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2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by ArcticSilver
Thank you for the replies everyone. If this last 30-day episode was the only occurrence, I'd be inclined to agree that the 2-month offer is over and above. The car has been in the shop for recurring issues much longer than that. Well more than 90 days since delivery. I'm not trying to be a grinder and certainly not trying to win the trailer park lottery here.
Since getting it back, I am again getting numerous sensor failure messages (lane change assist, active brake assist, etc etc) indicating all sorts of impending disasters (kidding), and now the rear interior lights don't work again. It's been there 2x for that previously.
In the end though....I want this to end. I'm certain that they'll ask for language that limits my further options and remedies. I sure would if I was them. I'll use the 2-months of cash toward an extended warranty and they can just enjoy the steady stream of warranty claims this car will give them. We shall see.
Thank you.
You sir are a MUCH more patient and reasonable person than I am. You are the EXACT type of customer MB & other companies should be doing everything possible to attract & retain.Best of luck to you.
You sir are a MUCH more patient and reasonable person than I am. You are the EXACT type of customer MB & other companies should be doing everything possible to attract & retain.Best of luck to you.
Definitely, although I don’t think loyalty really matters to these people anymore. To any manufacturer for that matter. We’re just a statistic to them, a replaceable number on a spreadsheet.
Most executives these days either don’t care or are too blind to see the effects of long-term customer relationships because it’s intangible to them. It doesn’t net immediate rewards yet it certainly establishes long-term benefits if they have any sense of vision. We have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they truly must not care or it’s something that can’t be actively tracked and monitored on a spreadsheet or in their pea brains (like the executive that rubber stamped the 9-speed transmission) because the decision to abandon these customers is mind boggling if you think about it.
Well, I understand the European overengineered part engine wise what I meant in terms of more complexity was for example was for the additional complexity from the 48V mild hybrid system. The ISG and stuff.
As for the putting things back together I was just stating my experience and my friend's experience. Dealerships (well not all of course, luck of the draw I guess but so far 3 here in Canada) can't put a dashboard back on properly, this that OP went through was basically that but on steroids.
I agree MBs are not that hard to work with in general, my indie prefers working on MB than BMW.
Yeah the stuff they're bolting to the basic engine scares me a bit. We'll see how the ISG pans out.... along with the turbocharging, supercharging, reliance on every conceivable sensor to make things work, etc.
Regarding putting things back together... there's nuance here. You're saying the dealerships can't put a dashboard back together properly... the reason for that is not skill but time and patience. On a dashboard you're much more likely to skip a screw/nut/bolt/clip and not pay as much attention, because it's tedious, fiddly, and low risk. When you do more meat-and-potatoes work such as removing/installing an engine, the process is way less tedious (I'd rather pull an engine than a dashboard), the work much more familiar, and the stakes higher so you're going to ensure the manual is followed properly, the torque values and nuances are taken care of, just in general the work is done better.
I wouldn't be concerned with an engine that's been pulled or swapped out of a mercedes done at a mercedes dealership. Genuinely.
I just scanned the service order/invoice/whatever it's called; So it looks like your right side cam positioner went bad causing all the engine issues, so they replaced it along with all the work around that. They replaced the motor mounts that went bad (come on mercedes, get these stupid things right), and a doing adaptations relieved the poor 3rd to 2nd gear downshift on the transmission.
They also scratched your hood and buffed it out lol (Mercedes owns up to their work). Then they did a complementary detail.
If I were a betting person, the only issue here one might expect to re-emerge is the transmission. Hopefully the adaptations took care of it
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by Fried Chicken
Yeah the stuff they're bolting to the basic engine scares me a bit. We'll see how the ISG pans out.... along with the turbocharging, supercharging, reliance on every conceivable sensor to make things work, etc.
Regarding putting things back together... there's nuance here. You're saying the dealerships can't put a dashboard back together properly... the reason for that is not skill but time and patience. On a dashboard you're much more likely to skip a screw/nut/bolt/clip and not pay as much attention, because it's tedious, fiddly, and low risk. When you do more meat-and-potatoes work such as removing/installing an engine, the process is way less tedious (I'd rather pull an engine than a dashboard), the work much more familiar, and the stakes higher so you're going to ensure the manual is followed properly, the torque values and nuances are taken care of, just in general the work is done better.
I wouldn't be concerned with an engine that's been pulled or swapped out of a mercedes done at a mercedes dealership. Genuinely.
