I never said Toyota doesn't have problems, but here's the deal Mercedes competes with Lexus, Toyota competes with Chrysler. Lexus is not Toyota, it's more like Toyota², which means a whooole new set of standards, new assembly plants, new engineers, new quality controls, new everything. So find enough instances of Lexus failures to match Mercedes' and we'll talk .


And regarding the E-class/GS headlights, looks more like an improvement to me than a copy. The Japanese tend to improve upon German ideas, which yields some nice results. Hyundai was the one that made a blatant copy of the GS. Anyway, here are two '98 models, I see a slight ressemblance, but more of an improvement than anything else....

 

Yes it does: Girls are morons, especially that prize catch of yours

Here's a Ford Probe cheesetits....

 

I suppose your broad can't read either? It says 1995 LEXUS SC400 right next to the car . You'd figure you could pick up classier chics with a Benz.... guess not

 

hey i guess it goes to show...a little money and mediocre car don't equal class or dignity.
and by the way ...mr. qualitiy check out this thread....
ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff5315.htm
oh...one more thing...she's a psychologist...and she thinks your suffering from having a small *****!!!!
just kidding!!!!
let's not get personal...keep it to the sheetmetal!!!!

 

if you tilt the probe a little left and when the planets align just a tad bit then i guess its like a probe.. but other then that.. no..

:P

 

and glass and plastic and rubber and leather and countless other things.. :p

 

It's a good thing I don't own a mediocre car then

But is that the BEST you could come up with doing all that frenzied internet searching, is some personal account of some guy getting ripped off by a dealership? One guy and one dealership out of 1200 dealerships and millions of titled/registered cars? Geeze you're right, that must mean Lexus doesn't make Benz-worthy cars after all!!

 

the point was just to show that every brand has it's nightmare stories. besides...all i did was just search for 10 seconds on a search engine to prove a point. if your curious there is more lexus problems on that site.

one last thought......when most people purchase a mercedes benz what do you think they expect? they expect perfection. is that realistic...no ...but they still have this unrealistic expectation. when in their ownership experience they have a problem, i don't think it's unreasonable to assume that some of these people become very frustrated that their "mercedes benz" has had a mechanical problem. right from the moment of purchase a mercedes benz has a very high expectation placed upon it. this expectation has come from having a heritage of manufacturing automobiles that exceed the norm. a heritage i might add that was earned over a century of manufacturing automobiles....not a decade. when i say that mercedes exceeds the norm i just don't mean in quality. i mean in safety, styling, and innovative features throughout the automobile. so....ask yourself this question......when buying a lexus...what are you buying????innovation???no! progressive attractive styling??no!.. your buying an automobile that sticks with good basic design principles. nothing on the edge. ....nothing risky.. that's great...but...mercedes benz goes way beyond good and basic to exotic. mercedes truly pushes the envelope. really take a look at what you can equip an s class with. hey..take a look at what's standard. lexus has nothing even close to compare. the ls is a good car. that in itself is a great accomplishment. but they don't have a great car.......there lies the difference.

 

Not only is Lexus the most reliable new car, but after 5 years of ownership. For what, the past 10 years. That is a fact. Your right, every car has problems, but Lexus has the least period.
A little reading: Autocar June 20, 2001

Made in Germany by Wolfgang Konig

Popular Myth: German Cars are Utterly Reliable

‘An enviable reputation, sure – German cars tend to be built like tanks, last forever, are as sturdy as Rottweilers and utterly reliable – but how true is it?

Well, seems it isn’t true at all. Each year our German sister magazine Auto Motor und Sport, conducts a major survey questioning up to 70,000 car owners. And each year the message is unambiguous: if you want hassle free motoring, you shouldn’t buy a German car.

What you actually need is something made in Japan. Almost any Japanese car will do, apparently, and be more reliable that the best Germany has to offer.

Which, incidentally, turns out to be the Mercedes SL. In Auto Motor und Sport’s reliability league it comes 37th. The top five are the Toyota Carina, Toyota Starlet, Nissan Almera, Suzuki Vitara, and Toyota Corolla. So let’s compare that little lot with what the Germans can muster.

Mercedes’ new best seller, the C-class, comes in 49th, the Porsche 911 is 63rd, and VW Golf 95th. BMW’s 7 series is down at 114 and the Audi A6 is 133rd. Even if you think that German cars do higher mileages than Japanese ones (the survey includes cars up to three years old) those results leave the German car industry with nowhere to hide.

“We’re still fascinated by the rigour with which they follow through agreed processes,” says BMW quality expert Fritz Hartig of his Far East competitors in general, and Lexus in particular. He readily admits that BMW has yet to produce unarguable quality or reliability. Among the biggest current headaches are those complex multimedia technologies which still drive some customers to despair.

It hasn’t stopped BMW from improving its quality image, though. More than 80 percent of the German magazine’s readers now think BMW builds reliable cars, as opposed to last year’s 70 percent.

