castroadan

Hello,
I took my calipers off to get them powder coated. The fluid completed drained out.

I put the calipers back on, fill with DOT4 brake fluid.

I tried bleeding the brakes with the car off, on and still can't get my brakes working.

The brake pedal is still so soft.


What am I doing wrong?

Quadcammer

are you using a power bleeder? Did the reservoir run dry when you had the calipers off?

castroadan

No not using a power bleeder just using the two person method. And yes the reservoir went completely dry.

Critter

Remove the master cylinder from the car and bled it first then put back on the car filled with fluid.
Continue to bleed system farthest wheel first, maintaining fluid in the master.

castroadan

Any tips on removing the master cylinder???

Critter

You can also bled with the cyl still in the car but you must remove the brake lines at the master and then with fittings usually plastic and hoses you redirect the brake fluid back into the reservoir. By slowly pumping (full stroke) the pedal the air bubbles will be removed from the master( best done on a work bench where you can apply minimal force to bleed, the pedal will take some finesse, and be careful to not get fluid on your car) and be returned to the top of the fluid level. There are procedures for this and if you go to a parts store possibly they will have the kit you need to do this which will show you how to configure the lines to remove the air. Once the master is bled then you reconnect the brake lines and continue to bleed the system always making sure the level is maintained in the master so you do not get into the same issue.
A power bleeder may also be your best bet but finding a mech that will come to your home would be a challenge but may be your best option.
Good Luck

castroadan

So my best bet is to remove the master cylinder?

MJ50

use bleeder...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mv...4mUaAnKo8P8HAQ

lganski

Go to Harbor Freight. They have a vacuum bleeder tool there for under $30. That is what I used when I rebuilt my front calipers.

ruflife1

This may help. Used it on a few cars in the past when I had to drain the complete system. Get clear pvc hose. Sizing is so that it just fits over the bleeders at each caliper. need about 2' at each bleeder. Place the other end of the hoses into a clean 16 oz water bottle. ( drill a hole in the cap so the hose will just fit ). Make sure the hose goes to the bottom of the bottle. Place about an inch of clean brake fluid in each bottle. Hook them all up and open all the bleeders at once, fill the master cylinder and let gravity do some work. It takes time but every 15 minutes or so, put more fluid in the master cylinder to top it up. You'll know the system is close when the air bubbles quit in the bottles. Close everything up then you can bleed as normal. With all that air in the lines, it is almost impossible to bleed the system normally from empty. You have to get most of the fluid in all the lines so you can bleed down the system. On my 4 and 6 pot Porsches, this can take me all morning but I have never found a fast way to bleed down the system. I have 2 power bleeders ( one that forces pressure from the master cylinder down and one that sucks the fluid from the bleeders ) but neither of them works better than the clear tube/water bottle/gravity method. I usually am bleeding alone so after the bubbles stop, leave the tubes from the bleeders attached, filled with fluid , in the water bottles. Get a wooden dowel, 2x4, whatever about 2' long. Place one end on the brake pedal, the other on the edge of the driver seat. Crack one bleeder, go into the car and using the power seat, move the seat forward forcing the 2x4 or whatever to push down on the brake pedal. Tighten the bleeder, move the seat back and repeat. It takes more time than the 2 person method but will keep your marriage intact. Hope this helps.

CafeRacer87

^ +1

I've done this on many occasions after replacing brake calipers, many people refer to this as "gravity bleeding". It is a good way to get MOST of the air out of the system, and then you can "2-man bleed" the system after if need be.

castroadan

thanks so much for the help guys, I am looking forward to trying this out. and by the way here are the pics of the calipers

castroadan

steveb9771

Could this problem have been avoided by immediately placing caps on each of the brake lines as each caliper was removed from the vehicle to prevent the fluid from draining from the master cylinder and the brake lines?

Critter

Yes of course, gravity was working against you when you removed the caliper.

ruflife1

Yes, I have used little engine vacuum caps to keep the fluid in the system. Just don't touch the brake pedal at all while the caliper is off. Reason I drain the complete system is it always seems to be a good time to fully replace the brake fluid with new. When I am just changing fluid without draining the system, I use ate that comes in different colors so you know when the system has been fully flushed by the color change coming out of the bleeder. The mixing of the 2 fluids in the reservoir is where the fun PITA occurs. Mind you, I only really do it on my track cars. Fluid is cheap insurance for no brake pedal at 160 mph trying to slow and turn, which I have had happen.

Nickthegreek

taking the master cylinder off is a bad idea and will introduce all new problems. Get a power bleeder, pressurize the system, open each bleeder screw until all you see is fluid with no bubbles and maintain fluid in the system. Sounds like you let it run dry and reintroduced air into the system. You should never have to remove your master cylinder. You can end up with more problems than you started with

This is the procedure. This is on a older mercedes but it also applies to the S550

Critter

Realizing that there is air in the master I was just trying to assist, as when you replace a master , you bench bleed it first then attach the lines and proceed to bleed the system. This is easier than trying to bleed the master attached to the car. Sure a power bleeder is easy but obviously the op did not have one or he would have not been using the two guy method.
Rule one guys do not let the master run dry when messing with your brakes, auto mechanics 101.

Nickthegreek

He'd be better off just opening each bleeder screw then pumping fluid... this time FILLING the reservoir. Bench bleeding is very messy and the last thing you want is to get that on the paint of a 100k car thats gonna spell trouble!!!!

Critter

Sorry Nick, air will not come out of a master with just opening bleeder screws. Maybe that why your pedal is spongy.

Nickthegreek

He will have no clue and ruin his master cylinder and have more than just a spongy pedal. Notice it says DO NOT TILT master cylinder. And when reinstalling it says to bleed the system. Here is the sequence from WIS

1 Set bleeding pressure on filling and bleeding unit to 2 bar.
2 Remove caps (10) for bleed screws (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) on brake calipers.
3 Fit bleed wrench (03) and bleed hose (02) on bleed screw (1).
4 Open bleed screw (1).
5.1 Bleed the hydraulic system of the brake system (after the hydraulic system was opened for repair):

Fully depress brake pedal repeatedly, until new bubble-free brake fluid flows out at the bleed screw (1).

To bleed the brake system correctly it is absolutely essential to pump the brake pedal throughout the entire bleeding process. Otherwise brake system malfunctions and a failure of the brake system can occur due to remaining residual air.

In order to avoid the intake of air, do not pump the brake pedal in a jerking manner, but gradually release.

The bleed screw (1) can remain open during the entire pumping process.

Required total quantity of brake fluid: approx. 1.5 l.









5.2 Replace brake fluid (service 4, hydraulic system of brake system was not previously opened for repair):

Keep bleed screw (1) open until new brake fluid flows out.

Pumping the brake pedal not required.

Required total quantity of brake fluid: approx. 0.75 l.

6 Close bleed screw (1).
7 Repeat process at bleed screws (2, 3, 4, 5, 6).

The numbering of the bleed screws (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) indicates the opening sequence.

For 6, or 8-piston brake calipers on the front axle and for vehicles with code (Z07) Maximum protection: Note different sequence for left and right-hand drive vehicles.

8 Detach bleed hose (02) and bleed wrench (03) and fit caps (10) to bleed screws (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6).

Nickthegreek

he needs to repeat the process by fully pressing the pedal. There is no need to bench bleed on these cars

castroadan

I am using your method let's see how it goes. I've got 4 water bottles attached with the clear tube I bought at lowes. They are attached to the bleeder valve

kiwigirl

How do I bleed the master cylinder on the bench please?