What brand is MB’s nemesis these days?
05-22-2023, 06:05 PM
#77
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2019 S560, 2022 Audi S8
I drove a Supercharged G90 when they first came out. I could not believe the outstanding ride quality, especially with 21” wheels. About two weeks ago on a Sunday, I visited one of the Genesis dealers here in Orange County. I just sort of strolled into the back area where the service department was and I was absolutely shocked. The place was dirty, beat up, run down and definitely in need of maintenance. It looked like something I might expect to see in a third world country. I imagined my nice, new G90 being “serviced” there and it was not a good image.
Genesis really needs to kick their dealers in the *** and insist that they build brand new, stand alone facilities. Taking a $100K Genesis to a Hyundai dealership for service is not cool. Of course, they will pick your car up for servicing, but it’s just not the same. MB & Lexus dealer service departments here are just exquisite. Genesis needs to go that way.
Genesis really needs to kick their dealers in the *** and insist that they build brand new, stand alone facilities. Taking a $100K Genesis to a Hyundai dealership for service is not cool. Of course, they will pick your car up for servicing, but it’s just not the same. MB & Lexus dealer service departments here are just exquisite. Genesis needs to go that way.
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chassis (05-22-2023)
05-22-2023, 07:40 PM
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The service bay "back of house" business is shared between VW, Audi and Porsche. In addition to this this, said "Porsche" dealer has a $1.5m Carrera GT and several high-dollar 964s sitting outside in a generally open storage/parking lot. I'm sure the lot had "normal" levels of car dealer security and insurance, but isn't the owner of a $1.5m "special" car supposed to be treated "specially"? Evidently not.
BTW the VW dealer has the same brand of granola bars as the Porsche dealer. The VW dealer even had coffee, too.
Dealers are clown carnivals across all brands.
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05-22-2023, 08:05 PM
#82
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What about taking your new 911, costing far more than $100k, to a "Porsche" dealer where the next lift in the service bay has a clapped-out 20 year old Ford Explorer on it? That's how it is at my local Porsche dealer.
The service bay "back of house" business is shared between VW, Audi and Porsche. In addition to this this, said "Porsche" dealer has a $1.5m Carrera GT and several high-dollar 964s sitting outside in a generally open storage/parking lot. I'm sure the lot had "normal" levels of car dealer security and insurance, but isn't the owner of a $1.5m "special" car supposed to be treated "specially"? Evidently not.
BTW the VW dealer has the same brand of granola bars as the Porsche dealer. The VW dealer even had coffee, too.
Dealers are clown carnivals across all brands.
The service bay "back of house" business is shared between VW, Audi and Porsche. In addition to this this, said "Porsche" dealer has a $1.5m Carrera GT and several high-dollar 964s sitting outside in a generally open storage/parking lot. I'm sure the lot had "normal" levels of car dealer security and insurance, but isn't the owner of a $1.5m "special" car supposed to be treated "specially"? Evidently not.
BTW the VW dealer has the same brand of granola bars as the Porsche dealer. The VW dealer even had coffee, too.
Dealers are clown carnivals across all brands.
Last edited by MBS63AMG; 05-22-2023 at 08:13 PM.
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chassis (05-22-2023)
05-22-2023, 09:07 PM
#83
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And? We are not living in a time when the automobile was first invented. I have no issue with an EV, but I don't particularly want to be a "pioneer". I would buy a Tesla now and drive it on trips, but not any other EV because they don't have the infastructure Tesla does...and I don't love Teslas...only one I would consider is a Model S and even then, I don't love the car. If I could charge it at Tesla superchargers I would get an i7 now. If the EQS looked like the S Class and I could charge it at Tesla Superchargers I would get one now...but I hate the styling of the EQS and then there is the charging issue.
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05-22-2023, 09:09 PM
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05-22-2023, 09:12 PM
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Graph appears to be accurate and matches reported quarterly sales numbers in multiple other sources. I welcome any corrections though, if the reported numbers in that source are incorrect. The numbers also scale well with the published annual sales numbers for both companies: Mbenz sold ~2MM vehicles, Tesla sold 1.3MM vehicles but their sales trends are increasing YoY and quarter to quarter.
As for the fact Model S and X accounting for only 3% of Tesla sales, why does it matter in this context? OP question is about Mbenz in general, as a corporate, (not specifically S-class vs Model S or Model X). Even if we focus on the luxury S-class line, S-class in 2022 also accounted for 4% of Mbenz sales too (For the US market). As @SW20S , the majority of Mbenz vehicles are in the same price range as Model Y and Model 3 (this includes the GLC which is the best Mbenz selling vehicle in the US (65K sold in 2022 in the US). The same applies to the C-class being the best selling Sedan for Mbenz in the US. People and the upcoming generation would rather get a Model 3 that is slightly cheaper than a C-class (not me, but most people apparantly prefer the Model 3 over C-class or BMW 3-series). The reason I highlighted Model S and X in my first comment is that I assume S-class owners would be mostly interested in the Model S and X line if they ever switch. I don’t know the number, but I would not be surprised if Tesla sold more Model S/X cars than the Mbenz S-class and GLS combined (haven’t researched it). Not a Tesla fan, but can’t deny Tesla’s potential (To OP’s point, Mbenz should fear from Tesla).
