Performance mods without tune= worse than stock?
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Joined: Apr 2009
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From: Tacoma WA
Bicycle
Performance mods without tune= worse than stock?
So here the deal, I went to the track with my only mod being a rear trunk mount water tank and upgraded pump, I ran 3 pass's @ 112 and figured this as ok with the track conditions, It was 90 degrees outside at 300 feet above seal level. Ok since then I installed a 178 pulley, K&N filter, and 3 inch exh. deleted the 2nd cats and removed the res and put in high flow magnaflow mufflers. I go bck to the track and run 3 pass's at 112 this time it was 68 degrees outside, I did try and ice down my supercharger for an hour and it netted me a 115 mph trap speed. Plus I have raced a friend of mines e55 with before and after resuts being the same if not slightly worse. I've data logged the boost and there does not seem to be any real isues with belt slip?
Is it all cause of not having a tune? Am I wasting my money on future mods with out tuning the car?
Some other area of the car that I'm overlooking?
Is it all cause of not having a tune? Am I wasting my money on future mods with out tuning the car?
Some other area of the car that I'm overlooking?
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02 C32 AMG
i/c pump failure?
you should be fine without a tune.....you just wont see all the potential hp without it. your times should not have worsened unless the conditions were dramatically worse. like a skyhigh DA, high temps, and such.
you should be fine without a tune.....you just wont see all the potential hp without it. your times should not have worsened unless the conditions were dramatically worse. like a skyhigh DA, high temps, and such.
Thread Starter
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From: Tacoma WA
Bicycle
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 837
Likes: 1
From: Tacoma WA
Bicycle
Not trying to be a know it all but heres a good look at my AFR. I want to get a tune but I want to wait till some of the companys come out with a hand held tuner. I think its oing to be worth the wait. Going to be geat to be able to flash betwen a 92 and 100 octane map!
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From: Philly
997TT, C192 GT63, W464 G550, MS Plaid
i was in the same boat. i got all the things done and could not break into 11s until i got a tune. i did around 12 passes that day all 12.0-12.3 range trapping at 115-116. got a tune and went 11.8 the next time at the track then 11.71 with more rpactice then 11.66.
you car will feel faster from the gain in torque but it looses some top end without a tune.
you car will feel faster from the gain in torque but it looses some top end without a tune.
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From: NorCal
W211,E90,E66,E39,E38,NSX,Z32-TT
I drove my E55 for about 2-weeks before I got a tune after installation of the 180mm pulley. It drove like crap. However, after the tune my butt-dyno told me the car is a lot more powerful. Get a tune done and you'll be happy.
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From: Abu Dhabi
C218 CLS63TT PP Edition1, W213 E63S
i found that mine doesn't have a tune ><
i went back to the tuner and he always says it has a tune
i feel the car is better then before but not i big bang in preformance
who can do online tuning !!
i went back to the tuner and he always says it has a tune
i feel the car is better then before but not i big bang in preformance
who can do online tuning !!
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From: Houston
2003 W211 E55, 2003 W220 S600
no one does online tuning, but you can give some tuners a deposit and they will ship you a laptop with all the instructions on how to reflash the ecu and load their file onto your car.
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From: Salt Lake City (but not Morm)
2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
Just trying to get in your head for sec.
Wondering why you would spend all this time and money on mods and not get the ECU tuned?
Been on this forum for years and gotta say, I think that you have done the most mods I have ever seen without getting the ECU flashed.
Just found it interesting and was curious as to why?
Talked to many MANY tuners and they all seem to say the same thing, without telling the ECU to relax, it's seeing additional boost, other parameters etc, and trying to compensate for it (opening bypass under throttle body etc)
ECU next for sure bro.....you won't be sorry. In fact with all those mods, you are gonna be really pleased.
Wondering why you would spend all this time and money on mods and not get the ECU tuned?
Been on this forum for years and gotta say, I think that you have done the most mods I have ever seen without getting the ECU flashed.
Just found it interesting and was curious as to why?
Talked to many MANY tuners and they all seem to say the same thing, without telling the ECU to relax, it's seeing additional boost, other parameters etc, and trying to compensate for it (opening bypass under throttle body etc)
ECU next for sure bro.....you won't be sorry. In fact with all those mods, you are gonna be really pleased.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 574
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From: NorCal
W211,E90,E66,E39,E38,NSX,Z32-TT
Just trying to get in your head for sec.
Wondering why you would spend all this time and money on mods and not get the ECU tuned?
Been on this forum for years and gotta say, I think that you have done the most mods I have ever seen without getting the ECU flashed.
Just found it interesting and was curious as to why?
Talked to many MANY tuners and they all seem to say the same thing, without telling the ECU to relax, it's seeing additional boost, other parameters etc, and trying to compensate for it (opening bypass under throttle body etc)
ECU next for sure bro.....you won't be sorry. In fact with all those mods, you are gonna be really pleased.
Wondering why you would spend all this time and money on mods and not get the ECU tuned?
Been on this forum for years and gotta say, I think that you have done the most mods I have ever seen without getting the ECU flashed.
Just found it interesting and was curious as to why?
Talked to many MANY tuners and they all seem to say the same thing, without telling the ECU to relax, it's seeing additional boost, other parameters etc, and trying to compensate for it (opening bypass under throttle body etc)
ECU next for sure bro.....you won't be sorry. In fact with all those mods, you are gonna be really pleased.
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From: Latitude 26.1695, Longitude -80.0997
my wife wild, but she loves every minute of it.
