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2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
“Handsome and Fast” is what they say. Speaking as a resident of the USA, where I don’t think you can legally drive over 85mph anywhere—and not over 65 or 70 in most places—the recently departed R231’s, especially the V8 models, but even my little V6, are SO frigging quick & fast, that anything quicker or faster is massive overkill and not worthy of the headline. How fast is fast enough? I believe we reached “quick enough” and “fast enough” many years ago. In exchange for what can only be described as “faster” and probably “quicker,” we give up our retractable hardtop and a car design that was unique in the marketplace. Also, if the interior dimensions are similar to those of the AMG GT, which looks like they will be, the interior will be what I would call reasonably cramped, compared to the spacious feeling of the R231’s. I still think this car will be a huge compromise, when they should have pulled out all the stops to make it spectacular and very unique. And I know all the reasons why Wolf, sharing the platform, low sales, blah, blah, blah, but I don’t care. MB is a juggernaut and should have made the SL exceptionally special, just to show the world what they can do. Instead, we get the car piggy-backed onto another design and maybe, if we’re really lucky, we’ll see an SL SUV variant, with a “coupe” version as well, of course.
My favorite Tom Hanks movie quote: “Of course it’s hard. It’s supposed to be hard. If it were easy, everybody would do it. Hard is what makes it great.”
“Handsome and Fast” is what they say. Speaking as a resident of the USA, where I don’t think you can legally drive over 85mph anywhere—and not over 65 or 70 in most places—the recently departed R231’s, especially the V8 models, but even my little V6, are SO frigging quick & fast, that anything quicker or faster is massive overkill and not worthy of the headline. How fast is fast enough? I believe we reached “quick enough” and “fast enough” many years ago. In exchange for what can only be described as “faster” and probably “quicker,” we give up our retractable hardtop and a car design that was unique in the marketplace. Also, if the interior dimensions are similar to those of the AMG GT, which looks like they will be, the interior will be what I would call reasonably cramped, compared to the spacious feeling of the R231’s. I still think this car will be a huge compromise, when they should have pulled out all the stops to make it spectacular and very unique. And I know all the reasons why Wolf, sharing the platform, low sales, blah, blah, blah, but I don’t care. MB is a juggernaut and should have made the SL exceptionally special, just to show the world what they can do. Instead, we get the car piggy-backed onto another design and maybe, if we’re really lucky, we’ll see an SL SUV variant, with a “coupe” version as well, of course.
My favorite Tom Hanks movie quote: “Of course it’s hard. It’s supposed to be hard. If it were easy, everybody would do it. Hard is what makes it great.”
I think at this point I am happy there will be another SL. I think this is happening only because of the heritage and focus on higher-end models. Mercedes know that it needs to move full steam forward in tech to be viable for the next decades...
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I think at this point I am happy there will be another SL. I think this is happening only because of the heritage and focus on higher-end models. Mercedes know that it needs to move full steam forward in tech to be viable for the next decades...
As most always, I’m sure you are right. That said, I guess I’ll go back to my thoughts about “Halo” cars. Something really special. It probably won’t sell in big numbers, will probably be reasonably impractical, but will cause people who see it to stop and stare, with lust in their eyes. Maybe the way people reacted to the first series Jaguar E Type, early Ferrari’s and the original 300SL’s. Most folks can’t afford one, but the image of the 3-Pointed Star on the amazingly sexy two seater will remain with them and a good number will buy a lesser model, similarly adorned. And, as focused as MB needs to be on tech & the future, this huge company should not entirely ignore its past. A modern day SL, embracing all that is great from today, but with a definite nod to the past, would really be something to behold.
As a young man, the car that I lusted after was the Ferrari 275 GTS:
“Handsome and Fast” is what they say. Speaking as a resident of the USA, where I don’t think you can legally drive over 85mph anywhere—and not over 65 or 70 in most places—the recently departed R231’s, especially the V8 models, but even my little V6, are SO frigging quick & fast, that anything quicker or faster is massive overkill and not worthy of the headline. How fast is fast enough? I believe we reached “quick enough” and “fast enough” many years ago. In exchange for what can only be described as “faster” and probably “quicker,” we give up our retractable hardtop and a car design that was unique in the marketplace. Also, if the interior dimensions are similar to those of the AMG GT, which looks like they will be, the interior will be what I would call reasonably cramped, compared to the spacious feeling of the R231’s. I still think this car will be a huge compromise, when they should have pulled out all the stops to make it spectacular and very unique. And I know all the reasons why Wolf, sharing the platform, low sales, blah, blah, blah, but I don’t care. MB is a juggernaut and should have made the SL exceptionally special, just to show the world what they can do. Instead, we get the car piggy-backed onto another design and maybe, if we’re really lucky, we’ll see an SL SUV variant, with a “coupe” version as well, of course.
