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I did the Rear SAM update, what problem should I be experiencing now?
as zainie786 wrote yesterday one question (on topic) is I’ve noticed that the music no longer muted for a navigation instruction? Anyone know why and how to fix?
Thanks for the info guys, not too bothered about the nav mute so not gonna pursue further.
thanks for all the help.
im not sure if the forum will allow me to post how I got my star setup for Ł20 as it involves some software which is pirated. But if anyone wants to set it up, pm me and I’ll help.
Mark- I think it’s a christening, I’m officially a s class owner now that I’ve f***** something up.
but all’s well that ends well, happily, and I’m enjoying the new nav look, and the new lighting I managed to finish today. Thanks again.
as zainie786 wrote yesterday one question (on topic) is I’ve noticed that the music no longer muted for a navigation instruction? Anyone know why and how to fix?
Have you noticed any problems with the 221902**** updates? I know... who keeps track of THAT? Put another way, what SDflash database have you used?
I don't have the "muting" issue either (but have only done a 221902 update on the A/C and no other modules). The SDflash 2008-10 doesn't have any 221902 updates, but later versions have more and more 902's as the databases get newer. Hence, why I started this post, before I continued any further updates:
Has EasyPhil definitively confirmed he's running R SAM facelift software 221 902 4903 (09.43) ?
I thought I posted a link to a UK forum where a chap in 2013 had the same fault software updates with nav mute dead. So either it deleted after timing out coz I forgot to post and it was deleted due to the link ? A regular forum member (at the time) responded a few times saying Merc did know they messed it up !!!!
Diesel Benz
On an NTG3 with fresh SW the radio (music) volume is reduced but only if you are playing at a reasonably high volume. Try it using the repeat button.
which is what I now have the rubbish I describe above in post 73 - Type 3
a later post by
Diesel Benz then said
Facelift is different, I'm 99.999% sure that the pre-facelift does not have any setting similar to what has been shown for the facelift.
I'm not aware of any means to read the SW version without diagnosis tools. You can read the maps release by inserting a maps update DVD but that does not help here.
If I remember right, there was even a technical bulletin about the audio mute issue, the very early SW had this feature but the first update that brought bird's eye view for navigation and the option to have ETA permanently shown instead of geo-coordinates deleted this feature. Then a later SW update brought it back but a bit differently. I believe the first release muted (tuned down audio, did not mute it completely) at all volume levels while it now mutes only at high levels.
If of any interest, I could try to find that bulletin.
but yes they had issues and struggled to fix it.... which is exactly the point, they NEVER understood what they broke coz they were looking in the wrong place and struggled to resolve so just bodged in an extra full vol cut back that wouldn't interfere with cars that still had the correct type 2 working..
pretty sure its the R SAM as Zanie 768 just discovered.... and Mark as you haven't been that stupid yet, don't put it on
Has EasyPhil definitively confirmed he's running R SAM facelift software 221 902 4903 (09.43) ?
I thought I posted a link to a UK forum where a chap in 2013 had the same fault software updates with nav mute dead. So either it deleted after timing out coz I forgot to post and it was deleted due to the link ? A regular forum member (at the time) responded a few times saying Merc did know they messed it up !!!!
which is what I now have the rubbish I describe above in post 73 - Type 3
a later post by
Yes, my rear SAM currently is running firmware 221 902 4903.
Damn Guys, I thought we were getting some good data on "To update or Not to update?".
Zainie and BOTUS say the Rear SAM (that's the computer in the trunk/boot that does a bunch of "stuff") software version 2219024903 kills the muting but EasyPhil says, "No." How can both things be true? Well, maybe it's UK vs USA models? Or, maybe it's the Telematics version. After my Telematics update, I'd say mine goes to mute but only at higher music volumes (I have no idea what it did before as I never noticed it...). I used Telematics 0665 and, Zainie used 0065 (even after I questioned if he was using the correct CD)... BOTUS, which Telematics do you have, 0065 or 0665?
To further explore this mostly academic exercise, I checked which Rear SAM's (SAM-H) are available (to me at least). 4903 is the newest, at a date of Apl-2013. There are various CFF's in the 221442 and 221902 versions; ranging for Oct-2007 (2214422400) to Apl-2013 (2219024903). I didn't check which version I have loaded but I know it's no newer than Mar-2008; I'm guessing it might be the original 2214421300 BOTUS mentioned. I do however have the 2214422600 in SDflash, which is dated Dec-2007, and BOTUS thinks is correct (Best???)...