So here the deal, I went to the track with my only mod being a rear trunk mount water tank and upgraded pump, I ran 3 pass's @ 112 and figured this as ok with the track conditions, It was 90 degrees outside at 300 feet above seal level. Ok since then I installed a 178 pulley, K&N filter, and 3 inch exh. deleted the 2nd cats and removed the res and put in high flow magnaflow mufflers. I go bck to the track and run 3 pass's at 112 this time it was 68 degrees outside, I did try and ice down my supercharger for an hour and it netted me a 115 mph trap speed. Plus I have raced a friend of mines e55 with before and after resuts being the same if not slightly worse. I've data logged the boost and there does not seem to be any real isues with belt slip? Is it all cause of not having a tune? Am I wasting my money on future mods with out tuning the car?
Some other area of the car that I'm overlooking?
Some other area of the car that I'm overlooking?
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Joined: May 2008
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2006 E55 AMG
, has headers, and air filters that ran extremely strong. He ran a 11.8xx at 118 mph with a 1.9xx 60' time. I believe he was running a 168mm pulley. With that said, I also don't understand why people would mod this far without a tune. If I couldn't do the package together, for whatever reasons I would definitely wait until time or money permitted me to. There's no doubt that a stage 1 package will give you the most bang for your buck. Plus this mod package will prolly give you the most gain over any other mod you'll add on after this, besides nitrous. From here it really starts getting expensive. JMO.
Edit: He has no tune...I initially put he had a tune and he doesn't.
Last edited by bassn_07; Aug 19, 2009 at 08:36 PM.
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From: London, UK
No longer stock '06 E55, A3 3.2 Quattro, GLE 400d, R107 280SL, Golf Polo
You have to do a tune... when I just had a pulley the car had more low end torque but I doubt it had more top end power.
After the tune the car's power felt more distributed over the revs ... not just bottom end.
You wont be sorry... get a reputable tune done... and preferably one that is customised to your cars mods and has your car on a dyno.
After the tune the car's power felt more distributed over the revs ... not just bottom end.
You wont be sorry... get a reputable tune done... and preferably one that is customised to your cars mods and has your car on a dyno.
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Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
I'm guessing that's why we should slowly add the mods, one at a time, and then the ECU remap to get it to conform to all the bolt-on mods
Last edited by 220S; Aug 19, 2009 at 06:27 PM.
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From: Southern Cali (Ontario)
I'm a walking testimony that 178mm pulley with NO tune is worst than stock.. specially at the higher Rpms.
The by pass valve just lets all the extra boost out and timing gets pulled.
Search for a my dyno review when I got my first LET tune and you will see that I gain close to 80 RWHP from the tune.
I dynod 380/390 and with tune I was hitting 470 RWHP.
I waited 1 year to tune my car, due to cost reasons and ease of install. Now that most tuners can flash your car with OBD2 and price is much cheaper, it should be easy a must mod.
Recently I got a reflash of a newer LET tune and man.. my car is very strong from 2k to redline. First time in a long time I can feel my car very healthy at all rpm levels.
For my C32, (it does NOT have a bypass valve, therefore tuning was optional. But once I got that tuned, the car performed even better)
The by pass valve just lets all the extra boost out and timing gets pulled.
Search for a my dyno review when I got my first LET tune and you will see that I gain close to 80 RWHP from the tune.
I dynod 380/390 and with tune I was hitting 470 RWHP.
I waited 1 year to tune my car, due to cost reasons and ease of install. Now that most tuners can flash your car with OBD2 and price is much cheaper, it should be easy a must mod.
Recently I got a reflash of a newer LET tune and man.. my car is very strong from 2k to redline. First time in a long time I can feel my car very healthy at all rpm levels.
For my C32, (it does NOT have a bypass valve, therefore tuning was optional. But once I got that tuned, the car performed even better)
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From: Chicago
2005 E55
If you've had your car at the dealer within past 2 years, the dealer may have flashed it with the 2006 air pump recall which added some TQ limiting software. The torque limiting software would pull timing, bleed boost, and dump fuel. Stock I was running 118mph traps. After a pulley and no tune I was running 110mph traps. You can read all about it here
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...-1-4-mile.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...-1-4-mile.html
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From: Southern Cali (Ontario)
If you've had your car at the dealer within past 2 years, the dealer may have flashed it with the 2006 air pump recall which added some TQ limiting software. The torque limiting software would pull timing, bleed boost, and dump fuel. Stock I was running 118mph traps. After a pulley and no tune I was running 110mph traps. You can read all about it here
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...-1-4-mile.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...-1-4-mile.html
I had the same issues.
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From: Latitude 26.1695, Longitude -80.0997
my wife wild, but she loves every minute of it.
Although in the real world, how can one ever know how one mod is necessarily affecting the other mod without a complex addition and subtraction game?
I'm guessing that's why we should slowly add the mods, one at a time, and then the ECU remap to get it to conform to all the bolt-on mods
I'm guessing that's why we should slowly add the mods, one at a time, and then the ECU remap to get it to conform to all the bolt-on mods
Exactly! If you change more than one thing at a time, it will be impossible to determine which change gave you the result.
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Joined: Apr 2009
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From: Tacoma WA
Bicycle
Thank you for all the input, Its good to know my results are not out of line. I agree that a tune is important, I just can't belive what they charge plus with the option of hand held tuners at half the price in the near future I still think I'll wait and see.
