S65: engine mounts (type A or type B)
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2006 W220 S65 AMG
S65: engine mounts (type A or type B)
I don't have access to WIS at the moment, so can anyone please tell me if I have type A or type B engine mounts? My vin is WDBNG79J56A477014.
From what I understand, type A requires the engine to come out completely. Type B mounts only require removal of the exhaust plumbing and steering rack and lifting the engine 3-4" to gain enough clearance for the bolts.
From what I understand, type A requires the engine to come out completely. Type B mounts only require removal of the exhaust plumbing and steering rack and lifting the engine 3-4" to gain enough clearance for the bolts.
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
Sorry, best answer is probably go have a close look.
Type B is much easier, and you just unbolt 2a from underneath, remove the mounting, THEN separate plate 2 from mount 3. Fingers crossed.
Type A is more difficult, but doesn't need the engine to come out. However, you do need to remove or at least loosen mounting arm 1. That allows you to access the three bolts, which are too close to the turbo to access.
There are various options for type A. You could remove the exhaust and the steering rack. You lift the engine a bit. My favourite is to support the engine and drop the subframe. Even then it's difficult, and I wouldn't even start the job without getting a proper set of E-torx ratchet wrenches. Accessing the left top front bolt is one of life's great challenges.
Nick
Type B is much easier, and you just unbolt 2a from underneath, remove the mounting, THEN separate plate 2 from mount 3. Fingers crossed.
Type A is more difficult, but doesn't need the engine to come out. However, you do need to remove or at least loosen mounting arm 1. That allows you to access the three bolts, which are too close to the turbo to access.
There are various options for type A. You could remove the exhaust and the steering rack. You lift the engine a bit. My favourite is to support the engine and drop the subframe. Even then it's difficult, and I wouldn't even start the job without getting a proper set of E-torx ratchet wrenches. Accessing the left top front bolt is one of life's great challenges.
Nick
Last edited by Welwynnick; Mar 20, 2017 at 02:46 PM.
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2006 W220 S65 AMG
Hi Nick, thanks. I'll go have a look later. Would I be able to determine by looking from the top down?
Also, I thought with type B mounts, that the steering rack still has to be uncoupled and the exhaust dropped. At least that's what I read in the attached.
Either way, looks to be a royal PITA. In hindsight, I paid way too much money for this car ($27k) simply because it had low miles. Moral of the story - low mileage cars can still have huge problems, and never buy something sight unseen.
I need a good b@$!hslapping.
P.S. from the photo in the link below, can you tell if these are type A or B mounts? This is what fits for my car:
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mer...unt-2202400917
Also, I thought with type B mounts, that the steering rack still has to be uncoupled and the exhaust dropped. At least that's what I read in the attached.
Either way, looks to be a royal PITA. In hindsight, I paid way too much money for this car ($27k) simply because it had low miles. Moral of the story - low mileage cars can still have huge problems, and never buy something sight unseen.
I need a good b@$!hslapping.
P.S. from the photo in the link below, can you tell if these are type A or B mounts? This is what fits for my car:
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mer...unt-2202400917
Last edited by amstel78; Mar 20, 2017 at 04:09 PM.
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
Yes, you should be able to see which mount by looking from above, as long as you have a good light.
EDIT: You may want to remove one of the air filters first.
If it's a type B, you wouldn't have to remove the steering rack - I think you just have to detach the steering column from the rack so you can remove the exhaust. I doubt there would be room to remove the engine mount otherwise.
If you disconnect the steering column, make sure the steering wheel doesn't get turned far, or you break something expensive.
Sorry, I don't know enough about engine mounts to know if there's a difference between A and B. All I know is that A is the early type, and B is the late type. If you try to use information on the internet to figure this out, you will quite likely get bad information.
Don't sweat the car, all cars need ancillaries at some point. .
Nick
EDIT: You may want to remove one of the air filters first.