Tesla’s recent price cut, if anything, will help improving Tesla’s sales number even better. I actually commend Tesla for adjusting their prices.
As for the fact Model S and X accounting for only 3% of Tesla sales, why does it matter in this context? OP question is about Mbenz in general, as a corporate, (not specifically S-class vs Model S or Model X). Even if we focus on the luxury S-class line, S-class in 2022 also accounted for 4% of Mbenz sales too (For the US market). As @SW20S , the majority of Mbenz vehicles are in the same price range as Model Y and Model 3 (this includes the GLC which is the best Mbenz selling vehicle in the US (65K sold in 2022 in the US). The same applies to the C-class being the best selling Sedan for Mbenz in the US. People and the upcoming generation would rather get a Model 3 that is slightly cheaper than a C-class (not me, but most people apparantly prefer the Model 3 over C-class or BMW 3-series). The reason I highlighted Model S and X in my first comment is that I assume S-class owners would be mostly interested in the Model S and X line if they ever switch. I don’t know the number, but I would not be surprised if Tesla sold more Model S/X cars than the Mbenz S-class and GLS combined (haven’t researched it). Not a Tesla fan, but can’t deny Tesla’s potential (To OP’s point, Mbenz should fear from Tesla).
Tesla’s recent price cut, if anything, will help improving Tesla’s sales number even better. I actually commend Tesla for adjusting their prices.
The reason why the argument is flawed is because the price is not part of the equation. Back in the day when Tesla sold a lot of Model S/X at $100K+, they were clearly eating into the luxury market. Meanwhile what they call the premium market, German manufacturers have increased prices while Tesla has decreased prices by double digits. They are now not on the same price level anymore. In fact, with the majority of their sales (Model 3/Y), Tesla is now just hovering around/above the US average sales price of $47k or so. Not sure if that even fits into the premium segement
Meanwhile, last year 30% of all US Mercedes sales were Top-End Luxury vehicles (Mercedes-AMG, Mercedes-Maybach, G-Class, S-Class, GLS, EQS and EQS SUV). Virtually all of these are $100K+ cars. This is a theme that happens worldwide. Lower volume, higher margins. They are at their highest profitability right now if memory serves.
Btw. I am a great EV fan and have been eagerly waiting for the right car to come along. Still have a Tesla Cybertruck on order (for what I don't know what I thought it was cool) and recently cancelled the order for the Lucid Air because they are not coming to our state anytime soon. A Plaid is looking better with each price drop
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05-22-2023, 09:20 PM
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Lotta EVs on the horizon; waiting isn't necessarily a bad thing.
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05-22-2023, 11:42 PM
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Current/Last 5-years:S560, X7, X5, Accord; Sold:S550, BMW X7; X5;BMW 530e;20'Lincoln Navigator;LS460
..//..
Btw. I am a great EV fan and have been eagerly waiting for the right car to come along. Still have a Tesla Cybertruck on order (for what I don't know what I thought it was cool) and recently cancelled the order for the Lucid Air because they are not coming to our state anytime soon. A Plaid is looking better with each price drop
Btw. I am a great EV fan and have been eagerly waiting for the right car to come along. Still have a Tesla Cybertruck on order (for what I don't know what I thought it was cool) and recently cancelled the order for the Lucid Air because they are not coming to our state anytime soon. A Plaid is looking better with each price drop
05-23-2023, 12:40 PM
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05-23-2023, 12:43 PM
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Most people aren't engineers so they're buying the sales hype. After a few years of ownership where they experience the poor build quality and their allegedly driverless cars crashing into emergency vehicles, they'll change their tune. In the meantime, more manufacturers with better quality vehicles are now coming to market and that will also help to lower Tesla's market share.
05-23-2023, 12:46 PM
#91
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And? We are not living in a time when the automobile was first invented. I have no issue with an EV, but I don't particularly want to be a "pioneer". I would buy a Tesla now and drive it on trips, but not any other EV because they don't have the infastructure Tesla does...and I don't love Teslas...only one I would consider is a Model S and even then, I don't love the car. If I could charge it at Tesla superchargers I would get an i7 now. If the EQS looked like the S Class and I could charge it at Tesla Superchargers I would get one now...but I hate the styling of the EQS and then there is the charging issue.