In BOTUS's ever complimentary words, I "haven't been that stupid, YET" to use the latest update for the SAM's. My inclination is to leave it alone but, I suppose I should at least check to see which SW I have...
Still planning to do the seats because the driver's side dynamic (mostly a gimmick-- as is the music muting-- but cool, none-the-less) resets to "0" most of the time. (Driver's side is on the left for those of you who drive on the wrong side. Nothing personal, I had a RHD Daimler with the RR V-8 and, my neighbor owned a Morris Minor-- shocks the hell out of Texans when approaching head-on and they see a German Shepherd "behind the wheel" in the passenger's seat.)...
What comand software is Easy Phil using and is he really aware what we mean about the broken vol nav mute?
What Diesel Benz was saying in 2013
A user adjustable SDVC on early cars - (see my post 73) Type 1 (mine never had that since I owned the car)
Allegedly overwritten with a later update - where he thought this was Bird's eye update (but it certainly isn't bird's eye - mine was done in 2014 and left me with (see my post 73) Type 2 working perfectly
that worked very well for 3 years, the amp died and was swapped for a facelift amp on 2010 software and the SDVC and Nav Mute worked exactly the same for 2 more years !!!
Broken with another update
A bodge to try and fix (see my post 73) Type 3
Trying to fix we even wrecked the later tuner's better colour scheme and the Nav mute still didn't come back when flashed with the old rubbish - but you go backwards with one less colour on the menus which looks cheap and nasty !!!!
Mine went wrong AFTER SAMs and OCP updated
the SAMs are toy / spec dependent... but we all seem to have the same in our cars - stupidly the parts sticker is hidden behind the aluminum frame work (what you see with the boot trim out is the SBR-H sticker)
Original R SAM
Current part
as I mentioned, the R SAM is involved in SDVC as it takes ambient noise from the OCP and ABS speed data and feeds it back in to the telematics. Where facelift cars use this data to control the volume tweaks and overlay mute. Allegedly user controlled via comand menus that the NTG3.0 doesn't have
Note sure which CD was used it was done in AUG 2014 by main dealer
comand paperwork
FW number (boot sw) 2214424360
FW number 0014427060
HW 06.14
SW 08.03 .
SMALL TUNER IN THE BOOT
mute works with either of these as its NOT the cause of the sound problem
Crap tuner SW 2219027901 09.42
Good tuner SW 2219024402 10.02 NTG3.5 firmware
it does EVERYTHING exactly the same as the original... but there's a minor tweak to the colour scheme allowing 3 menu flavours for the screen you are operating in. The third of the screen you are on, the third you were on, the third you were never in. Its subtle BUT vastly better - take photos of old setup beforehand or you will be confused about what changes. But when you go back its like you're in a some crappy prototype that's part finished
Engine and gearbox - a good Idea BUT probably NOT for the home user???
Doors modules - fixes window stuck issues
Telematics - Nav Bird's eye, USA traffic, and loads of bug fixes
Clock fix - must have, allows the car to understand satellite time and date info post April 2019 WNRO event (AKA satellite's 19 year cycle with year roll over to Zero)
Small Tuner to NTG 3.5 firmware - brilliant, but unsure how you could do it but its nicer with identical functionality (no experience the the bigger amp)
Central gateway - seems to improve diagnostics capability
But if an Early car, you have to do the RFK (rear camera) or it worked back to from (on going forward, off going back)
Central Display - improves the colures and made my autel diagnostics scan the car 400% faster ODD but true, must throw noise in the can bus somehow (this was the last update its had)
TPMS -I suspect it will flatten the sensor batteries quicker, seems to poll the pressure data faster - safer but maybe more battery life?)
Front and rear parking sensor radars - car didn't like it, took five attempts before it took - and no change in functionality
COU Comand knob and buttons - no change
Multi contour seat backrest - didn't notice a change
Not tried
Headlamps
Night Vision - might teed calibration post update, might be a good idea allowing other later stuff to work. Its the oldest software on the car by more than a year over anything else
Seat adjustment
Bad idea
R SAM - breaks Nav mute
OCP - Not sure but between the SAM and this its all nasty now
UCP - front AC/heater buttons - seems to make the heater more erratic on air flow and temps
Speedo cluster - on early cars, it messes up the daytime brightness (jams to full on) to pretend to fix cold temp purple screen (makes no difference to that), doesn't bring KPH / MPH user menu to main speedo
ABR - one of these ruins the perfect braking it had when using active cruise and doesn't help drive better in traffic, might even bring back knocking brake pedal footwell noise as it dithers about (removal of this "bug" was one of the first software releases way back when)
DST - increases sensitivity and drops out in heavy rain - when it was never problematic
When given the time, I'll run programming through DAS, take some pic's and post what my "virgin" 221 has-- w/o changing, for now. Presently, I have no complaints other than dynamic left seat but that gimmick is probably a leak and new programming won't help... Or not, works sometimes but not most of the time???
