins, thicker core just a guess
5. The S600 costs $450, the S65 costs $900
So, with this said, I don't think there is ANYTHING to be gained from using a factory S65 HE, which means aftermarket.
I know Eurocharged has one, which I will probably get unless someone here has some more info.
Anyone have ideas about our lovely heat soak issues?
PS: Please don't come back and say new intercoolers as this is out of my price range and most others here, aka Brabus $12K units.
Igor.
