MHP

Night Rick.

E55texas

Jesus christ was ****ing nailed to a cross for your sins and this is how you come off to other people? You will burn in hell for this

MHP

I wouldn't dare post without video proof.

Thanks!

MHP

We'll see if we can keep temps down with the fans and stat first, then take a look at the rest of the cooling system.
Honestly I drive the car hard (it's been 90F and humid lately) and the oil temps are the only thing that really concern me. I don't like seeing 230F+ so I see an oil cooler in the very near future. Coolant never gets above 215 with the stock fan settings/T-stat. Obviously room for improvement, hopefully with minor mods.

MHP

At least we agree on something.

MHP

Now you're making me laugh (in a good way).

E55texas

Can you ban me or maybe provide me with suggestion on how to get banned?

MHP

I'm sorry I don't have the power to do that. Maybe you could PM a moderator/admin?

MHP

On that note I'm out for tonight. See you gents tomorrow.

E55texas

I will most likely be banned in the morning so I wish everyone good luck and hope this guy is better than the piece of sh it he portrays on the web. I am tierd and sick of the internet, I am an addict though and seeking counseling. sorry to all I have offended over the past hour or so. This banning will bring me one step closer to curing my disease of internet addiction.
F U C K

MB Fanatic

Why are you still up at 3 or 4am posting. get some sleep dude. just shows that you rather spend the night arguing your point and that only mean you have nothing to show for it. as for me. i am off to the airport to fly my *** back home from india. see you folks in 24 hours.

jangy

Is that how it works. On what cars and what setup? What kind of bench? How do you dyno? Answer these little questions.


Where are you located and are you willing to meet half way?

jangy

Glad you are full for now. Like I said, Ya'll Come back now, ya hear?

stevebez

I'll take a pop ... more for my own education than anything else.

1)4v systems have a lighter total valve mass/load so are able to hit higher rpms. 2V systems have heavier valves and springs and drag and cannot rev as high. Air flow wise 4valves get better distribution but slower airflow. 2V are the opposite faster airflow but less volume and worse distribution. So 2v are good for low down torque but suck at top end power, 4v suck at low end torque but are good at top end power. So 4v are really suitable to variable valve timing to boost low end torque. Not much you can do with a 2v system re variable valve timing. 4V has cleaner burning too so better for emmissions etc..

2a) Pass, although it obviously has something to do with the tensile strength of the metal and how the two different process affect its strength. Interested to know WHY though.

2b) See 2a)

3) Limiting factor is heat. Eventually as you continue to increase boost the system produces too much heat. The heat gets round tripped into the induction system and eventually regardless of the fuel you get pre-ignition. Similar concept to a jet engine really, which is loosely the same principle of a turbo, except all the elements are seperate, and the air pump uses different mechanics. In a jet all you are concerned about is exhaust gas temps, albeit for different reasons; not for pre-ignition but for metal failure! The best thing for jet engines though is they operate at -50deg C most of the time so their relative efficiency is superb.

4) Few things limit power but the main thing is the inability to get more air into the cylinder fast enough. I know of two ways to get more power out of a N/A motor. One is to move the torque higher up the rev range without it dropping off. So this comes down to mass and tolerances. The bottom end can handle really big speeds but the valves train is normally the limiting factor when it comes to increasing rpms >10k. Getting a motor to spin faster is easier than maintaining the torque peak. Getting the torque to remain high at higher rpms comes down to valve train drag, timing, fuel, backpressure and overall reciprocating mass of the system. The only way you get more air into a N/A motor is to make it spin faster. The only way you get more power out of N/A is to get more air into it. So the limiting factor is atmospheric pressure - you cannot increase it, and the mechanical drag and inertia of the motors components. The second is timing advance before TDC. Fuel burns quite slowly so you need to ignite the fuel before TDC to get the most compression out of the power stroke. Obviously you can only advance so far until you actually ignite the fuel and compression occurs too far before TDC which wont help the motor one bit. Obviously higher octane fuel helps pre-ignition when the fuel ignites out of its own because of too high IAT's, cylinder temps and pressure, but again this helps only to a point, as the octane gets too high you then struggle to ignite it.

