What brand is MB’s nemesis these days?
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Birmingham, AL
2019 S560, 2022 Audi S8
It's all about aerodynamics. Aerodynamics will be just as important for EVs as they are to maximize gas mileage for ICE powered cars. BTW, Tesla self driving cars are notorious for running into emergency vehicles because they only rely on cameras which is less accurate than the MB setup which uses a combination of cameras and LIDAR. Elon Musk is not an engineer and it shows in the poor technology and the poor build quality of Teslas.
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From: Birmingham, AL
2019 S560, 2022 Audi S8
Just like there weren't cell phone towers everywhere when the first cell phones came out, but I still think the EV cars are not going to work out for 50% of folks but for those that it does work out for, knock yourself out.
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From: Birmingham, AL
2019 S560, 2022 Audi S8
In fairness, if the grid goes down, and you're low on gas you still have a problem that can only be fixed by going far enough to reach a place that has power or waiting for the power to be restored. Your gasoline-powered buttocks are no less screwed if the remaining range is less than the distance to a working refill option.
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Key words are "if the grid goes down" which refers to the ding often applied to EVs that they can't be charged if the grid is down and yet it applies equally to gas cars: No grid, no gas. On the other hand, to my knowledge, "I don't want to buy an ICE car because you can't get gas when the grid is down" was said by no one, ever.
If you want to talk about charging in general; yeah, for many, it's a multifaceted problem that isn't going away soon.
If you want to talk about charging in general; yeah, for many, it's a multifaceted problem that isn't going away soon.
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From: Scottsdale AZ
2015 CLS 550 2015 ML 400 Previous 2020 GLB 250 2019 A 220 2005 ML 350 1989 300 E 2001 SL 500
What brand does MB fear the most, when it comes to losing customers? Is it BMW or has it evolved to Tesla or Genesis? I’m sure at one time at least, it must have been Lexus. Does it bother them more to lose out to another European brand or does it really fry them when a customer jumps to an Asian or American brand? What really pisses them off these days, if anything? Just curious?
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From: Corona Del Mar, CA
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
In fairness, if the grid goes down, and you're low on gas you still have a problem that can only be fixed by going far enough to reach a place that has power or waiting for the power to be restored. Your gasoline-powered buttocks are no less screwed if the remaining range is less than the distance to a working refill option.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Corona Del Mar, CA
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
MB should fear most its own ineptitude.
It fears BMW and Audi because they are home-market threats and have the same cultural (German) DNA, and can nip away at the lower fringe of the price tiers.
MB fears Japanese and Korean brands because, believe it or not, some consumers do care about reliability, an attribute which MB has nothing to offer.
MB fears Porsche and Bentley because MB can’t compete at the higher price tiers, although they have tried with Maybach.
MB fears any adjacent brand. Industry journalists write about MB’s glaring weaknesses. The weaknesses are no secret, except maybe to MB themselves and to unsuspecting/unsophisticated first-time MB buyers who fall victim.
Tesla is a nothing burger. VAG will squash any car company with sustained investment over the long term.
It fears BMW and Audi because they are home-market threats and have the same cultural (German) DNA, and can nip away at the lower fringe of the price tiers.
MB fears Japanese and Korean brands because, believe it or not, some consumers do care about reliability, an attribute which MB has nothing to offer.
MB fears Porsche and Bentley because MB can’t compete at the higher price tiers, although they have tried with Maybach.
MB fears any adjacent brand. Industry journalists write about MB’s glaring weaknesses. The weaknesses are no secret, except maybe to MB themselves and to unsuspecting/unsophisticated first-time MB buyers who fall victim.
Tesla is a nothing burger. VAG will squash any car company with sustained investment over the long term.
As someone who sells Mercedes, the only thing they are focused on right now is electric car sales. Mercedes doesn't "fear" any manufacturer, but they are concerned with expanding their electric car footprint. They know ICE cars will be in short supply, so they are raising prices. There is no longer a concern about what an ICE BMW or Lexus sells for. As they were back in the 70's and 80's Mercedes is concerned with the upper end of the market. Their lower level offerings are virtually extinct. Hell, CLA 250's are mid $40k right now.
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From: unbegrenzt
2017 GLE350 4MATIC
Maybe “fear” was the wrong term to use. If MB sees they are losing customers they must care more about losing them to one or two particular brands than to other brands, I would think. Why else would they sometimes come up with incentives that are aimed at drivers of one particular, competing brand rather than all brands?