For anyone following along, the car will be heading back into the service department this coming week. Since getting it back, here's the current list of issues:
- I'm still getting continuous warnings about systems failing (active brake assist, active blind spot assist, active emergency stop assist, etc etc....). The car has been in many times for these system malfunction warnings.
- The rear interior lights will not turn on via the overhead console button near the rearview mirror, or via the buttons in the back seat. This is a repeat issue.
- Replacing two more tires due to screws (no one's fault, just part of new developments and construction site visits). I am switching to PZero's away from the Hankooks due to constant issues getting Hankook replacements. I'm not sure what's wrong with their supply chain.)
- The transmission still is massively unpleasant when downshifting from 3-2, especially when lugging up an incline. This occurs most painfully in Comfort mode, and is more tolerable in S+ mode. I've raised this issue on every single service visit.
- The car has now started doing emergency braking maneuvers without any justification, which are quite alarming to experience. This weekend I was cruising along, minding my own business as they say. And then suddenly without any reason or warning, the car is beeping at me with the seat belt tightening, and applying the brakes very aggressively which brought me forward into the seat belt and dipped my chin to chest. At first I was thankful that it stopped me from hitting an apparent brick wall I overlooked. But no such obstacle existed. I've not checked the footage from the built-in dash cam yet, but I'm hoping it captured the incident and the complete lack of a cause for it.
I've also discovered that to date, MBUSA has spent more than $57,000 on warranty repairs to this car. The last visit alone that kicked this thread off was a tick over $10k by itself.
This **** is getting old!
Last edited by ArcticSilver; 08-25-2024 at 10:55 PM.
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by ArcticSilver
For anyone following along, the car will be heading back into the service department this coming week. Since getting it back, here's the current list of issues:
- I'm still getting continuous warnings about systems failing (active brake assist, active blind spot assist, active emergency stop assist, etc etc....). The car has been in many times for these system malfunction warnings.
- The rear interior lights will not turn on via the overhead console button near the rearview mirror, or via the buttons in the back seat. This is a repeat issue.
- Replacing two more tires due to screws (no one's fault, just part of new developments and construction site visits). I am switching to PZero's away from the Hankooks due to constant issues getting Hankook replacements. I'm not sure what's wrong with their supply chain.)
- The transmission still is massively unpleasant when downshifting from 3-2, especially when lugging up an incline. This occurs most painfully in Comfort mode, and is more tolerable in S+ mode. I've raised this issue on every single service visit.
- The car has now started doing emergency braking maneuvers without any justification, which are quite alarming to experience. This weekend I was cruising along, minding my own business as they say. And then suddenly without any reason or warning, the car is beeping at me with the seat belt tightening, and applying the brakes very aggressively which brought me forward into the seat belt and dipped my chin to chest. At first I was thankful that it stopped me from hitting an apparent brick wall I overlooked. But no such obstacle existed. I've not checked the footage from the built-in dash cam yet, but I'm hoping it captured the incident and the complete lack of a cause for it.
I've also discovered that to date, MBUSA has spent more than $57,000 on warranty repairs to this car. The last visit alone that kicked this thread off was a tick over $10k by itself.
This **** is getting old!
UGH!!! I sincerely hope they somehow buy it back through lemon law soon!
Does it have anything to do with the huge surgery of the car
The car seems to have gone back together quite well without drama or fingerprints of the event.
The warning lights and interior light issues and other electrical gremlins have been reoccurring since new. The active emergency braking event for absolutely no reason however is a brand new thing.
Last edited by ArcticSilver; 08-26-2024 at 10:12 AM.
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by ArcticSilver
The car seems to have gone back together quite well without drama or fingerprints of the event.
The warning lights and interior light issues and other electrical gremlins have been reoccurring since new. The active emergency braking event for absolutely no reason however is a brand new thing.
I see, at least good to hear the surgery has nothing to do with it. Are they sure there are no outstanding updates?
The car seems to have gone back together quite well without drama or fingerprints of the event.
The warning lights and interior light issues and other electrical gremlins have been reoccurring since new. The active emergency braking event for absolutely no reason however is a brand new thing.
What are your plans with the car? Keep riding it out, or talk to an attorney?
What are your plans with the car? Keep riding it out, or talk to an attorney?
MBUSA has said no to a buy-back. My attorney is on stand-by. I want the car to be in the shop again this week with another instance of the recurring problems being documented, as well as the new issue of phantom emergency braking being noted. Then I'll re-evaluate when/if I send legal notice.
