Fr33kn63

+1
I am going to have to agree with you on this one. All tunes I have ever had have some minor initial impact, but have always had to put a couple hundred miles on a tune to realize its maximum potential.
You would really want to test this on separate days to get those additional miles.
Since you probably already know how your car has been running off your original ECU you should just go ahead and put the new one in and break it in. See if your times at the next track event break your best times from before and by how much. Just an idea IMO.

jrcart

John, your car is FAST! I was super impressed at MIR. Why don't you head down to Houston on Jan 24th for the track day I set up? Winter has set in in Chicago as I'm sure it has in your neck of the woods as well and I can't wait until spring to go 10's so I rented the track. I'm thinking about going road racing the following day, that would be two great days of racing and I'm sure we could find some time Saturday night to hit a club or something.

MHP

For me it would be 1 great day of racing and 1 day of rolling my car over in turns trying to keep up with you 2.

MACHC5

To Everyone following this thread,

I have chosen to maintain a neutral "Higher Ground" No Opinion, here on the Forum, until the ECU testing is completed.
And add to that fact, I'm also one of the most consistent ET drivers you'll ever meet on a drag strip will only add to the real numbers achieved.

But to say SORRY.., and start casting doubt on "Back to Back" ECU testing before learning of the results, says volumes to many on the Forum.

Andy, The testing may show great results for the MHP ECU tune...

So until then, let's stop all the Bench Racing and posturing on one side or the other until we all know what the results are...

Jim

Fr33kn63

Its regardless to whatever tune your testing your results will be skewed because neither or one will be broken in while the other isnt. But if you want to call that accurate testing, be my guest...
GL with your findings....

jrcart

I think what you are planning on doing is awesome, although slightly flawwed it should still show some pretty solid and convincing results one way or the other. There is no sure fire way of doing this that will be 100% accurate, this should be the most accurate attempt to date for a comparison like this. Let's be realistic, to get a good sampling of results we would need 3-4 cars running MHP tunes and 3-4 other cars (same make, model and mods) to be running in the same conditions on the same day with only 1 guy doing the driving. The fact that that will probably never be possible leaves us with what you are doing

MHP

Jim, in all honesty, records are not set by making 33 passes in one day. That may be how you drive your car but you're leaving .2 and 1.5-2mph in it by not letting it cool off. When ECTs go over 190F the ECU starts pulling timing, both stock and with our tuning, except with our tuning, more timing gets pulled since there's more base/advance in there anyway.

Quote:

But to say SORRY.., and start casting doubt on "Back to Back" ECU testing before learning of the results, says volumes to many on the Forum.

Yes it does. It says that I know what I'm talking about and others with our tune will tell you the same. In theory what you're trying to do is admirable, in reality it's a flawed test, end of story. Don't take my word for it, ask others and they will tell you the same.
I preach the same to all our customers including you many times, 30-40 hard miles in manual then the rest (up to 200 total) hard in sport. Do not test until then.
You simply can't swap ECUs at the track and see the true potential of either, again it's just a fact that cannot be denied.

Quote:

Andy, The testing may show great results for the MHP ECU tune...

Jim, your testing has already shown great results for our tune. You went from making a single 11.95@116 pass with 12.0-12.1s@114-115 back-ups in significantly better DA to running a string of 11.7s@120+ despite adding Nitto DRs (35psi?) which helped your 60' but hurt trap vs the stock tires.
This much rings true doing both the uncorrected and corrected math.
You ran at ATCO with N/A cars that also ran at MIR and were running .2 and 1-2mph slower than they had the week earlier in MD. Meaning you're within a tenth of a second and less than 1mph than the two quickest/fastest CLK 63 BSs with your mods plus a complete longtube to tailipe full exhaust, and they made less than 10 passes at the entire event... What exactly were you expecting?

Quote:

So until then, let's stop all the Bench Racing and posturing on one side or the other until we all know what the results are...

Jim

I hate to break this to you, but results have been and will continue to come in regardless of whether or not you attempt to complete the flawed test above. I don't mean this in a disrespectful manner but you posting said results would just result in more misinformation on this site, which we definitely don't need.
Nevertheless, do what you want.

At this point I'd like to offer you a refund in exchange for us taking you back to stock, you obviously aren't happy with your ECU/TCU gains, as such you can always run stock again or maybe try a PC tune? We have all the objective and accurate CLK BS 63 data we need at this point.


Thanks

MACHC5

Quote:
I hate to break this to you, but results have been and will continue to come in regardless of whether or not you attempt to complete the flawed test above. I don't mean this in a disrespectful manner but you posting said results would just result in more misinformation on this site, which we definitely don't need.
Nevertheless, do what you want.

At this point I'd like to offer you a refund in exchange for us taking you back to stock, you obviously aren't happy with your ECU/TCU gains, as such you can always run stock again or maybe try a PC tune? We have all the objective and accurate CLK BS 63 data we need at this point.