Using carsalesbase data and given that the last full year of data is 2021, MB is losing to everyone. From 2020 to 2021 they lost share on an absolute basis. From 2016 to 2021 they lost share on a relative basis (they benefited less than others benefited; they did less good). Death by a thousand cuts is unfolding before MB's eyes. Time to rearrange the deck chairs.
The consistent theme is that MB is losing. It's a shame. VAG and BMW are ascending, and watch out for Genesis. MB is in decline.
2020-2021 US market share change in percentage points:
Mercedes -0.04
Acura +0.11
Lexus +0.14
Audi +0.02
Genesis +0.22
BMW +0.33
Land Rover +0.06
Porsche +0.08
Total non-Mercedes +0.96
2016-2021 US market share change in percentage points:
Mercedes +0.05
Acura +0.13
Lexus +0.13
Audi +0.11
Genesis +0.29
BMW +0.45
Land Rover +0.19
Porsche +0.16
Total non-Mercedes +1.46
Last edited by chassis; May 21, 2023 at 09:33 PM.
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From: Florida
2020 560S
What brand does MB fear the most, when it comes to losing customers? Is it BMW or has it evolved to Tesla or Genesis? I’m sure at one time at least, it must have been Lexus. Does it bother them more to lose out to another European brand or does it really fry them when a customer jumps to an Asian or American brand? What really pisses them off these days, if anything? Just curious?
I'm not impressed with screens in the back seat or all the wide screens in the front but, I'm 75. Once the EVs push out ICE that will be a clean piece of paper for me for a whole new decision tree. I can't tell you why I measure my car buying with the same criteria as always because the base functionality doesn't change. Yet like the movie theaters, cars have also evolved.
Thread Starter
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From: Corona Del Mar, CA
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
My guess is that MB truly HATES losing sales to any brand, but the one that keeps them up at night is T E S L A. I live in Newport Beach and the number of Teslas seen on our streets every day is truly staggering, They are EVERYWHERE, like an invading army of fire ants.
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This is War
As Loyalists most of us on this Forum would rather own a Mercedes-Benz over TESLA. But not the younger generation especially my Kids. Mercedes-Benz has called on its Formula 1 team to help it build more efficient EVs so that it can better keep up with Tesla going forward. If I was in charge after the dust settles in Ukraine, would make the EQG affordable and have a "base" model that stickers for $100K. Would even market a "base" EQG to the German and NATO military. Prefer the design of the Panther and Tiger Tanks of WWII. But the agricultural Sherman and T-34 Tanks won the War with its superior numbers on the battlefield.
Last edited by Drone_S213; May 22, 2023 at 11:17 AM.
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As a member of the 'younger generation', I admit to, once, being tempted by Tesla. But widespread build quality issues kept me off. Misaligned panels. Leaking rooftops. Terrible wind noise in the cabin. Creaky interiors. All of these are well-reported issues, frequently encountered by real owners, some of whom I personally know. So in the end I still went back to MB, following the footsteps of my father.
That said, if MB is going to keep on adding more and more creaky plastics into the cabin (seriously, the W223 S class has way more cheap plastics in the cabin than the current W213 E class) and refuse fixing the numerous QC issues they have with these cars, I might just jump ship. Dunno about Tesla, but Genesis is looking really tempting.
That said, if MB is going to keep on adding more and more creaky plastics into the cabin (seriously, the W223 S class has way more cheap plastics in the cabin than the current W213 E class) and refuse fixing the numerous QC issues they have with these cars, I might just jump ship. Dunno about Tesla, but Genesis is looking really tempting.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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1991 190E 2.3
"Care" is best answered by MB. Try emailing the question to them and report back with their answer.
Using carsalesbase data and given that the last full year of data is 2021, MB is losing to everyone. From 2020 to 2021 they lost share on an absolute basis. From 2016 to 2021 they lost share on a relative basis (they benefited less than others benefited; they did less good). Death by a thousand cuts is unfolding before MB's eyes. Time to rearrange the deck chairs.
The consistent theme is that MB is losing. It's a shame. VAG and BMW are ascending, and watch out for Genesis. MB is in decline.