If it's a type B, you wouldn't have to remove the steering rack - I think you just have to detach the steering column from the rack so you can remove the exhaust. I doubt there would be room to remove the engine mount otherwise.
If you disconnect the steering column, make sure the steering wheel doesn't get turned far, or you break something expensive.
Sorry, I don't know enough about engine mounts to know if there's a difference between A and B. All I know is that A is the early type, and B is the late type. If you try to use information on the internet to figure this out, you will quite likely get bad information.
Don't sweat the car, all cars need ancillaries at some point. .
Nick
Last edited by Welwynnick; Mar 21, 2017 at 06:43 AM.
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 933
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2004 CLK 500
Hi Nick, thanks. I'll go have a look later. Would I be able to determine by looking from the top down?
Also, I thought with type B mounts, that the steering rack still has to be uncoupled and the exhaust dropped. At least that's what I read in the attached.
Either way, looks to be a royal PITA. In hindsight, I paid way too much money for this car ($27k) simply because it had low miles. Moral of the story - low mileage cars can still have huge problems, and never buy something sight unseen.
I need a good b@$!hslapping.
P.S. from the photo in the link below, can you tell if these are type A or B mounts? This is what fits for my car:
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mer...unt-2202400917
Also, I thought with type B mounts, that the steering rack still has to be uncoupled and the exhaust dropped. At least that's what I read in the attached.
Either way, looks to be a royal PITA. In hindsight, I paid way too much money for this car ($27k) simply because it had low miles. Moral of the story - low mileage cars can still have huge problems, and never buy something sight unseen.
I need a good b@$!hslapping.
P.S. from the photo in the link below, can you tell if these are type A or B mounts? This is what fits for my car:
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mer...unt-2202400917
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Thread Starter
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2006 W220 S65 AMG
Only question I have at this point regarding the engine mount for the W220 S65 is this. Are there two different type mounts depending on whether one has type A or type B attachment points? Or is it the same mount, but designed to work with either type attachment points?
The mounts I found for my car on your website only has 1 corresponding MB part number: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mer...unt-2202400917
Just trying to determine if they were mount type specific.
Many thanks,
James
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W215 CL65
mounts
I am fairly certain that all m275 cars W220 and W215 had the new type for years from 2005. Because of this, all S65 should have the new type B(easier to change). Of course you can verify by looking from underneath, or from on top. Best view is passenger side and should be pretty clear. (look at whether heat shield is above or below engine mount bracket)
Actually easy to change if you ask me.
Actually easy to change if you ask me.
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From: Miami, FL
2003 CL 600
Yeah it was a year thing, pretty sure the 65 cars got the newer arms. My '03 didn't have them, I dropped the subfame. But by '06 they knew that was retarded and were installing the updated arms. I should have bought a set but one side was coming out of germany and I didn't want my car apart that long so I put the stockers back. I'll cry when I have to do it again.
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2006 W220 S65 AMG
So I had a chance to check the mount arms over the weekend. In an S65, you really can't see anything from the top down. Had to look from the bottom up, but yes, I do have the type B mounts. That's good news I suppose. Now I have to mentally prepare myself for tackling this job over the course of next winter. Yech...
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2006 W220 S65 AMG
I don't know Joe. There's not a whole lot of room because the steering rack is in the way. As for dropping the exhaust, are we talking about everything from the turbos back?
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W215 CL65
As for steering rack, the drivers side downpipes (after turbo) cannot be removed without disconnecting the steering shaft from the rack. (physically impossible without removing). You disconnect the steering shaft from the rack and push up into the bulkhead. This will provide all the room you need given that you can work from the front and back so long as the downpipes are removed.
Best
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E420
If you don't want to be working around two jacks, use this one to support the engine http://m.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-c...bar-96524.html use a 20% off coupon and you'll be paying 60 ish dollars. Way cheaper than a decent jack if you only have one. Put a rag or something under the giant wing nuts because the paint flakes off a little on the brace.
Get some nickel anti seize for the new v band clamps, makes disassembly way easier if you need to get in the area again.