I'm sickeningly upside in this car, so selling or trading isn't an option. And I purchased instead of leased, so I can turn this turd back in to them. So my worst case is getting an extended warranty to 100k miles and hanging onto it. That will be costly for the manufacturer though, as I'm already at nearly $60k into warranty claims with just 40k miles on it in 2 years.
On the bright side, I truly do love the car when it works. I just hate being in an abusive relationship. lol
Last edited by ArcticSilver; 08-26-2024 at 05:59 PM.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by ArcticSilver
MBUSA has said no to a buy-back. My attorney is on stand-by. I want the car to be in the shop again this week with another instance of the recurring problems being documents, as well as the new issue of phantom emergency braking being noted. Then I'll re-evaluate when/if I send legal notice.
I'm sickeningly upside in this car, so selling or trading isn't an option. And I purchased instead of leased, so I can turn this turd back in to them. So my worst case is getting an extended warranty to 100k miles and hanging onto it. That will be costly for the manufacturer though, as I'm already at nearly $60k into warranty claims with just 40k miles on it in 2 years.
On the bright side, I truly do love the car when it works. I just hate being in an abusive relationship. lol
If I were you, I would try to compromise with MBUSA: Offer to buy a new S580, but ask them to make the deal a reasonable one, considering the circumstances. They have the ability to come up with HUGE dollars against the purchase. Perhaps they could cough up $30K to $50K towards the new car, taking your car in on trade. There are a lot of options and as I have said before, YOU should be the type of customer they would want to keep happy. Keep at it and I'm sure this will come to a good end. Best of luck to you.
MBUSA has said no to a buy-back. My attorney is on stand-by. I want the car to be in the shop again this week with another instance of the recurring problems being documents, as well as the new issue of phantom emergency braking being noted. Then I'll re-evaluate when/if I send legal notice.
I'm sickeningly upside in this car, so selling or trading isn't an option. And I purchased instead of leased, so I can turn this turd back in to them. So my worst case is getting an extended warranty to 100k miles and hanging onto it. That will be costly for the manufacturer though, as I'm already at nearly $60k into warranty claims with just 40k miles on it in 2 years.
On the bright side, I truly do love the car when it works. I just hate being in an abusive relationship. lol
Of course they said no. This is why lemon law attorneys exist. They can change that answer to "Yes". I wish you luck with this. It's not a pleasant experience in any way.
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Best of luck OP, hopefully it works out in the end, I really doubt your suggestion of keeping it is worth the headache.
Even with an extended warranty fearing all sorts of things the car might or might not do because of the possibility of being a lemon at this point, what is the enjoyment of a car at this price when you have to worry about all these stuff?
S-Class should be pinnacle Mercedes-Benz. Not a headache and something that you have to non-stop worry about.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by polo1
Are these problems isolated...?
Is this just a bad car...?
Or are these problems common, somewhat common, etc. in the 2021+...?
The W223 is not a “bad” car. That said, it would appear that it has suffered with more continuing issues than the W221 or W222 models, with some issues continuing from 2021 through at least the 2023 model years. The jury is still out on the 2024’s. What the OP has experienced here—with the engine needing to be replaced is quite rare. Most issues have been nagging, irritating, tech related, but some, including myself with my 2022 S580, have experienced severe issues. Bottom line: Delve deeply into the threads in this forum and you will find the details.
Or are these problems common, somewhat common, etc. in the 2021+...?
I don't think it a bad car, and I love this car when it's working. Mine was built during the covid era, which I think directly correlates to build quality on my particular example. There are common problems which seem to be "enjoyed" by many however.
Wait a minute! That looks familiar but it only applied to the EQS/EQE there was a glitch of multiple system inoperative messages when tire pressure is too low. I am not sure if that is the root cause to your problem, if that was the cause all along then it would be wonderful that solves the problem!
Wait a minute! That looks familiar but it only applied to the EQS/EQE there was a glitch of multiple system inoperative messages when tire pressure is too low. I am not sure if that is the root cause to your problem, if that was the cause all along then it would be wonderful that solves the problem!
thank you for looking out and connecting dots. The tire issue is unfortunately unrelated though in my case. I’ve been getting the messages nonstop since the car was new. The tire issue is the result of a construction site visit. This video was taken on the way to the dealership to address all issues, including tires.
08-14-2024, 03:53 PM
You are the EXACT type of customer MB & other companies should be doing everything possible to attract & retain.Best of luck to you.
