It's time!! VRP700 VS MHP. Tuner showdown at Sacto. 10/25/08
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,621
Likes: 55
From: Naperville, IL/Chicago
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
For what it's worth, I've seen motors let go on a dyno before. Dyno's are brutal on a car. Bottom line, if you are pushing the envelope of perfomance, trying to eek out every last ounce of HP there are obviously some risks involved. I am going to dyno test my car/new ECU/TCU tune next week, if someting if F'ed up it will let go just as easily on the dyno as it would on the track or street....but you guys already knew that, right????
If you play you gotta be ready to pay
If you play you gotta be ready to pay
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,175
Likes: 0
06 EuroElites E55
For what it's worth, I've seen motors let go on a dyno before. Dyno's are brutal on a car. Bottom line, if you are pushing the envelope of perfomance, trying to eek out every last ounce of HP there are obviously some risks involved. I am going to dyno test my car/new ECU/TCU tune next week, if someting if F'ed up it will let go just as easily on the dyno as it would on the track or street....but you guys already knew that, right????
If you play you gotta be ready to pay
If you play you gotta be ready to pay
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,621
Likes: 55
From: Naperville, IL/Chicago
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
Agreed, but by the time you see it on the computer screen and shut things down most of the damage is already done. It amazes me that the guys arguing back and forth in this thread don't realize that.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,175
Likes: 0
06 EuroElites E55
JIM you still comming down or what I have got to see how the two compare.
If we have to we will cover your whole damm car in ice to get a fair comp!
Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, NY
'04 Porsche 996TT X-50, '95 M3 Built & Blown
For what it's worth, I've seen motors let go on a dyno before. Dyno's are brutal on a car. Bottom line, if you are pushing the envelope of perfomance, trying to eek out every last ounce of HP there are obviously some risks involved. I am going to dyno test my car/new ECU/TCU tune next week, if someting if F'ed up it will let go just as easily on the dyno as it would on the track or street....but you guys already knew that, right????
If you play you gotta be ready to pay
If you play you gotta be ready to pay
How about setting the car up with a pair of wideband o2 sensors and then you would get REAL world AFR's instead of sniffing the exhaust pipe?
Just a suggestion.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,621
Likes: 55
From: Naperville, IL/Chicago
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
Ya wow I didnt realize that but then again I am not a tuner or a expert. Im just a dummy that likes to go fast.lol. I always thought you could shut it down instantly?
JIM you still comming down or what I have got to see how the two compare.
If we have to we will cover your whole damm car in ice to get a fair comp!
JIM you still comming down or what I have got to see how the two compare.
If we have to we will cover your whole damm car in ice to get a fair comp!
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 418
Likes: 1
08 MB
You hit the nail on the head Jim. It seems most people are so intrigued with dyno runs. They are definitely the second worst thing that puts excessive strain on engine parts(#1 being "drifting and doughnuts"(poor crank)).
How about setting the car up with a pair of wideband o2 sensors and then you would get REAL world AFR's instead of sniffing the exhaust pipe?
Just a suggestion.
How about setting the car up with a pair of wideband o2 sensors and then you would get REAL world AFR's instead of sniffing the exhaust pipe?
Just a suggestion.
Banned
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,587
Likes: 0
'09 C63 AMG
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)
Verdad Gallardo
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
Banned
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,587
Likes: 0
'09 C63 AMG
As a staff member try to remain objective, if that's possible.
Post your product, interact with the members and answer their questions. Just do me a favor before I close this thread and thats keep this discussion professional. The same goes for VRP as well.
I dont care how bad or good either of your tunes are. I have stated this before - the discussions have to remain civil and its a thankless task being a mod. The members and sponsors make up this board and play a critical role in how the board is perceived and actually operated.
Banned
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,587
Likes: 0
'09 C63 AMG
+1
Jim - Please listen to Victor. Do not take your car to the track until you have checked out the new tune in a controlled environment.
With this being a competition, there is a good chance that "extra" changes have been made to your maps. If your car was an out of the box setup, then I would say go ahead and go. VRP did wonders on your car and whatever they recommend is what you should do.
Just my .2
Jerry
Jim - Please listen to Victor. Do not take your car to the track until you have checked out the new tune in a controlled environment.
With this being a competition, there is a good chance that "extra" changes have been made to your maps. If your car was an out of the box setup, then I would say go ahead and go. VRP did wonders on your car and whatever they recommend is what you should do.