Finally, why not engine and tranny? I'm using hard-wired DAS so, user error should be unlikely. However, as said, I have no complaints, so why F with it and risk unintended consequences. It may be interesting to see what's there and what's available ...
I never had issues with anything apart Command which I never update by remote
I have a W221 every week and some are fully updated by MB, no issues (no Idea about command as I don't do it)
I use the real latest database, I use latest Xentry and online SCN correction when needed
I can reverse mostly all firmware
bottom line is, for those who like to play around at home, it's on your own risk, it's risky do flashing if you are not pro
professional, someone who does this for living, knows what he is doing and can not **** up customers cars
at least he is not supposed to. I never had any complaint never never. That is why I am talking about reverse. If you just try out things but don't know how to reverse, then it starts to be a lottery
better listen to BOTUS if this is your case
Post 84 with greater clarity - re what Diesel Benz was trying to say in 2013 regarding Comand bugs, volume issues and software updates .
a) Original build - user adjustable SDVC on early cars - giving SDVC and Overlay Muting Type 1 - mine never had that since I owned the car and it isn't in the owners manual !
b) Early comand bug fix update - breaks vol controls
c) A vol bodge - to fix bad firmware bug, rushed out introducing the nasty SDVC and Overlay Muting Type 3
d) Another update - written by an engineer who new what was going on, re introduced the correct and original SDVC and Overlay Muting Type 2
e) Bird's eye update retained the SDVC and Overlay Muting Type 2
I suspect that timeline is what Mercedes think happened. But what I suspect went on was....
The cars never had a) which is why it's not in the manual, it was a development idea, but the better type 2 went on the final build.
Hence how b) broke it, as they'd left this prototype drivel in their technical documentation and made mistakes when it rolled out with bug fixes for plenty of other gremlins
c) was a bodge to bring Type 3 as they were in a compete muddle, its in all cars now and works but mostly hidden by Type 2 when working
d) was an expert sorting the mess the 3 year olds brought to the party with the disaster that was b)
e) Type 2 and Type 3 remain in all future builds .
The trouble is Mercedes are still unaware Type 2 gets disabled with a R SAM update, leaving people stuck with only Type 3 which is nasty and doesn't work unless u have the Vol wound to death.
Type 2 worked in my car before bird's eye and after bird's eye, and with wrong tuner or one on original firmware. It was by far the best bit of the car. .
The three SDVC and Source mute overlay types
Type 1: User instigated adjustment of the source mute differential for voice overlay. A feature on a w211 of similar vintage with Comand NTG1. But on a W221 the user Menus to adjust are NOT part of the car. Nor are they documented or described in the User owners manual. But it is referred to in the official workshop documentation, that wrongly states this user choice is on the Comand unit (it is NOT). However remnants of this feature can be found by the user and the effect detected in diagnostics but with NO change in volume level. See post 73 to track down remnants of this old idea.
Type 2: Automatic very well judged SDVC and source mute for voice overlay at ANY volume level with no user adjustment. My car had this and it worked exceptionally well for 4 years. I believe regardless of road speed or ambient noise inside the car the level of Mute was almost perfectly judged.
Type 3: Very high Vol setting, source die back for voice overlay (I believe always worked before or after any software updates). But as Type 2 should work you never knew the car had this feature. It seems to come in to play over 80% vol and mutes the source by about 40%. Where if Type 2 wasn't broken it would die back nicely to about 20%. Thus Type 3 can still leave the source at 60% Vol when a TMC or Nav overlay cuts in, which is insufficient to be effective, but is a noticeable change.
Just want to chime in here to mention that with the Rear SAM update my muting over music be it Radio, MP3 or AUX works fine at all volume levels. YMMV.
I think that's possible if someone codes to on the feature disabled in the R SAM (that's usually switched for car's that were supposed to use that software with this highlighted option)
BOTUS, I'm assuming your pic is NOT for a NTG 3.0? Mine looks like this:
No "Audio fadeout" or other stuff.
