WSH

What are people hearing re: '07 S65 demand....and discounts?

Have a good relationship w/a major CA dealer w/a deep customer base of repeat 65 buyers that doesn't have anyone (except me) willing to order a new S65.....MBUSA hasn't set pricing on car, even though in produc already....and '07 SL65 ordering is a by-appointment-only game, w/no takers, even at many major dealers.....are 65s going the way of the Maybach?????

Or is the $175K+ level a psychologic barrier for what vast majority of affluent guys are willing to pay for a MB, esp as 997TT and 599/612/430 become more mainstream/daily-usable/reliable/comfortable...and, in case of 997TT, as safe as any MB???

Brabus E55

id buy one in a heartbeat, as the 599,612 or even the 430 are nowhere close to that price range(a lot higher)

ClayJ

My build priced-out at over $200K USD -- that IS alot of money.....

WSH

Yes and no....a well-equipped 430Coupe is about $225K and a well-equipped 599 will prob be $325K.....big difference is 65 depreciates by about $60K the day one drives it off-lot, whereas after 5K mis, one can prob trade-in 430/599 for sticker.....suddenly, 65s become awfully expensive and F's look awfully cheap....P's GT2 had this problem....a roughly $200K price tag, w/instant $60K deprec....no surprise that P would struggle to sell 50 GT2/yr in US.....

I suspect 65 is suffering from the death spiral of GT2-like pricing/depreciation/minim differentiation vs already-excellent 55 (or Turbo in case of GT2) issues....if major dealers are already struggling to sell 65s in the fresh, new S-Class body and tech platform....and in the revised '07 SL....just imagine what the needed discounts will be....and how dismal the lease terms and resale value will be at trade-in, after a yr and 10-15K mis, when there's some new, cooler AMG motor, tranny and chassis tech to move on to....

Realize most US guys can't figure out how to get F's @MSRP, but I'd suspect many of the serial, new 65-type of custs are plugged-in at their F/P dealers as well as their MB dealer, so cross-shopping btwn brands/models is not difficult for serious buyers of $150-200K+ cars.....

david_101

i tend to believe that MB doesn't hold a warm spot in the 200k buyer's mind. that's into exotic territory and MBs typically aren't thought of as such.

far better to produce the 65s, put them on the sales floors, allow buyers to peruse and lust, then sell down to the 55s. why? because the buyer can have almost everything the 65 has to offer, but at around 25% less.

i also tend to believe that well-heeled buyers do not cross-shop MB with F or P. they're different animals. it's more likely that MB shoppers would shop BMW and perhaps audi. bentley probably is considered a small step above MB due to the former exclusivity and price, but is now available competitive with high-end MBs.

MBZFAN55

Mercedes dealers have been convinced by their factory that the S65 is a viable "price point" for dealers to pursue. They initially viewed the Bentley Continental and now the Flying Spur as a market for $165k Mercedes products. The problem is that basically an $86,000 S550 is too similar to the $175,000 S65. Yes it's faster, more special, and certainly an eye catcher for mbworld forum members, but nontheless, it still looks like the usual suspect. In between the S600 and the Maybach are a myriad of better products, more special and exclusive. Most dealers had trouble disposing of their W220 S65's allegedly due to the new W221 on the horizon. I am willing to bet that MB dealers will have a similar issue with the new S65, but for the reasons mentioned above.

david_101

well, thus far, the MB marketing folks have been wrong. true? anecdotal sales results, and very low and falling known production numbers seem to confirm the anecdotes. that's certainly true for the SL65, which isn't a new bodied model. and demand for the new S-bodied 65 seems to be dismal.

if it's true that 65s in a midlife body style SL and a new body style S (and in the old body style S) sold poorly, even given very low production numbers, then why is intramodel-similarity the issue and not price-point disparity?

WSH

Intriguing marketing experiment here.....my sense is roughly 50% of new $150K+ cars in US are sold into the SF and NYC mkts. My anecdotal sense is 90%+ of serious-money guys aren't really car guys....they'll just get a S/CL/SL55 for commuting duty....to look respectable and not too frumpy (vs a 550, BMW or Audi). The more car-oriented moneyed guys will likely get a 430 for wkend driving.

What's interesting to me is that in SiliconValley, several well-known tech multi-billionaires are typically seen driving around in their SL55....they never bothered "upgrading" to 65.....and per one of Silicon Valley's biggest MB dealers, no one seems very interested in '07 S/CL/SL65's....so, if Merc can't sell new, latest-platform 65s in SiliconValley, without massive discounts, it sounds like the Maybach debacle all over.....

I recall at launch of Maybach how the hedge fund titans of NYC (the biggest potential audience for Maybach in US) scoffed at it as a car for rapper wannabes (sort of like RR/B)....and in Manhattan, the biggest titans today tend to be driven around in taxi-like S550s, rather than even 600 or 65, let alone Maybach.....the "got nothing to prove" set prob tends to choose brands/models differently than the "aspirational" set.....

I suspect if one surveys the car choices of guys worth >$100MM, the most popular car is prob a 2yo S/CL/SL500/55/600, not any other more "exclusive" car.....when guys reach certain levels, no need for them to advertise their wealth....if anything, they become more paranoid re: personal security and prefer a more anonymous, low-profile in the urban/suburban centers where most guys of this net worth tend to live/work.....

ClayJ

People who can afford to buy whatever they want buy whatever they want -- it is as simple as that.

Not everyone with means is an enthusiast.

Those who are extremely wealthy generally do not give a shiznit about what others think or don't think of them.

I am not sure that it is any more complicated, or multi-faceted, than that.

david_101

where's the experiment?

i haven't been to SV in quite a while, and having no need to go there again any time soon, probably won't be there to site the notables in their cars. i'll take your word for it. i should be in NYC this weekend, so i'll keep my eyes open there.

your thoughts with which i outrightly agree are those about the paranoia increasing with wealth. and, i'm sorry to say i believe rightly so.