05-23-2023, 12:59 PM
#92
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The engineers at Mercedes-Benz as well as engineers at auto companies in general understand these realities and this is pushing them to design vehicles that no longer run on the planet killing fossil fuels
Last edited by 190Efan; 05-23-2023 at 01:01 PM. Reason: Forgot a point
05-23-2023, 01:01 PM
#93
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Most people aren't engineers so they're buying the sales hype. After a few years of ownership where they experience the poor build quality and their allegedly driverless cars crashing into emergency vehicles, they'll change their tune. In the meantime, more manufacturers with better quality vehicles are now coming to market and that will also help to lower Tesla's market share.
Tesla also has some of the highest levels of customer retention and satisfaction in the industry, the bottom line is those buyers just value different things, the build quality issues (which are way overblown) aren't a big deal for them.
When cars were first invented they were not relied upon methods of transportation, they were a toy...people didn't drive long distances, the two situations just can't be compared. The EV infrastructure will get there, its just not there yet enough for me to take the leap with a car I plan to use for travel and not just daily driving.
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MBS63AMG (05-23-2023)
05-23-2023, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 190Efan
You're failing to note 2 realities, the planet killing fossil fuel will run out in the not too distant future and the continued burning of the planet killing fossil fuel is seriously poisoning our planet.
In about the next 50 years or so depending on how quickly the world moves away from burning fossil fuels. BTW, Saudi Arabia understands this and is now in the process of diversifying its economy away from oil.
You're failing to note 2 realities, the planet killing fossil fuel will run out in the not too distant future and the continued burning of the planet killing fossil fuel is seriously poisoning our planet.
In about the next 50 years or so depending on how quickly the world moves away from burning fossil fuels. BTW, Saudi Arabia understands this and is now in the process of diversifying its economy away from oil.
05-23-2023, 01:14 PM
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05-23-2023, 01:27 PM
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Oh please, not the engineer bull**** again lol
Tesla also has some of the highest levels of customer retention and satisfaction in the industry, the bottom line is those buyers just value different things, the build quality issues (which are way overblown) aren't a big deal for them.
Yet much more attractive cars are equally or close to as Aerodynamics.
When cars were first invented they were not relied upon methods of transportation, they were a toy...people didn't drive long distances, the two situations just can't be compared. The EV infrastructure will get there, its just not there yet enough for me to take the leap with a car I plan to use for travel and not just daily driving.
Tesla also has some of the highest levels of customer retention and satisfaction in the industry, the bottom line is those buyers just value different things, the build quality issues (which are way overblown) aren't a big deal for them.
Yet much more attractive cars are equally or close to as Aerodynamics.
When cars were first invented they were not relied upon methods of transportation, they were a toy...people didn't drive long distances, the two situations just can't be compared. The EV infrastructure will get there, its just not there yet enough for me to take the leap with a car I plan to use for travel and not just daily driving.
05-23-2023, 04:13 PM
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FYI, fossil fuel is created by burning the rotted remains of the dinosaurs who were killed when a catastrophic asteroid hit the Earth. There was a finite number of dinosaurs which means there's a finite supply of fossil fuel. The continued burning of fossil fuels is strangling our planet's respiratory system in the same way that cigarette smoking poisons a human beings respiratory system. Our planet is telling us this on a now daily basis with rising temperatures which are causing the polar ice caps to melt which is then causing sea level rise. Warmer air is causing the weather patterns to change resulting in longer and hotter heat waves, more intense hurricanes and droughts, longer, hotter summers, longer allergy seasons, tropical diseases showing up in non-tropical parts of the world such as the West Nile and Zika tropical diseases now being found in non-tropical North America. My engineer father with bachelors and masters degrees in engineering, more than 40 years of aviation and automotive engineering work experience and was a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers well understood these now well established facts. His solution was green sourced hydrogen which is the most abundant element in the universe with water being the only by-product when green hydrogen is burned. It's time for you to understand these facts and unavoidable realities as well.
The engineers at Mercedes-Benz as well as engineers at auto companies in general understand these realities and this is pushing them to design vehicles that no longer run on the planet killing fossil fuels
The engineers at Mercedes-Benz as well as engineers at auto companies in general understand these realities and this is pushing them to design vehicles that no longer run on the planet killing fossil fuels
Last edited by MBS63AMG; 05-23-2023 at 04:26 PM.
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05-23-2023, 04:16 PM
#100
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Originally Posted by 190Efan
You're failing to note 2 realities, the planet killing fossil fuel will run out in the not too distant future and the continued burning of the planet killing fossil fuel is seriously poisoning our planet.
In about the next 50 years or so depending on how quickly the world moves away from burning fossil fuels. BTW, Saudi Arabia understands this and is now in the process of diversifying its economy away from oil.
You're failing to note 2 realities, the planet killing fossil fuel will run out in the not too distant future and the continued burning of the planet killing fossil fuel is seriously poisoning our planet.
In about the next 50 years or so depending on how quickly the world moves away from burning fossil fuels. BTW, Saudi Arabia understands this and is now in the process of diversifying its economy away from oil.
Last edited by MBS63AMG; 05-23-2023 at 04:18 PM.