I checked the "engineering menu" and nothing like that in there either??? At some point, I'll run DAS and see what SW I have in the SAM's, etc. Also, we're using USA NAVI DVD's; last update 2016. Euro's are newer but hard to imagine that would have an effect on COMAND programming or the audio fadeout... So, Zainie seems to confirm your theory (2219024903 isn't made for NTG 3.0) but, EasyPhil seems to disprove it... Who knows but, it is still interesting...
that's the point... cars meant to run the R SAM update (I think doesn't work on earlier cars) have the user menu I posted NTG3.5 which had "Audio Fade" under the navigation choices
As I have mentioned previously looking deep into the code within Comand and the Amp we can't find anything that might enable it.
NTG3.0 cars work when they have their software, and break when they get NTG3.5 firmware (on the Rear SAM) when you track back through technical docs you find the R SAM processes noise signals for the telematics and as I've replaced everything else and its still broken. Doesn't take much to join the dots. Hence trying to swap back to better software with an original R SAM setup..... but in 18 months of idiot garages still not managed it. I have NO intention of ever owning a Merc again so no interest in wasting Ł900 for a set up to let me do it properly.... but sadly with the experts so incompetent and with ears that don't function, I might have to just to prove I'm right
I'll add this: 2219024903 is dated 03 April 2013... about seven years after the first 221's were sold. There are several updates through the years, with 902's starting in 2009. (I'm assuming all CFF's in the SAM-H, rear SAM, are updates...) So, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, the 902's correspond with the NTG 3.5 change from 3.0 and, it makes sense the 902's may not be "best" for the NTG 3.0 "stuff", including COMAND. BUT... why doesn't EasyPhil have the "bug"?
Extrapolating, maybe it may best to stay away from 902 updates for control modules that depend on NTG 3.0. Leading to my next question: Which ECM's are "tied to" COMAND NTG 3.0?
Just a WAG (wild *** guess) in answer to my own question but, one would assume, any control module that can be accessed from COMAND (which is a whole lot of stuff, e.g. A/C, seats, sound, rear screen, etc., etc.) are affected, or tied to, NTG 3.0... Thoughts???
bad stuff on my car .
SPEEDO 221 221 442 2361, 221 442 0321, 221 442 0221, 221 442 3271 4 elements worse - messes up the daytime brightness
ABR 221 902 9502 worse
R SAM 221 902 4903 worse
UCP 221 902 1102 worse
ACC 221 902 2402 worse
FL FR RL RR seats 216 902 1900 seems to have more issues
TUNER 221 902 7901 not worse its the same, but 221 902 4402 has a better colour scheme (except Merc throws teddies but the cars happy)
DAB 221 902 400 nothing wrong (except Merc throws teddies but the cars happy)
those last two prove Mercedes have no idea what they are doing, perfectly good software on later cars they forgot or worse still, never knew works OK (I had both those on the car for 3 years and it was good, then we did R SAM, UCP, ABR and ACC and it went downhill)
I can't say why the car is worse, might be old and worn out, but these changes were directly after the software updates..... and if I was a sick, nasty criminal. I would degrade features to make the later models feel and drive that much better so I sell more cars….
in hindsight do the doors, do the telematics and don't touch anything else ever.
here's an unexpected good thing.... the Distronic Plus mess post software updates is NOW GONE and mine is back to how it was originally. Perversely the fix is using non facelift Rear SAM software !!!!
as of today I have this hardware and this software in the back...
I have been trying to resolve the broken Sat Nav message source fade issue, that came about after software updates - and today swapped out the R SAM to what is later hardware and later software than the production release my car left the factory with. But its older than the software mess Mercedes SCN the car with if they touch it.
After putting the car back together I was still missing the Fade feature... but going for a drive I immediately noticed the Distronic Plus display in the Instrument cluster is BACK to how it used to look post software updates in March 2019 with a more realistic range and it looks further up the road. And I think the braking is back to how it was when I first had the car.... so a major win but not the one I was trying to get.
you don't want R SAM 221 902 4903 but its because is messes up the cruise control.... rather than known to be what breaks the Nav fade. Which of course means what did break the fade? that's still up for debate. Checking we did the Radars front / rear, DTR radar, Rear SAM and the COU in March 2019
I forget exactly when I realise the Fade was broken but I suspect trying to fix the Nav Fade we did the UCP, OCP (and the ABR for fun) in Sept 2019, and I can see we also checked and it came back saying Comand was all up to date in
So the timeline of the OCP (O for Overhead) doesn't seem to fit when the Fade bug appeared. I'll connect up an original (to my era) COU with its original software at some point (now the rear SAM software is of a similar era maybe it will play ball - already tried at the time but nothing changed). Something's caused it, but with timeline amiss not sure what the driver is. Did they mess up with the mess Merc got themselves in re volume control issues during comand updates between 2006 and 2008 ?