5) Dont know this model number - or the model number in my 55K, but I thought our trannies were 100% lockable at some rpm ? But I am guessing here.

MHP

I sleep 3-4 hrs a night if I'm lucky, certified insomniac. Good for productivity, bad since the internet is a 24/7 thing.

MHP

Check the C63 forum for independant test results (not by me either). Based on what we've seen so far it's legit.

MHP

Ahhh! Now I get it, you're the resident *** sniffer! Forget the mastiff, we have Jangy!


Oh, there will most definitely be ownage.

WTF= What the ****?

You still haven't taken a shot at any of my basic trivia questions know it all.

What if I'm only a ***** to you and LZH but treat everyone else like gold? Too utopian for you? You decide...

Say what? We have a 2006 CL65 tester, as I said earlier we've been reflashing for over twice as long as I've actually owned the C63.
"The reason nitrous isn't acknowledged is because it has been done and nothing but that" Care to try that again in English? First explain to me how you having a 2.3L twin screw supercharger and me not being able to run a single power adder is fair? Second, I could just as easily flip your statement around and say "superchargers have also been done" though I wouldn't because I don't have an extra chromosome.

Actually it's also prescribed to men that want to increase their sperm count. www.webmd is your friend. Kind of like nolvadex fighting cancer in women and acting to increase blood vessel flexibility in men.

I'll race anyone that wants to heads up, win or lose, I don't give a **** I do it because I love racing. What kind of rwhp are you making and what's your best ET/Trap to date? Too bad we live so far apart.

Fly out to MIR and I'll gladly toss you the keys to my car to make some passes. Then I'll make some.


Ok, not following again? The only question I can answer (because I don't know what you're asking in the rest) is the last one. I always dyno on the same dynojet 248 using SAE correction, 1:1 (5th gear), with smoothing set at 5 with hood closed and two large fans blowing at the front of the vehicle.

Columbus, OH. The only way I'll race you (for something other than fun) without nitrous (and again it's total BS that you can have a blower but I can't spray) is after my H/C/I package goes on, which is after CAIs/longtubes/exhaust. Not going to lie it's probably not all going to happen by November--especially if the first set of heads goes to someone else.

MHP

Not bad Steve.

MHP

2 valves fill via Ram Tuning or Intertia Filling. That's via single large/heavy valve with a stiff spring and a high lift, large duration cam. Advantage: as Steve said is low rpm filling, not much else.
4 valves fill via quick changes in valve lift via smaller duration/lift cams with more aggressive ramp angles (due to the lighter VT mass) bumping softer springs and lighter valves with massive valve/seat/valve curtain area, and at higher rpm reversion. Advantages: Although an optimally designed 2v version of a large bore (4.0"+) motor has the potential to make as much peak HP as an equally optimal 4v, the 4v wins by making more avg/hp and torque. This is due to the superior flow characteristics (velocity of a comparable 4v head is nearly double that of a 2v head as measured with velocity probes) of a 4v head allowing the use of less aggressive (peaky) cams--anything over .480" lift with a 4v isn't to fill, it's to increase ramp angle. Again because of this 4vs also have longer powerbands.

When it comes to steel, billet forgings are stronger than non billet forgings due to their aligned grain structure. Although I nor anyone I know has seen a 4340 H beam fail on it's own accord (ie not hydralock) let alone a billet I beam.

Forged in this case due to Ti being stronger with a non aligned grain structure. Regarding Al rods, oh yeah, they're definitely killer. The downside is 100 passes is a lot to make with them. They will crack first then stretch and cause PtV issues.

Assuming you have the fueling system and a bottom end that will handle the abuse, the head unit of the blower/turbo itself. Unlike in N/A apps, the top end doesn't dictate ultimate power production.

First and foremost the rpm limitations placed on the motor via synchronized manual or automatic transmission, meaning in short the driveline. Most performance motors can rev significantly higher safely, but the rest of the DT doesn't like it.
When it comes to the motor itself it's ultimately valve/seat size/area especially when it comes to a small bore motor. Ultimately when you think of a motor in terms of a house, the cylinder heads form the basement, and without a proper foundation the house won't be ****. Cylinder heads determine how much peak HP any motor can make N/A, the intake manifold (predominantely intake runner length (as Max said)), cams, and bottom end (larger shortblock will make power/torque peaks at a lower rpm given the same top end) merely determine how much of that potential is reached and at what rpm.