My favorite Tom Hanks movie quote: “Of course it’s hard. It’s supposed to be hard. If it were easy, everybody would do it. Hard is what makes it great.”
Well said Streamliner and I agree on all counts, especially the bolded comments.
If I wanted only speed there are many other cars I’d get before an SL. But for what I want out of a weekend car I think the SL is the best out there.
My favorite Tom Hanks movie quote: “Of course it’s hard. It’s supposed to be hard. If it were easy, everybody would do it. Hard is what makes it great.”
Or as Dr. Porsche is oft quoted: Change Is Easy Improvement Is Far More Difficult:
Me thinks the R231 to be the end of the bespoke SL Mercedes vehicles. Mine looks better all the time.
As most always, I’m sure you are right. That said, I guess I’ll go back to my thoughts about “Halo” cars. Something really special. It probably won’t sell in big numbers, will probably be reasonably impractical, but will cause people who see it to stop and stare, with lust in their eyes. Maybe the way people reacted to the first series Jaguar E Type, early Ferrari’s and the original 300SL’s. Most folks can’t afford one, but the image of the 3-Pointed Star on the amazingly sexy two seater will remain with them and a good number will buy a lesser model, similarly adorned. And, as focused as MB needs to be on tech & the future, this huge company should not entirely ignore its past. A modern day SL, embracing all that is great from today, but with a definite nod to the past, would really be something to behold.
As a young man, the car that I lusted after was the Ferrari 275 GTS:
People still lust after this Ferrari!
We discussed this many times before, the SL is not considered the halo car of Mercedes anymore. The S-Class from a luxury sedan side and the AMG GT from the performance side.
The latest entry is the AMG GT Black Series, Mercedes most expensive car (non-Maybach) to date at likely $400k. At least until the $3M+ AMG ONE is coming online next year.
This is to some extend the road going version of the GT3 race car and while I love the AMG GTR, this one isn't even pretty; just functional and very capable...
But, the next SL will definitely be a more bespoke SL than the current one. Soft-top be damned. It should also be a prettier car...
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by Wolfman
People still lust after this Ferrari! Yes, I sure do, but can’t get behind the idea of putting over $1 million in a car, no matter how nice it is.
We discussed this many times before, I know. the SL is not considered the halo car of Mercedes anymore. But that’s the point, IT SHOULD BE! The S-Class from a luxury sedan side and the AMG GT from the performance side. The AMG cars should be AMG cars. The SL should be the top line Mercedes roadster. It should be S Class quality, desired by S Class drivers.....and everyone else! It used to be that way.........................
We all want the SL to be more luxurious and I believe it will be if MB follows their yacht theme (me hoping). I think the hard top discussion is over based on these pics. The SL will have at least a $100k price span between models and options, so it will be bespoke (to misuse this phrase again).
Sticker shock for many. No sub $100k model. Our GTC is the mid-level GT roadster and even that price starts at $162k base price. Am thinking this will be similar on the new SL with the new SL73 well above the old SL65 $200k mark.
And yes, the Ferrari is gorgeous but not worth the money (to me) and never worth driving. These things are simply too unsafe for todays traffic...
Just to clarify my reference to the word bespoke, it is in keeping with the understanding that "Bespoke is not exactly a new term, but it seems to be gaining in popularity. It means the opposite of off-the-rack. Bespoke clothing is custom-made clothing. ... A made-to-measure item is a standard one customized at the factory in certain measurements and details. Bespoke is made from scratch to your specifications"
And in those terms my use of the word in regards to the SL is that the R231 appears to be the last SL to be made on it's own chassis and underpinnings, as the previous generations were. Going forward the shared platform which the SL will be on seems to be a step back in some ways, however when it sees the light of day, and our eyes, I am sure that we shall each arrive at our own level of acceptance and opinion.
Just to clarify my reference to the word bespoke, it is in keeping with the understanding that "Bespoke is not exactly a new term, but it seems to be gaining in popularity. It means the opposite of off-the-rack. Bespoke clothing is custom-made clothing. ... A made-to-measure item is a standard one customized at the factory in certain measurements and details. Bespoke is made from scratch to your specifications"
And in those terms my use of the word in regards to the SL is that the R231 appears to be the last SL to be made on it's own chassis and underpinnings, as the previous generations were. Going forward the shared platform which the SL will be on seems to be a step back in some ways, however when it sees the light of day, and our eyes, I am sure that we shall each arrive at our own level of acceptance and opinion.