Just my .2
Jerry
Last edited by MHP; Oct 24, 2008 at 04:08 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,137
Likes: 4
From: California, USA
E63 P30, CL500 Sport
Jim (Jakpro), please make sure you go easy on the launch the first time around so you can get a feel for how slippery the track really is. The traction is just terrible, and by the way, the track surface of the right-lane is not even (but is still slightly more sticky).
Good luck, and please keep us updated. I look forward to reading your/Rocket's review.....
Good luck, and please keep us updated. I look forward to reading your/Rocket's review.....
Banned
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,587
Likes: 0
'09 C63 AMG
So what does that mean for me? Because I contract a company to do some work, now if they go and do something that you don't like it is directly tied to me and I am responsible for this????? I have no control or idea what anyone besides me does. I am responsible for my own actions, not someone elses. Understand?
Im not worrying about your tune Andy. I am worrying about my customer and his car and want to make sure he is ok. Telling him to go to a dyno and check his A/F is not out of line so please just drop it.
Ontop of that you encouraging him to go to the track and flog his car when he hasn't dyno'd it is plain irresponsible.
I personally have no problem if Jim runs your tune, my tune, or Company X tune. I want Jim to be happy with what he has and I want to see him enjoy his car. PERIOD.
Im not worrying about your tune Andy. I am worrying about my customer and his car and want to make sure he is ok. Telling him to go to a dyno and check his A/F is not out of line so please just drop it.
Ontop of that you encouraging him to go to the track and flog his car when he hasn't dyno'd it is plain irresponsible.
I personally have no problem if Jim runs your tune, my tune, or Company X tune. I want Jim to be happy with what he has and I want to see him enjoy his car. PERIOD.
You're overstepping your bounds Victor. You don't see me telling one of your customers to dyno test your tune before track testing. I'll worry about my tunes you worry about yours.
We know the A/Fs are safe so please stop insinuating that they may not be, and as pointed out by many others with knowledge, dynos have destroyed as many or more motors as tracks.
Finally, do you really think Jim hasn't beaten the **** out of his car since he got our tune in it? We tell all our customers (because we know where the A/Fs are and I'm not really sure why you don't) to beat on their cars for the first 30-40 miles to help the ECU/TCU learn more quickly. If it was lean, everyone and their mom would've heard about it already.
Last edited by MHP; Oct 24, 2008 at 04:07 PM.
Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, NY
'04 Porsche 996TT X-50, '95 M3 Built & Blown
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,155
Likes: 20
From: Southern, CA.
V12-Biturbo
Side note Q: did you get the Throttle blipping/Rev-Matching? w/MHP ECU
Sorry for the hype. Goes with my business I guess.
Okay, long story short. There aren't a lot of times that everything comes together for me to make it down and this weekend just fell into my lap. Really don't think it is going to happen Nov/Dec.
I issued the challenge to MHP a few weeks ago that I really didn't think he could top my VRP700 tune and Andy didn't seem too bothered by it and accepted the challenge.
I received the tune and the only big difference I can feel right now is the off the line pull of the MHP. It seems much more aggresive off the line yet up top both tunes seem about equal.
Victor and Vadim have both been scratching their heads as they both said the VRP tune nearly pulled the tires (or felt like it) down at sea level. Perhaps it is the tune acting weird up here at 4300ft.
Only one way to settle this for sure. Down to Sacto Raceway I go for the test n tune of both tunes Saturday 10//25/08 Noon to 4pm. (I have 2 ECUs)
Not really gonna be an honest and true test as once I make a run with one tune, the car will be piping hot but sure is gonna be fun.
We flipped a coin up here and the VRP tune will go first. I will be running a mix of 93 and Sunoco 104 and will drive each tune (long as Sacto allows me out) for about 30 miles or so to get it used to sea level and then we will just see what happens.
Lots of factors so it sure won't be a perfect comparison.
DA at noon will be around 900ft and then rises bout 300-500 ft each hour. Again car will be hot with each run but will try to cool the best I can.
Always the Sacto factor. It's drag car test day so please God let them have at least scraped the friggin track. If it's a skating rink, we're shot anyway.
Famoso is not running Sat and Infineon is out as well so is Sacto or nothing for me.
If anyone wants to come out and watch, I will see you there. Won't have anyone to work the vid so if you wanna volunteer, that would be great.
Not gonna set any records of course, but we finally will see what the VRP700 can do and of course FINALLY see what an MHP tune will do at the track on a 55.
Last minute so I understand if we can't get anyone out. I will post slips regardless. I can ask the locals standing there to work the cam, hopefully they don't walk off with it.
If the track is even half way decent, should be fun.
Jim
Okay, long story short. There aren't a lot of times that everything comes together for me to make it down and this weekend just fell into my lap. Really don't think it is going to happen Nov/Dec.