Among the German manufacturers only Mercedes fares better (90 percent), while Audi’s and VW’s reputations have suffered badly over the last two years.

A little perspective, perhaps, may help; all those prestige makes are still thought far more trustworthy than a typical Ford or Opel. Only 30 percent (Ford) and 25 percent (Opel) say these brands produce reliable cars.

Lexus and Benz make great cars both, but it is a lot easier to go on the net and find Benz problems than Lexus

 

LMAO!!! I find (this is weird) that Japanes cars are looking more German and German cars looking more Japanese.

Except Bangle and his stuff

 

The S-Class hands down looks far better than any LS. From the headlight design all the way to the rear end and the overall styling of the car is just ugly, not to mention boring aswell.

I saw five LS430's on the road today in less than two minutes, and I couldn't help thinking it looked like a Geriatric-Mobile. All five of them had drivers over 70 who could not see over the steering wheel. The LS430 does not look the least bit aggressive.

 

accord, im not trying to argue, but you always say the same thing man.....plus the ls isnt supposed to be "aggersive", it is more luxurious

 

I know, but even the Maybach looks aggressive, even though it's not supposed to be used for aggressive driving.

 

For the guy who said that a Lexus is a poor man's Benz is completely wrong.


It's more like a Lexus is a smart mans benz, minus the reliability factor of a Benz and the attitude of the driver... (well, not you, but most of them). You see, the C230 Coupe starts at 26k. The cheapest and ugliest MB made today. The cheapest Lexus made today is the IS300, which has looks to kill. The look and feel of it is so nice and sport, a hell of a lot more sporty than the C230 Hatchback.

Then theres the C-class, which comepets with Lexus's ES300. Which, by the way, is the number one selling luxury automobile to this day of 2001 (or is it 2000)??? Never saw that happen on the C. Then, there is the E430, that competes with the GS430. You saw my pics earlier. Prices are pretty much the same... a little more for the E, but then again, that extra money your paying for the E is money for the maintence that you'll need tomorrow. GS430 looks sexy, its faster than the E, and not as boring. I mean, the dash in the E is pretty much the same from the 91 300e. No NAV, nada... just plain old boring.

Then theres the LS430, that is priced reasonably and has more comfort to it than the S430 and S500 and S600. Yes, the S600 is more of an aggressive car. So it looks more agressive. But the S430 and S500 were not made for that. Neither was the LS. So when you say that the LS is not agressive looking, than its a good thing and it has acomplished a true Luxury flagship car.

The SL500 and the SC430... well... Despite the 40k price difference, the SL looks better, but that's it. The only reason it would win in a comparo is because of it's looks. and to tell you the truth, it's not 40,000 dollar bills better looking.


And yes... when people buy a mercedes benz, they want perfection. Only thing that they do not know is that instead of perfection, you get malfunction.

 

Nothing beats the individually electronically reclining rear seats of the S600. The standard bench seat in the LS430 is NOT more comfortable than the individually reclining seats in the S600. I admit, the standard bench seat in the LS430 is more comfortable than the standard bench seat on the S-Class, but that is not the case for the reclining rear seats. The front seats of the S-Class are unbeleivable, the front seats of the LS430 remind me of something out of an Astrovan (No, that is not a good thing).

When somebody buys a Mercedes-Benz, they want perfection, and all I have received was nothing short of perfection in the 10+ Mercedes-Benz vehicles we've owned. Not only are the vehicles perfect, but the dealership experience is amazing; whenever I visit my dealership, I am treated like the Pope.

 

doesn't the TRUE pope roll in an escalade on dubs?

lol

btw.. our family went on a benz spree and its there.. benz may have less of a reliabilty then lexus.. but then agian how many days of a year is your car in the shop? for us it amounts to less then a week.. maybe we're lucky.. maybe we're not.. but think the reliability of the benz's is awesome..

also i think the sl500 just 0wnz the sc430, to me the sc430 looks okish but not like.. WOW check out that, its just another car. how many sl's are there tho? not very many

the ls430 is an old mans car, the s class is for the old man who wants everything he can try to get. LS430 is a car that one will find in the road.. all around him, the s class though, has that exclusive factor. not all the s's tho, just the 55 and 600.. those things have a intense attraction that pulls me toward them, when i see a benz i have that urge, its like, hey check it out a benz

lexus doesn't have that reputation, doens't have a history behind it. You pay for a benz, you pay for prestige, you pay for the history.

for lexus, you pay for the sound system and the car of course..

if lexus was a completely seperate division and tried to part it self from toyota then it might have that "real luxary car" image, but seeing toyota on the side of my window doesn't really help.

Lexus's are ok, benz's are more pleasing to me.

 

I agree, if Lexus separated themselves from Toyota, they would have a lot more respect by a lot more people.

I would have a lot more respect for Lexus if they had a "performance" division along the lines of AMG and M. TRD doesn't count .

By the way, the "true" Pope drives a Mercedes-Benz, not an Escalade .