My apologies if I have misused the term.
I understood the term for customization In the end, this is what matters on these cars. How can we configure the car inside-out to our liking.
The new MSA platform is truly of no relevance as it should be a step up from the current SL. This is Mercedes' new sports car platform and shared with the GT. Should be great dynamically, very rigid and lighter. Current GT roadster is already lighter than a 911 Turbo...
“Handsome and Fast” is what they say. Speaking as a resident of the USA, where I don’t think you can legally drive over 85mph anywhere—and not over 65 or 70 in most places—the recently departed R231’s, especially the V8 models, but even my little V6, are SO frigging quick & fast, that anything quicker or faster is massive overkill and not worthy of the headline. How fast is fast enough? I believe we reached “quick enough” and “fast enough” many years ago. In exchange for what can only be described as “faster” and probably “quicker,” we give up our retractable hardtop and a car design that was unique in the marketplace. Also, if the interior dimensions are similar to those of the AMG GT, which looks like they will be, the interior will be what I would call reasonably cramped, compared to the spacious feeling of the R231’s. I still think this car will be a huge compromise, when they should have pulled out all the stops to make it spectacular and very unique. And I know all the reasons why Wolf, sharing the platform, low sales, blah, blah, blah, but I don’t care. MB is a juggernaut and should have made the SL exceptionally special, just to show the world what they can do. Instead, we get the car piggy-backed onto another design and maybe, if we’re really lucky, we’ll see an SL SUV variant, with a “coupe” version as well, of course.
My favorite Tom Hanks movie quote: “Of course it’s hard. It’s supposed to be hard. If it were easy, everybody would do it. Hard is what makes it great.”
If there were more people who thought things were "good enough" mankind would make no progress. Speed is amazing, more of it is always welcome IMO. A racetrack is a place where one can speed and go fast. People who buy fast cars usually take them there! The SL is special, but the next generation will be a massive improvement. I don't care for the hardtop since it's advantages are not worth it over its caveats, and the car is much too outdated. Besides, how could it be cramped if they've managed to add another row of seats?
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by Keon
If there were more people who thought things were "good enough" mankind would make no progress. Speed is amazing, more of it is always welcome IMO. A racetrack is a place where one can speed and go fast. People who buy fast cars usually take them there! The SL is special, but the next generation will be a massive improvement. I don't care for the hardtop since it's advantages are not worth it over its caveats, and the car is much too outdated. Besides, how could it be cramped if they've managed to add another row of seats?
Sorry, but the vast majority of folks who own exceptionally fast cars, never take them to the track, only a handful do. The R231 is outdated in many ways, but many of us prefer our cars to be a bit more traditional and less cutting edge. Anyway, you have your opinion, I have mine.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by Keon
....................Speed is amazing, more of it is always welcome IMO................
I saw a write up on a new Bentley SUV that can go something like 196mph. What good is it? Will anyone ever drive it SAFELY anywhere near that speed? What if it could go 296mph? Would THAT be a good thing, on roads designed for sub 100mph speeds, with 99.9% of traffic moving at sub 85mph speeds? More speed may be desired for cars used on a race track, but my feeling is that engineering and actually building passenger vehicles that can go much over the 120mph mark is reasonably ridiculous. I know I’ll catch hell for this, but in addition to imposing electronically limiting top speeds for road cars—which ought to be 120mph—I’d like to see acceleration rates limited as well. Nobody needs a sub three second 0 to 60 vehicle on the street, nobody.
I saw a write up on a new Bentley SUV that can go something like 196mph. What good is it? Will anyone ever drive it SAFELY anywhere near that speed? What if it could go 296mph? Would THAT be a good thing, on roads designed for sub 100mph speeds, with 99.9% of traffic moving at sub 85mph speeds? More speed may be desired for cars used on a race track, but my feeling is that engineering and actually building passenger vehicles that can go much over the 120mph mark is reasonably ridiculous. I know I’ll catch hell for this, but in addition to imposing electronically limiting top speeds for road cars—which ought to be 120mph—I’d like to see acceleration rates limited as well. Noboeraldy needs a sub three second 0 to 60 vehicle on the street, nobody.