2020-2021 US market share change in percentage points:
Mercedes -0.04
Acura +0.11
Lexus +0.14
Audi +0.02
Genesis +0.22
BMW +0.33
Land Rover +0.06
Porsche +0.08
Total non-Mercedes +0.96
2016-2021 US market share change in percentage points:
Mercedes +0.05
Acura +0.13
Lexus +0.13
Audi +0.11
Genesis +0.29
BMW +0.45
Land Rover +0.19
Porsche +0.16
Total non-Mercedes +1.46
Using carsalesbase data and given that the last full year of data is 2021, MB is losing to everyone. From 2020 to 2021 they lost share on an absolute basis. From 2016 to 2021 they lost share on a relative basis (they benefited less than others benefited; they did less good). Death by a thousand cuts is unfolding before MB's eyes. Time to rearrange the deck chairs.
The consistent theme is that MB is losing. It's a shame. VAG and BMW are ascending, and watch out for Genesis. MB is in decline.
2020-2021 US market share change in percentage points:
Mercedes -0.04
Acura +0.11
Lexus +0.14
Audi +0.02
Genesis +0.22
BMW +0.33
Land Rover +0.06
Porsche +0.08
Total non-Mercedes +0.96
2016-2021 US market share change in percentage points:
Mercedes +0.05
Acura +0.13
Lexus +0.13
Audi +0.11
Genesis +0.29
BMW +0.45
Land Rover +0.19
Porsche +0.16
Total non-Mercedes +1.46
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,995
Likes: 394
1991 190E 2.3
My guess is that MB truly HATES losing sales to any brand, but the one that keeps them up at night is T E S L A. I live in Newport Beach and the number of Teslas seen on our streets every day is truly staggering, They are EVERYWHERE, like an invading army of fire ants.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,995
Likes: 394
1991 190E 2.3
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,995
Likes: 394
1991 190E 2.3
Key words are "if the grid goes down" which refers to the ding often applied to EVs that they can't be charged if the grid is down and yet it applies equally to gas cars: No grid, no gas. On the other hand, to my knowledge, "I don't want to buy an ICE car because you can't get gas when the grid is down" was said by no one, ever.
If you want to talk about charging in general; yeah, for many, it's a multifaceted problem that isn't going away soon.
If you want to talk about charging in general; yeah, for many, it's a multifaceted problem that isn't going away soon.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,995
Likes: 394
1991 190E 2.3
A lot less than the continuing cost of seriously poisoning our planet that burning the planet killing fossil fuel is costing.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,564
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From: Scottsdale AZ
2015 CLS 550 2015 ML 400 Previous 2020 GLB 250 2019 A 220 2005 ML 350 1989 300 E 2001 SL 500
Maybe “fear” was the wrong term to use. If MB sees they are losing customers they must care more about losing them to one or two particular brands than to other brands, I would think. Why else would they sometimes come up with incentives that are aimed at drivers of one particular, competing brand rather than all brands?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,350
Likes: 493
From: Birmingham, AL
2019 S560, 2022 Audi S8
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,120
Likes: 4,351
From: Corona Del Mar, CA
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
As a member of the 'younger generation', I admit to, once, being tempted by Tesla. But widespread build quality issues kept me off. Misaligned panels. Leaking rooftops. Terrible wind noise in the cabin. Creaky interiors. All of these are well-reported issues, frequently encountered by real owners, some of whom I personally know. So in the end I still went back to MB, following the footsteps of my father.
That said, if MB is going to keep on adding more and more creaky plastics into the cabin (seriously, the W223 S class has way more cheap plastics in the cabin than the current W213 E class) and refuse fixing the numerous QC issues they have with these cars, I might just jump ship. Dunno about Tesla, but Genesis is looking really tempting.
That said, if MB is going to keep on adding more and more creaky plastics into the cabin (seriously, the W223 S class has way more cheap plastics in the cabin than the current W213 E class) and refuse fixing the numerous QC issues they have with these cars, I might just jump ship. Dunno about Tesla, but Genesis is looking really tempting.
Genesis really needs to kick their dealers in the *** and insist that they build brand new, stand alone facilities. Taking a $100K Genesis to a Hyundai dealership for service is not cool. Of course, they will pick your car up for servicing, but it’s just not the same. MB & Lexus dealer service departments here are just exquisite. Genesis needs to go that way.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,120
Likes: 4,351
From: Corona Del Mar, CA
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