I issued the challenge to MHP a few weeks ago that I really didn't think he could top my VRP700 tune and Andy didn't seem too bothered by it and accepted the challenge.
I received the tune and the only big difference I can feel right now is the off the line pull of the MHP. It seems much more aggresive off the line yet up top both tunes seem about equal.
Victor and Vadim have both been scratching their heads as they both said the VRP tune nearly pulled the tires (or felt like it) down at sea level. Perhaps it is the tune acting weird up here at 4300ft.
Only one way to settle this for sure. Down to Sacto Raceway I go for the test n tune of both tunes Saturday 10//25/08 Noon to 4pm. (I have 2 ECUs)
Not really gonna be an honest and true test as once I make a run with one tune, the car will be piping hot but sure is gonna be fun.
We flipped a coin up here and the VRP tune will go first. I will be running a mix of 93 and Sunoco 104 and will drive each tune (long as Sacto allows me out) for about 30 miles or so to get it used to sea level and then we will just see what happens.
Lots of factors so it sure won't be a perfect comparison.
DA at noon will be around 900ft and then rises bout 300-500 ft each hour. Again car will be hot with each run but will try to cool the best I can.
Always the Sacto factor. It's drag car test day so please God let them have at least scraped the friggin track. If it's a skating rink, we're shot anyway.
Famoso is not running Sat and Infineon is out as well so is Sacto or nothing for me.
If anyone wants to come out and watch, I will see you there. Won't have anyone to work the vid so if you wanna volunteer, that would be great.
Not gonna set any records of course, but we finally will see what the VRP700 can do and of course FINALLY see what an MHP tune will do at the track on a 55.
Last minute so I understand if we can't get anyone out. I will post slips regardless. I can ask the locals standing there to work the cam, hopefully they don't walk off with it.
If the track is even half way decent, should be fun.
Jim
Administrator
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 12,263
Likes: 901
From: THE Orange County, California
2024 C8 Z06- 2025 BMW CS- 2022 Porsche 992 GTS
Yes sir. As a staff member try to remain objective, if that's possible.
I pay to sponsor this site, and will post as I see fit; as far as I can tell I have broken no rules and therefore there is no need for you to chime in at all. Again try to disseminate your role as a moderator and stick to objective moderating not putting your subjective 2 cents in.
The discussions are civil and you are correct this site is about it's membership and sponsors, not so much the staff--which should remain in the background unless they are needed.
As a staff member try to remain objective, if that's possible. I pay to sponsor this site, and will post as I see fit; as far as I can tell I have broken no rules and therefore there is no need for you to chime in at all. Again try to disseminate your role as a moderator and stick to objective moderating not putting your subjective 2 cents in.
The discussions are civil and you are correct this site is about it's membership and sponsors, not so much the staff--which should remain in the background unless they are needed.
Do me a favor and dont disrespect this forum with such threats... if you got a problem with people calling you out, handle it but dont make such comments here. You clearly attacked Victor for reasons personal. If you dont think so ask a layman to review what you typed.
I wasted 2 hours of my time cleaning up a thread for you that I didnt have to do and repopened it a month or so ago. I got a post from you thanking me and a PM. I have earned my respect here- you may be new but I am clearly am affording you such rights. Posting like this will get you nowhere with the mod staff or improve your credibility with the members.
Feel free to PM me if you have other concerns but leave this thread to what it was about. Oh I will interact as needed- you are not the decision maker here but I do respect what you are trying to do with your product. As you often use the word subjective, so will I in analyzing your rebuttals as to their professionalism.
Banned
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,587
Likes: 0
'09 C63 AMG
I wasted 2 hours of my time cleaning up a thread for you that I didnt have to do and repopened it a month or so ago. I got a post from you thanking me and a PM. I have earned my respect here- you may be new but I am clearly am affording you such rights. Posting like this will get you nowhere with the mod staff or improve your credibility with the members.
As for my credibility, I think it's doing just fine, no mod approval necessary.
Feel free to PM me if you have other concerns but leave this thread to what it was about. Oh I will interact as needed- you are not the decision maker here but I do respect what you are trying to do with your product. As you often use the word subjective, so will I in analyzing your rebuttals as to their professionalism.
Have a nice weekend.
Last edited by MHP; Oct 24, 2008 at 07:18 PM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
Banned
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,587
Likes: 0
'09 C63 AMG
Banned
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,587
Likes: 0
'09 C63 AMG
Banned
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,587
Likes: 0
'09 C63 AMG
as far as I can tell their only commonality is they want the absolute best.