I'm no bleeding heart liberal but I tend to agree. I would like my vehicles to accelerate briskly to highway speeds say 75-80 mph in less than 6-7 seconds. I lived in Germany for 3 years and been back 5 times on European Deliveries of new BMWs.. Yes, driving on the Autobahn at 150 mph is exhilarating BUT it was designed for high speeds, it is well maintained, unlimited speed is legal in some areas on the Autobahn, other vehicles are driving at similar speeds, slower vehicles stay to the right, no one passes on the right and almost everyone uses their turn signals to indicate their intentions.
None of this is true in the USA.
I saw a write up on a new Bentley SUV that can go something like 196mph. What good is it? Will anyone ever drive it SAFELY anywhere near that speed? What if it could go 296mph? Would THAT be a good thing, on roads designed for sub 100mph speeds, with 99.9% of traffic moving at sub 85mph speeds? More speed may be desired for cars used on a race track, but my feeling is that engineering and actually building passenger vehicles that can go much over the 120mph mark is reasonably ridiculous. I know I’ll catch hell for this, but in addition to imposing electronically limiting top speeds for road cars—which ought to be 120mph—I’d like to see acceleration rates limited as well. Nobody needs a sub three second 0 to 60 vehicle on the street, nobody.
Funny thing is that the fastest Bentley model isn’t sold in Germany where it could actually be used...
While drivers over here are definitely less educated and not disciplined enough to have no speed limit, the outdated speed limits in the US are there strictly for revenue generation and not for safety. We still have lots of highways with a 55mph speed limit.
Cars with their active & passive systems are much safer than they were 20-30 years ago. Rant over
I will disagree on the acceleration aspect; more cars should be able to go sub-3 second to 60 IMO. For one, it is fun to drive quick cars and high torque cars are safer in traffic due to their ability to maneuver and pass faster when needed. Our GLE is infuriatingly slow, making it no fun to drive.
Mercedes SL’s were always quick cars for their time and should stay that way at minimum. These are not designed to just be cruisers...
From my standpoint the problem with modern cars having so much excess power is that tire technology and common physics cannot be improved to match this power unless one wants to drive around with “Summer tires” that wear out in 7-10 thousand miles.
I have my ‘19 SL 550 remapped with a Renntech chip and it spins the wheels at full throttle from start up to 25-30 mph and blipping the throttle even a bit on turns or curves results in spinning wheels. I already have more torque than the tires can handle. These are the Michelin PS3+ if I remember correctly.
Being born and raised Catholic all my life and as the joke goes, excess power on a lot of cars is about as useful as double D ***** on a nun.....😊
As someone who has owned lots of performance cars and rods including a 1965 Shelby Cobra with a 427FE and a GT40 MK11 with a 427FE both street legal that I ran on the street ...(put 18K miles on the Cobra and 15K miles on the 40 during ownership).....but, never raced on the street) I can tell you that I am as pleased with the SL550 acceleration and performance that is usable on the street as I was with the Cobra AND the 40.
Cobra now lives in Germany and the 40 near the race track in NC, loved just the idea of owning them and using them but, in my opinion the SL550 with ABC has all that is needed UNLESS you/one will track it.
Was an experience to own and work on them but, I don't get shake rattled and rolled like I did in the Cobra or boiled like I did in the 40 when driving the SL and the SL is plenty fast when needed, comfortable, relatively unique and when ordered with all options loaded with tech.
I'm so sold on the SL I just bought out the 3 yr lease but, did get a 3 yr factory ELW (just in case)
I feel something is getting lost in the discussion. There is no need to defend the SL as-is, it is a fantastic convertible. But somehow there seems to be the opinion that making the car more powerful would somehow diminish it.
I am bought into the SL and understand its qualities (have had multiple of each last 3 generations) but after having the GTC also realize that the current platform has some deficiencies. The AMG happens to be quicker and faster but it also is more fun to drive because the car is more balanced. It is less front heavy than even the the SL450 because it’s a front-mid engine and puts the power down better than the SL because there is more weight in the rear with the transaxle (transmission on the rear axle).
Some of that DNA will not hurt the SL.
There is literally only one thing I will miss and that is the hard top. To me, at least, this is no big deal...
08-14-2020, 10:37 AM
the SL is not considered the halo car of Mercedes anymore. But that’s the point, IT SHOULD BE! The S-Class from a luxury sedan side and the AMG GT from the performance side. The AMG cars should be AMG cars. The SL should be the top line Mercedes roadster. It should be S Class quality, desired by S Class drivers.....and everyone else! It used to be that way.........................
In the end, this is what matters on these cars. How can we configure the car inside-out to our liking.