95%.

Zax63

I was about to take a stab at the 5 questions too, but then it occurred to me that it would not actually prove anything. If I don't know the answer to one of the questions (like the billet aluminum vs. forged), I could look it up on the internet, get a basic understanding in 5 mins, and have a thorough understanding in 30 minutes. But I never claimed to be an engine builder, so I don't know why I would take the time to answer the question, or what it would prove. It would be like me asking you to explain convexity in bonds; you could figure it out, but what does that prove? I assume that there are well over 100 members of this board that can answer those questions but just have not seen the point so have not answered them. In addition, if you have effectively banned any other vendor from posting into your thread, that's not really fair - none of the pros can answer your question without being called out for intruding on your thread. You should offer a pass to them to answer this question, otherwise all you are doing is claiming that you know more about engines than amateurs, something that I hope would be true! But I think the fundamental problem is brought out when you said something like (and I paraphrase) "If you think these motors are different, you have bought into a bunch of BS..." or something like that. Of course, all normal hodrodding tricks will work on any motor. I'd love to drop a hundo nitrous shot on my car, but I'm waiting to see the long term effects on the engines of the pioneers who have done it to theirs. The problem is that when you crack a block on a mustang 4.6 or throw a rod or blast the valves etc, parts are cheap. When you grenade a 6.2 benz motor, unless you have figured out how to sub in a ls7 motor, replacement parts are crazy expensive. It reminds me of that tuner who does the twin-turbo Lamborghini motors... awesome idea and he makes huge power, but if he gets a few catastrophic failures, he will end up bankrupt unless he has very deep pockets. I think that might have actually happened a few months back on these boards, someone chime in if my memory is correct... there was a guy tuning motors, made big claims, everyone liked him, until stuff started failing. I think heads on these motors cost more than a long block 4.6. And I agree, I'd love to see a tuner shootout, and if your stuff works, then maybe you will win. And if you prove gains combined with longevity of motor parts, you will garner lots of business here.

And, please don't take the time to explain convexity... you'll bore the s*** out of everyone.

Zax63

You are one crazy, offensive and funny dude.

jrcart

I threw down this idea a couple months ago when Renntech debuted their 63 Black Series. Bring it on! I'm in, I'll be repping the Evosport boys with my 63. Not to pat myself on my own back but nobody else need show up for this event becuase I have not seen any other tuners 63 that can even come somewhat close to the performance numbers of my car. I think I will see some good competition from the VRP Kenny Bell supercharged 63 if it ever gets completed. As for the Renntech contingent, he should not even waste his gas money to try to participate in this shootout, I have seen the dyno sheets on a couple of their 63's...what a joke!

juicee63

Great post

juicee63

Ricks 63 has Renntech parts. as well

jrcart

NEWS FLASH....RENNTECH IS NOT THE GODS YOU ALL THINK THEY ARE. Renntech has been "late to the party" on their last 3-4 projects. Look at their JOKE of an attemp at a 63 Black Series, they finally finished the car 5 months later than mine (they started 2 weeks after mine) and it makes over 40 less HP at the wheels....LOL! Real impressive Renntech.

Unlike some of you guys I put my money where my mouth is and I track my car on a very regular basis, both road courses and at the strip. You guys can sit here and doubt and bash Andy all you want but some of what he said spiked my curiosity enough for me to purchase both the Thermalnators and the TCU. NO OTHER TUNERS are even talking about offering a TCU upgrade for the 63's right now. For any of you that have any knowledge of the 63's you already know that the torque limiting part of the TCU is a royal pain in the a s s. If this TCU upgrade offers even half of what he claims it will it will be money well spent.

I fully intend on testing both items on my car and I will report back honest, un-biased feedback. If the stuff sucks, I'll take it off my car and let you all know it sucks, if the stuff works as promised you guys will be thanking me and rushing out to buy yours. You guys all know I'm a vocal and opinionated *****, I'm gonna speak my mind openly and honestly, so give me a week or so to get this stuff installed on my car and get it tested. Until then give this guy a break and wait for me to report back.