Thanks[/QUOTE]


Andy,

Let me mull over the generous offer to put me back to stock, with a full refund, as I'm out of town on business this week, and I'll get back to you...

Jim

MB_Forever

jrcart

I'm not really sure what is going on here and the last thing I want to do is get involved in a pissing contest with two forum members that I really like. Jim, my ability to read between the lines is pretty good, I am taking from all this that you are un-happy with your MHP tune, correct? What are you un-happy about? Your 11.7 e/t is pretty darn impressive for a car which is otherwise bone stock (at least to the best of my knowledge), over 2/10th's quicker than your previous best e/t you had posted if I'm not mistaken. 11.7 puts you 4th on the 63 list, and you have the fewest mods of any of us. I would be proud of that time, hell you even beat the CLS 63 that was running a 100 shot of NOS.

I hope you guys can work things out and come to an agreement.

juicee63

I agree , and was equally impressed with the trap speed.
Maybe we are all reading too much into this and James simply want's imperical data to further solidify the MHP tune results.

Andy has done the right thing by offering a full refund and stock flash, really no one loses here as the data will be at the very least interesting and likely help MHP after results are in. Seems like most MHP cars have done well but as with all tuning there will be unsatisfied customers etc..

So do we all agree the ECU needs to be "adapted" prior to use?

I know my ecu , seems stock although tuned needs retraining after the wife drives

Jim great post , and attitude.

After Saturday the 13th hopefully the "list" has some new elevens

MB_Forever

Very good post Jim, and I agree to everything you posted here. Jim's car is very impressive not only in ET and trap, but more specifically in it's consistency I wish my car would be as consistent as his. Everytime I run the car back to back, I lose 0.1 seconds in E.T. up to about 0.4 seconds then it stablizes. I think the average of his runs before were 12.0 while the average of his runs now are 11.7 However, his test would still be awesome to see...... it will show how much the ECU adaptations affect (or doesn't affect) the performance. It should also give a good idea on the difference between the two tunes.

jrcart

Hey Josh and Andy, take a look at this...another C63 running mid 11's



Josh, make sure you get this guy to send you timeslips. I think that makes 10 63's in the 11's now after you update the list with this weekends times?

https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...s-122-mph.html

MHP

Keith is a super nice guy, congrats to him for some great passes!

He's running a MKB ECU, filters, and headers and just removed his secondary cats prior to saturdays racing.

Hopefully he can make MIR in the spring.


Josh,

Keith and I were talking about our 1/8 mile traps. He seemed to be in the 93-94 range while I was in the 95-96 range despite some of his 1/4 traps going 120-122. I think the stock exhaust (specifically the 2 3/8" neckdown in the OEM exhaust manifolds and 4 cats) are playing a fairly significant role in choking my car in the backhalf.

juicee63

Amazing just amazing. pretty soon I wont even be on the flippin list, Rick wheres your slips brah

jrcart

...and they said 63's where slow

That is actually 11 63's with E/T's in the 11's if you count both my NOS and motor only pass.

jrcart

Josh, this is your damn list and you're not even in the top 10 or in the 11's yet...you better get going boy! Maybe I'll let you draft me at Famosa, would that count?

juicee63

yeah man Im not feeling so good now....Im gonna really need to step it up.

I guess if you drive my car to the 11's at least my car will be on the list !!

I am fairly certain I can reclaim the CLS crown at least with a few choice m o d s.


Man I need to update the list but I dont wanna knock my car that far down LOL

chiromikey

josh, you know i only way a buck fifty soaking wet so if you're close, i'll get you there!

rarfinancial

Josh, How are these #'s with stock tune..... and crap 60' 1.9/ all day

1/8 96.04
1/4 11.75@122.86
NOS RUN/Just the tip lots more left
Puts This CLS63 #2 on the NOS list

1/4 12.04@117.27 N/A
1/4 12.08@118.26 N/A
WITH STOCK ECU
SHOULD PUT US UP ON THE LIST

All these while hot lapping. Only cooled the car down twice all day at Famoso

juicee63

yep our cars were just dead off the line, mine also 1.9x 60fts. I think you trapped 118.6x on a run as well?? I thought I saw two of your slips in 118 range. Anyway take a pic and email the slips or scan em so I can get all the data updated .

Definately there is a few ticks left in the CLS.

even a 1.85 60 gets you in the 11's

MB_Forever

Correction, Lisa did

TTC6TTM

What type of tricks are you thinking about? The car is absolutely beautiful! You did an amazing job putting it together.

I saw the video and it looked like the ride height worked quite well since there was very little squat when you launched. I think that helped you run that record breaking time that you did.

How about running some NOS? HP/TQ in a bottle!

juicee63

MO, RICK, I need your best runs plastered on here so I can update my list.

Comon fellas,

plus Keith's run in his C63

MB_Forever

Josh, my run was so close to what I had before, so I don't think it's worth it to update my spot. Maybe next time, I can shave another 0.1 or so if DA is good and it doesn't rain.