MY ENGINE WENT KA BOOOOOOMMM !!!
03-21-2010, 01:48 AM
#326
Out Of Control!!
03-21-2010, 02:44 AM
#327
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mercedes-Benz AMG
Don't know anything about your car or your tune except a timing map with overly aggressive numbers on it. What are your Air Fuels? I can tell you that I would run 19-20 degrees max with a higher compression bottom end. When was the last time you had the motor apart, scoped it, compression tested it? I'm not saying everyone has a bad tune, I'm just commenting on what's posted.
03-21-2010, 04:28 AM
#328
MBWorld Fanatic!
[/QUOTE]Let's all reserve judgment until further evidence is revealed. Can a moderator/admin please explain why x SPY x's posts were deleted? Was he also banned? Thank you.
[/QUOTE]
I agree we should reserve judgment. However, I respect Loco 55's position that he believes its the tune. Again, if what he says is true, then I dare say a lot of us will be avoiding LET / EC. However, MBVert stepped in responding very strongly that its the tune based on his knowledge and his review of the situation. Ok, so what lead to that conclusion? What was the raw data or evidence? The fact that the car was fine before the tune?
I agree posts should not be deleted. That is not a good thing.
But, people have opined that it’s the tune or that it’s obvious it’s the tune. I am not a mechanic or tuner. However, I do want to know what the evidence is that shows it’s the tune and only the tune. The posted pics? Posted pics show detonation....ok, so what caused the detonation? MBVert says its the tune. Ok, so what data, proof shows it’s the tune that caused the engine to go down?
Last edited by jcjmw; 03-21-2010 at 05:02 AM.
03-21-2010, 04:35 AM
#329
MBWorld Fanatic!
Wow what a thread. 
Lots of very informative things and just as much BS.
I have a 05 E55. I had an LET tune performed 5 months ago. My car runs like a BEAST. I get about 8 Mpg. I AM A SATISFIED CUSTOMER.
We build billion dollar space shuttles that fly into outer space. Decades of research and development by the smartest guys on the planet, LITERALLY. The most expensive materials, latest technology, and of course, rocket fuel!
And the reality is that even though the resources used in the development of the space shuttle are EPIC in proportion to an E55 tune, we still manage to blow one up every couple of years.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, IS MY SH-T GONNA BLOW UP???
Loco, sorry to hear about your car. I will wish you a speedy recovery and look forward to seeing you bragging about drag times!
Lots of very informative things and just as much BS.
I have a 05 E55. I had an LET tune performed 5 months ago. My car runs like a BEAST. I get about 8 Mpg. I AM A SATISFIED CUSTOMER.
We build billion dollar space shuttles that fly into outer space. Decades of research and development by the smartest guys on the planet, LITERALLY. The most expensive materials, latest technology, and of course, rocket fuel!
And the reality is that even though the resources used in the development of the space shuttle are EPIC in proportion to an E55 tune, we still manage to blow one up every couple of years.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, IS MY SH-T GONNA BLOW UP???
Loco, sorry to hear about your car. I will wish you a speedy recovery and look forward to seeing you bragging about drag times!
03-21-2010, 04:38 AM
#331
MBWorld Fanatic!
Am I too assume that you came to that conclusion based on your review of the pics of the engine posted in this thread? Or, based on your personal review of the engine? I ask b/c would you not also need to review the ECU or the tune from the ECU to determine that its the tune that caused the improper A/F and Timing?
03-21-2010, 04:43 AM
#332
MBWorld Fanatic!
I agree the post should not be deleted. As for the deleted pics, I gather they show detonation. But, what caused the detonation? The tune, mechanical, what caused the detonation?
03-21-2010, 05:00 AM
#333
MBWorld Fanatic!
For those of you wanting a play by play look back to post #168.The crater in the cylinder is caused by the top ring welding itself to the cylinder when the the piston parks at tdc. When the piston starts to move down it tears the ring and some cylinder away. Cast pistons sometime break the top ring land. Now there is a path for super hot gas to burn away the cylinder and piston like a cutting torch.That's what happened plain and simple.
03-21-2010, 05:19 AM
#334
MBWorld Fanatic!
Would it not be prudent to know what Loco's tune provides as to AF, timing and etc. before saying its the tune that caused the detonation to the engine? You could end up being right if or when Loco posts the tune read out and then you can tell us what parts of the tune is the problem. But, to post that its the tune and only the tune that caused the engine without first reviewing the tune, that does not seem right.
03-21-2010, 09:15 AM
#335
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,949
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
jcjmw,
Your posts are both thoughtful and reasonable. It seems that you're viewing the ECU as a component (e.g. a single block in a wall, if the wall falls down, do we know it was THAT block?). Perhaps instead think of the ECU as the conductor of the orchestra, or the brain in your body telling everything what to do.
Of course, in the end, LOCO's failure was a mechanical one... in cases like these, they all are. Why was it THAT cylinder? Maybe it was slightly weaker than the others, maybe some other issue, who knows.
I mentioned earlier that we cannot yet conclude that the tune was definitively the cause - we may never know with enough certainty to please everyone, which is fine because people are entitled to their own opinions.
Logically, to me, it makes sense to suspect the tune - due to the markedly increased output post-tune, coupled with the drastically shortened longevity post-tune. As this was a custom-tune, one would expect each situation to be unique. Maybe the tuner had never tuned a car modified quite like LOCO's, maybe was having a bad day, maybe was rushed to get it all done - or maybe none of those things. Who knows? Sounds like we won't get any more from EC's side, which is a shame - but I understand their position.
