E63 Renntech vs MHP data
10-28-2008, 09:59 PM
#51
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,587
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'09 C63 AMG
A couple of things....I have been thinking about with regards to this comparison. First of all, does anyone know if all RENNtech tunes are the same? What I am getting at is MHP tailored the software to Jeff's exhaust and intake mods. I believe that Jeff got the RENNtech software before he did any mods (correct me if I am wrong). Would RENNtech have offered different software to match these mods? If so, wouldn't comparing the mod tailored software be a more fair apples to apples comparison. If not, MHP is the clear head to head winner in the dyno. I don't know the answer, can someone who has actual experience with RENNtech software answer this?
Second point: if you live by corrected 1/4 mile numbers...you should die....err I mean have to use them to compare runs. Jeff may very well trap 3-4mph higher just because it is -2500ft DA day at MIR. I think Jason brought the portable weather thing to MIR on Columbus day and it was showing 10 degrees warmer than reported on the dragtimes DA calculator. I think he said it was between 700ft and 1500ft that day. So we should factor that in when we do the runs to compare the two softwares' performance. Hey, I hope for Jeff's sake he picks up some huge numbers and it isn't all DA related.
Tom
Tom
10-28-2008, 10:01 PM
#52
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,587
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'09 C63 AMG
This has to be the worst money spent on any recent MB "tune".
What is really funny, is the references that they dont want to "blow" anything up as if this tune would even approach that feat.
Sorry, it had to be said. Buy an intake and some long headers and leave this alone.
Paul
What is really funny, is the references that they dont want to "blow" anything up as if this tune would even approach that feat.
Sorry, it had to be said. Buy an intake and some long headers and leave this alone.
Paul
64rwhp/30rwtq SAE 1:1 gains vs. stock for $2500-2750 or ~10-18rw if you're lucky with either headers/intakes.
10-28-2008, 10:02 PM
#53
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,587
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'09 C63 AMG
10-28-2008, 10:11 PM
#54
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,735
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
Great job Andy - very nice to see your "hunch" was correct. LOL !!!!
Thanks to Fr33kn63 for taking the time to post all the data from the dyno pull. Guess this pretty much puts an end to all those looking for "proven" results and "real world" data. I'm sure it'll only get better at MIR !!!!
Thanks to Fr33kn63 for taking the time to post all the data from the dyno pull. Guess this pretty much puts an end to all those looking for "proven" results and "real world" data. I'm sure it'll only get better at MIR !!!!
10-28-2008, 10:27 PM
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 286
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GT-R
I was expecting to see much higher numbers with the MHP tune based on all the chest-beating. However, I'm sure the relatively small increase in hp will translate into great track results given the TCU tuning. Can't wait to see the results from MIR. 
10-28-2008, 10:31 PM
#56
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E63 AMG
A couple of things....I have been thinking about with regards to this comparison. First of all, does anyone know if all RENNtech tunes are the same? What I am getting at is MHP tailored the software to Jeff's exhaust and intake mods. I believe that Jeff got the RENNtech software before he did any mods (correct me if I am wrong). Would RENNtech have offered different software to match these mods? If so, wouldn't comparing the mod tailored software be a more fair apples to apples comparison. If not, MHP is the clear head to head winner in the dyno. I don't know the answer, can someone who has actual experience with RENNtech software answer this?
Second point: if you live by corrected 1/4 mile numbers...you should die....err I mean have to use them to compare runs. Jeff may very well trap 3-4mph higher just because it is -2500ft DA day at MIR. I think Jason brought the portable weather thing to MIR on Columbus day and it was showing 10 degrees warmer than reported on the dragtimes DA calculator. I think he said it was between 700ft and 1500ft that day. So we should factor that in when we do the runs to compare the two softwares' performance. Hey, I hope for Jeff's sake he picks up some huge numbers and it isn't all DA related.
Tom
Second point: if you live by corrected 1/4 mile numbers...you should die....err I mean have to use them to compare runs. Jeff may very well trap 3-4mph higher just because it is -2500ft DA day at MIR. I think Jason brought the portable weather thing to MIR on Columbus day and it was showing 10 degrees warmer than reported on the dragtimes DA calculator. I think he said it was between 700ft and 1500ft that day. So we should factor that in when we do the runs to compare the two softwares' performance. Hey, I hope for Jeff's sake he picks up some huge numbers and it isn't all DA related.
Tom
10-28-2008, 10:40 PM
#59
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E63 AMG
yes as far as I can tell the E did not have much to benefit as the C class did regarding its tuning when you only look at peak numbers...arent we forgetting that peak number arent what necessarily dictates good times on the track. Look at the gains in the spreadsheet to see the gains over the renntech tune. 90%+ of the time the MHP tune is stronger the the previous tuning. Between that and the TCU i should see some better times once I hit the track.
dont forget the c class was more restricted stock to stock.
dont forget the c class was more restricted stock to stock.
10-28-2008, 10:54 PM
#61
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,662
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
STS,FGT,12C,P85D,M4
yea, that's what I was saying, and ROMEO550, just not that much of a gain for tuning the E63 from any tuner..... the mhp tune vs renntech is probably worth about .5 MPH, a difference that you could easily see from run to run with no changes at all....
the quicker shifting from a TCU tune might help a little as well....
the quicker shifting from a TCU tune might help a little as well....
yes as far as I can tell the E did not have much to benefit as the C class did regarding its tuning when you only look at peak numbers...arent we forgetting that peak number arent what necessarily dictates good times on the track. Look at the gains in the spreadsheet to see the gains over the renntech tune. 90%+ of the time the MHP tune is stronger the the previous tuning. Between that and the TCU i should see some better times once I hit the track.
dont forget the c class was more restricted stock to stock.
dont forget the c class was more restricted stock to stock.