FYI my OCP 221 870 4186 is on SW 216 442 0323 from 06.26. Originally it had SW 216 442 0123 from 05.45
I guess it sheds some light re how EasyPhil has his Fade working when using the SAM software I say is rubbish... Oh and the heater seemed better too !
Originally Posted by BOTUS
Post DTR and ABR updates driving away from the garage I subsequently noticed these changes
Braking is totally ruined and now very dangerous. From perfection to total incompetence. It pretends to forget to brake 9 out of 10 times and thus when it does it just about gets the car to a scruffy incompetent stop. It will still scare you most of the time. 2 years in you still often think it’s not going to react and most times it behaves exactly like that. It pushes the envelope to the point where it may not be able to apply enough braking to stop the car safely in many situations. And now often completely forgets to do anything if approaching stopped vehicles,
Before the distance display in the cluster was a very long range and even in town it showed a big gap to a car in front. Now the cluster immediately shows a stupid graphic where its interpretation is always incorrect. When two yards away its shows you have almost hit the car in front with a 1 inch gap showing (Where the original setting shows what’s more like a 3 yard gap - and was never unrealistic as it is at all times on the graphic now).
.
I suppose we are both guessing at this point on the Rear SAM but, when I finally got to it, here's what I found on my Rear SAM (SAM-H):
2214421300, original, as BOTUS showed in post # 85. And, here's what it wants to update to:
2214423300, dated 6.6.2008. This FW/SW # is "available" because I used a 2012-11 database. The most recent is 2219024903, dated 03.04.2013. But, I also have 2214422600, dated 20.12.2007, as shown in post # 85 for a R-SAM module made 13.06.08. (In case you haven't noticed, the middle # is the month. And, for anyone actually using this thread for off-line programming, once you check for new programming, Xenrty will store the SW version in F:\ProgramData\Data\Xentry\Flashfiles\221\***. See post #28. If you don't want the "latest" SW, delete what's stored there before using another, older, version.)
So, I have the choice of Original or Extra Crispy and, several options in between... And, given the many choices in between, makes me think, as BOTUS said, MB was screwing around with prototypes and, maybe, gave up at 4903... Who knows???
Just guessing-- as usual-- but, I suppose I can get R-SAM to update to 2600. But, my HW is older than the one BOTUS is using and that he likes. At least, we have documented both HW #'s the SW they were born with...
But, here's where it gets weird. Before going to Control Unit Adaptions (change programming), I get this screen:
WTF, how does DAS know Rear Sam is not up-to-date? I haven't told it to look for new software yet. My only guess is, it was the Telematics Update, which, I think, came out 21.12.2010. And, what happens if I hit F3 (Yes)? It's just asking to do an initial start up. Anyone know the answer?
Finally, BOTUS, I think your last line in post # 97 is good advice.
Originally Posted by BOTUS
in hindsight do the doors, do the telematics and don't touch anything else ever.
.
The only bug, I can think of, is the dynamic seat resets to zero on driver's side... although, not always. At 14 years and 70K miles, it's probably a leak...
And, I'm not sure about voice-over mute. Seems to only be noticeable at higher volumes... I haven't used that feature in years so, can't recall what it used to do... Maybe, I'll try "initial start up" of R-SAM as DAS says rather than new programming.
you have the R SAM hardware and software my car originally had (until I put what is still the current replacement in yesterday....) it was running what you have, until updated Mar 2019 when SW 221 902 4903 was installed
interesting there was a software release in-between I never knew about (and this might be a good idea) - what is clear is each iteration sees the diagnosis identifier changing.... (which I don't know BUT I suspect is enhanced diagnostic capability - Which I'd expect as and when garages can't understand / resolve, Merc in its day (when still a current model) stepped in and added functionality so the same issues could be found / diagnosed / understood by more dealerships
so
SW 221 442 1300 diagnosis 0/3
SW 221 442 2600 diagnosis 0/5
SW 221 442 3300 diagnosis 0/? did I image I just read 0/7 ????
SW 221 902 4903 diagnosis 0/9 so maybe they think its OK and the diagnostic benefits worthwhile... but the early stuff works better
try unplugging and remaking all the connection to the seat module, its so easy 2 screws abd the trim fits back so easily....some say it helps.... I swapped mine to another part a20 min job. With the car asleep unlock and make sure if keyless well out of range then leave for 10 mins and the warning about death can be safely ignored
01-29-2021, 02:25 PM