 

he should get some dubs.. lol

 

bling bling.. i mean no disrespect to anyone.. this is just humour!

 

when it comes to comparing lexus and mercedes benz it truly is an unfair comparison.
first off, lexus doesn't even come close to offering the amount of models mercedes benz offers.
second, they don't even offer anywhere near the options that mercedes offers.
so think about it....the comparison isn't even balanced to begin with.
oh...one last thought.....does anyone know the amount of high strength steel lexus use in their vehicles.....if any?????? just for comparison sake...the new E has 47 percent.

 

Lexus uses much cheaper materials made by sweat shop workers, that's how they can afford to offer their vehicles at very cheap prices.

Ever heard the saying, "Made in Japan?"

.

 

no one liked the bling bling mobile?
lol

i thought it was made in china.. then shipped to japan and stamped that and then shipped here j/k

 

Well, I've got several new thoughts on this debate. First of all, I went to test drive an E500 today (after putting down a deposit for the '04 E55 ... *drool*) and I was positively floored. This car is for me, red-blooded and in the my late twenties, and not for my parents, so I used my own criteria.

Test driving the S-class, LS430, and the 745i wasn't nearly this exciting. The Airmatic DC let me choose between a comfortable-ride, and one where the handling was superior to the 745i's. The panorama glass-roof was just incredible, and the whole car felt bank-vault solid yet handled very nimbly. All in all, I was very, very impressed. And IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, I think it's a better car than any of the S500, LS, or the 745i. But that's in MY OPINION, so please, no flames. I'm now seriously considering just getting an E500 instead of waiting for the E55, but we'll see. After the test, I told my buddies "I haven't fallen in love with a car like that since the W210 E-class."

As for the car for my parents -- after much debate, we've settled on the LS430. The 745i was out pretty early on -- too sporty, not as comfortable as the other two. As for the other two cars, the LS430 was more comfortable than the S500, at least from the driver's seat. Our parents don't have a chauffeur, so it'll be rare for them to sit in the back. I think they'll enjoy the isolation the Lexus offers (my dad's been a big fan of Lincoln Town Cars, Cadillacs, etc, but my mom refuses to let him get another one of those, period). Finally, the most important reason: the price. I don't know if the LS' backseat is as comfortable as an S600's, but a nicely equipped S600 is DOUBLE the price of a nicely equipped LS430. A nicely equipped S500 is almost 1.5 times the price of a nicely equipped LS430. It's almost like comparing a Honda Accord to an E500 -- is the E-class a better car? Damned straight it is. Is it about double the price? You betcha. I personally would have loved to have gotten the 'rents a sweet S600, but at this point in my life, I can't afford one. And I truly don't want to get them a used S500 -- doesn't seem right to get them a used car as a present. A new LS430, in the end, is a nice substitute, one that I'm pretty happy with. I think the law of diminishing returns applies here as well -- I don't think the S600 has "twice the goodness" of an LS430. So that's our decision in the end.

 

Accord:

The S may look more "aggressive" and "sporty", but the LS430 will smoke the S430 and S500 with an extra $25,000 in change chillin' the glove box . Ain't that a biitch! Your S500 which you paid extra money for just to look rich and sophisticated just got smoked by a "Geriatric-mobile". Hmmm...

You think your reclining back seats are sooooo damn special, but once again I'll have you know that Lexus put those into the LS430 before Mercedes did the S-class. Hmmm...

Got any data to support that claim, bright light? Let's see, Lexuses is assembled in Japan, one of the most developed nations in the world, and Canada, the second most desireable place to live in the world. So I'm having kinduva hard time picturing this "sweatshop" you keep talking about???

So you are so convinced of German quality and German superiority, but did you know that most BMWs are built in Thailand and South Africa? Two underdeveloped nations that still practice slavery in some parts? Good ole BMW!... As long as that checkered logo is stamped on the hood, you drones will continue to eat it all up

 

Mabye someone like you wouldn't realize this, but some people have no problem justifying an extra $25k. Also, mabye it didn't occur to you that somebody who is buying an S430 or S500 is surely not concerned about speed. I am getting rid of my S500 in November and replacing it with a C32 AMG. Why? Becuase the C32 AMG is a much more fun car than the S500. Although, we are also replacing our S600 with a 2003 S600 which will pack a 550hp Twin Turbo V12 engine. So honestly, I don't care if an LS430 is faster than my S500 .

If you have ever been in an LS430, you will note that the materials are extremely cheap. The leather feels like it is made out of plastic and just generally everything feels very cheap. When you sit in an S600, you get a very high sense of the utmost luxury with the suede roof, leather dash board, etc.

Stop bringing up your claim about how I spent extra money on an S-Class when I could have gotten an LS430, because you know what? I have no problem walking into a dealership and paying cash for a $100k+ Mercedes-Benz. I won't lose sleep over it like you would, and obviously the cost of the car is a huge factor for you.

Also, I dislike BMW more than I dislike Lexus, the only Germany companies that I like are Porsche and Mercedes-Benz.