10-28-2008, 11:08 PM
#62
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E63 AMG
yea, that's what I was saying, and ROMEO550, just not that much of a gain for tuning the E63 from any tuner..... the mhp tune vs renntech is probably worth about .5 MPH, a difference that you could easily see from run to run with no changes at all....
the quicker shifting from a TCU tune might help a little as well....
the quicker shifting from a TCU tune might help a little as well....
Umm im not one to start calling people out...but READ THE CHARTS, and dont twist my words around...under the curve there is as much as 12+hp and almost 15lbs tq at one point gains over the renntech tune and at 95% of the time there is positive numbers over the renntech tune. Peak HP yeah only saw about 5hp and 12tq over the renntech tune. But curve is more important then peak! Then yes TCU on top of it all which has nothing to do with dyno pulls
10-28-2008, 11:14 PM
#63
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,662
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
STS,FGT,12C,P85D,M4
I'm not twisting words, just being realistic.... average pickup is about 6HP... the race weight of your car is well over 4000 pounds.... let us know how it goes at the track...
Umm im not one to start calling people out...but READ THE CHARTS, and dont twist my words around...under the curve there is as much as 12+hp and almost 15lbs tq at one point gains over the renntech tune and at 95% of the time there is positive numbers over the renntech tune. Peak HP yeah only saw about 5hp and 12tq over the renntech tune. But curve is more important then peak! Then yes TCU on top of it all which has nothing to do with dyno pulls
10-28-2008, 11:21 PM
#65
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E63 AMG
my efforts in this werent to be an mhp cheerleader or anything of the sort other then to provided the best unbiased info I could.
As I have told others from the standpoint of if i was a stock 63 in the market to get a tuning done out of renntech or mhp who would I chose??? Until a few days ago i would have said renntech. but after getting mhps tune I would have to say I would go with his now. For the price of just the ecu its 1k less then the renntech and produces more power all over the place. And to top it off I can get tcu(which I did) which should provided some additional gains on the track. not sure how much, but should be somewhat noticable in my times.
that is all...
10-28-2008, 11:23 PM
#66
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E63 AMG
think you can have it installed for friday night test and tune? If so I can try. I was thinking the following friday 11/07 might give you some more time. But let me know. I should be game.
10-28-2008, 11:27 PM
#67
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,587
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'09 C63 AMG
10-28-2008, 11:28 PM
#68
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
2015 S212
No matter how many versions they have, i think they would have simply offered you a base one and only time will get them to "fix" it.
I'm on my 4th revision of the VRP 55K software now and each has been different.
10-28-2008, 11:33 PM
#69
Out Of Control!!
No way I can get in in time for friday. I dont get off of work til 5pm on friday. Test and tune this week is sunday at MIR. Friday test and tunes are done for the year at MIR. Capitol still has test and tunes on fridays. I guess i'll just keep you posted on how far I get. Theres only a few more weeks of racing left according to their schedules but they usually stay open until the first snow fall.
10-28-2008, 11:34 PM
#70
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
2015 S212
I still say any differences are statistically insignificant. Given differing environmental conditions a 5hp or 1% difference is just tough to justify. You wanna prove anything run a larger number of replicates (dyno runs).
BTW, comparing a 63 tune from summer of '07 to today is leading you astray. RennTech has made HUGE differences in their code since then. Does RennTech have an upgrade program? Powerchip does. If they do, consider getting a more competitive tune for the comparison.
BTW, comparing a 63 tune from summer of '07 to today is leading you astray. RennTech has made HUGE differences in their code since then. Does RennTech have an upgrade program? Powerchip does. If they do, consider getting a more competitive tune for the comparison.
10-28-2008, 11:36 PM
#72
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E63 AMG
No way I can get in in time for friday. I dont get off of work til 5pm on friday. Test and tune this week is sunday at MIR. Friday test and tunes are done for the year at MIR. Capitol still has test and tunes on fridays. I guess i'll just keep you posted on how far I get. Theres only a few more weeks of racing left according to their schedules but they usually stay open until the first snow fall.
10-28-2008, 11:37 PM
#73
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
2015 S212
to be perfectly honest with all of you. I got the renntech tune on my little C55, I think its great. But.... sometimes when i jump on it and the car kicks down into a lower gear then on to the next I get a delay like the car does not know what to do.
I have done a lot of bolt on mods and I dont know if the stock renntech tune is good still,??? or should i think about a new flash??? Maybe in my C55 there isnt much more to gain from an ECU than i already got.
I have done a lot of bolt on mods and I dont know if the stock renntech tune is good still,??? or should i think about a new flash??? Maybe in my C55 there isnt much more to gain from an ECU than i already got.
10-28-2008, 11:37 PM
#74
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,587
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'09 C63 AMG
BTW, comparing a 63 tune from summer of '07 to today is leading you astray. RennTech has made HUGE differences in their code since then. Does RennTech have an upgrade program? Powerchip does. If they do, consider getting a more competitive tune for the comparison.