Get some nickel anti seize for the new v band clamps, makes disassembly way easier if you need to get in the area again.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jan 2017
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2006 W220 S65 AMG
If you don't want to be working around two jacks, use this one to support the engine http://m.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-c...bar-96524.html use a 20% off coupon and you'll be paying 60 ish dollars. Way cheaper than a decent jack if you only have one. Put a rag or something under the giant wing nuts because the paint flakes off a little on the brace.
Get some nickel anti seize for the new v band clamps, makes disassembly way easier if you need to get in the area again.
Get some nickel anti seize for the new v band clamps, makes disassembly way easier if you need to get in the area again.
Question: if using that brace, where are the attachment points located on the engine. Trying to remember if there were eyelets or anchors for a brace or engine hoist but can't recall.
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From: Miami, FL
2003 CL 600
Remove the downpipes. You get access for v band clamp bolts by inserting long extension through the plastic (there are slits). Pretty easy however I would recommend you order new bolts for the v band clamp from mercedes as they are old, probably bent from use, and impossible to source anywhere else or find another bolt that will work there.
As for steering rack, the drivers side downpipes (after turbo) cannot be removed without disconnecting the steering shaft from the rack. (physically impossible without removing). You disconnect the steering shaft from the rack and push up into the bulkhead. This will provide all the room you need given that you can work from the front and back so long as the downpipes are removed.
Best
As for steering rack, the drivers side downpipes (after turbo) cannot be removed without disconnecting the steering shaft from the rack. (physically impossible without removing). You disconnect the steering shaft from the rack and push up into the bulkhead. This will provide all the room you need given that you can work from the front and back so long as the downpipes are removed.
Best
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From: Miami, FL
2003 CL 600
Thanks for the link. That support is a good idea although I imagine I'd still need a jack under the oil pan to slightly lift the engine to get the new mounts in. Can I use a 2x4 and a jack to lift the motor safely under the oil pan, or do you suggest an alternate place?
Question: if using that brace, where are the attachment points located on the engine. Trying to remember if there were eyelets or anchors for a brace or engine hoist but can't recall.
Question: if using that brace, where are the attachment points located on the engine. Trying to remember if there were eyelets or anchors for a brace or engine hoist but can't recall.
The upper brace carrier, the only hook on the M275 is right by the water outlet in the front, the carrier lands on the radiator support by the headlights if you use a straight one. The MB special tool one is a 4-leg one that spreads the load but it still puts a lot of weight on the front cross beam for my taste. I did use it, also during the subframe drop, to carry the engine when I removed the pole jack and slid the subframe out from under the car so I had space. I then put the jack back and held the engine up for the next 2 days the car was apart on my lift, but I asked other guys and they had no issue leaving it hanging on the upper support in their experience.
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
Remove the downpipes. You get access for v band clamp bolts by inserting long extension through the plastic (there are slits).
.... You disconnect the steering shaft from the rack and push up into the bulkhead. This will provide all the room you need given that you can work from the front and back so long as the downpipes are removed.
.... You disconnect the steering shaft from the rack and push up into the bulkhead. This will provide all the room you need given that you can work from the front and back so long as the downpipes are removed.
If you disconnect the steering column:
1. Detach the rack end, not the bulkhead end. I did the latter first time, and it's VERY difficult to get the shaft back on. You keep pushing it back into the cabin.
2. Don't spin the steering wheel round, or you'll break some expensive electrics.
Nick
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,605
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
If you don't want to be working around two jacks, use this one to support the engine http://m.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-c...bar-96524.html use a 20% off coupon and you'll be paying 60 ish dollars. Way cheaper than a decent jack if you only have one. Put a rag or something under the giant wing nuts because the paint flakes off a little on the brace.
It would only work if you used a two-point lifting sling.
Nick
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2006 W220 S65 AMG
I assume this is in reference to the tranny mount I sent back last week? This is for order # R306144303
Best,
James