Tuners who custom-tune previously tuned vehicles are in a tough spot. On one hand, they want to increase hp/tq to give some objective data to the client showing "hey, look what we got you with our tune" - on the other hand, what if they finish the pre-tune run, and observe that the tune is already pretty optimal, and revising it toward a more-aggressive nature is ill advised? Do they say "hey, your tune is good - here's your money back, minus the dyno time"? While that might be the most prudent course of action, I've never heard of it occurring.
Anyway, let's wait and see what additional information and/or data is given by LOCO or his mechanic, once they have it compiled. From there, we can better-form our opinions on the matter.
Your posts are both thoughtful and reasonable. It seems that you're viewing the ECU as a component (e.g. a single block in a wall, if the wall falls down, do we know it was THAT block?). Perhaps instead think of the ECU as the conductor of the orchestra, or the brain in your body telling everything what to do.
Of course, in the end, LOCO's failure was a mechanical one... in cases like these, they all are. Why was it THAT cylinder? Maybe it was slightly weaker than the others, maybe some other issue, who knows.
I mentioned earlier that we cannot yet conclude that the tune was definitively the cause - we may never know with enough certainty to please everyone, which is fine because people are entitled to their own opinions.
Logically, to me, it makes sense to suspect the tune - due to the markedly increased output post-tune, coupled with the drastically shortened longevity post-tune. As this was a custom-tune, one would expect each situation to be unique. Maybe the tuner had never tuned a car modified quite like LOCO's, maybe was having a bad day, maybe was rushed to get it all done - or maybe none of those things. Who knows? Sounds like we won't get any more from EC's side, which is a shame - but I understand their position.
Tuners who custom-tune previously tuned vehicles are in a tough spot. On one hand, they want to increase hp/tq to give some objective data to the client showing "hey, look what we got you with our tune" - on the other hand, what if they finish the pre-tune run, and observe that the tune is already pretty optimal, and revising it toward a more-aggressive nature is ill advised? Do they say "hey, your tune is good - here's your money back, minus the dyno time"? While that might be the most prudent course of action, I've never heard of it occurring.
Anyway, let's wait and see what additional information and/or data is given by LOCO or his mechanic, once they have it compiled. From there, we can better-form our opinions on the matter.
03-21-2010, 12:09 PM
#336
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 8,137
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes
on
17 Posts
Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
jcjmw,
Your posts are both thoughtful and reasonable. It seems that you're viewing the ECU as a component (e.g. a single block in a wall, if the wall falls down, do we know it was THAT block?). Perhaps instead think of the ECU as the conductor of the orchestra, or the brain in your body telling everything what to do.
Of course, in the end, LOCO's failure was a mechanical one... in cases like these, they all are. Why was it THAT cylinder? Maybe it was slightly weaker than the others, maybe some other issue, who knows.
I mentioned earlier that we cannot yet conclude that the tune was definitively the cause - we may never know with enough certainty to please everyone, which is fine because people are entitled to their own opinions.
Logically, to me, it makes sense to suspect the tune - due to the markedly increased output post-tune, coupled with the drastically shortened longevity post-tune. As this was a custom-tune, one would expect each situation to be unique. Maybe the tuner had never tuned a car modified quite like LOCO's, maybe was having a bad day, maybe was rushed to get it all done - or maybe none of those things. Who knows? Sounds like we won't get any more from EC's side, which is a shame - but I understand their position.
Tuners who custom-tune previously tuned vehicles are in a tough spot. On one hand, they want to increase hp/tq to give some objective data to the client showing "hey, look what we got you with our tune" - on the other hand, what if they finish the pre-tune run, and observe that the tune is already pretty optimal, and revising it toward a more-aggressive nature is ill advised? Do they say "hey, your tune is good - here's your money back, minus the dyno time"? While that might be the most prudent course of action, I've never heard of it occurring.
Anyway, let's wait and see what additional information and/or data is given by LOCO or his mechanic, once they have it compiled. From there, we can better-form our opinions on the matter.
Your posts are both thoughtful and reasonable. It seems that you're viewing the ECU as a component (e.g. a single block in a wall, if the wall falls down, do we know it was THAT block?). Perhaps instead think of the ECU as the conductor of the orchestra, or the brain in your body telling everything what to do.
Of course, in the end, LOCO's failure was a mechanical one... in cases like these, they all are. Why was it THAT cylinder? Maybe it was slightly weaker than the others, maybe some other issue, who knows.
I mentioned earlier that we cannot yet conclude that the tune was definitively the cause - we may never know with enough certainty to please everyone, which is fine because people are entitled to their own opinions.
Logically, to me, it makes sense to suspect the tune - due to the markedly increased output post-tune, coupled with the drastically shortened longevity post-tune. As this was a custom-tune, one would expect each situation to be unique. Maybe the tuner had never tuned a car modified quite like LOCO's, maybe was having a bad day, maybe was rushed to get it all done - or maybe none of those things. Who knows? Sounds like we won't get any more from EC's side, which is a shame - but I understand their position.
Tuners who custom-tune previously tuned vehicles are in a tough spot. On one hand, they want to increase hp/tq to give some objective data to the client showing "hey, look what we got you with our tune" - on the other hand, what if they finish the pre-tune run, and observe that the tune is already pretty optimal, and revising it toward a more-aggressive nature is ill advised? Do they say "hey, your tune is good - here's your money back, minus the dyno time"? While that might be the most prudent course of action, I've never heard of it occurring.
Anyway, let's wait and see what additional information and/or data is given by LOCO or his mechanic, once they have it compiled. From there, we can better-form our opinions on the matter.
My E500 had one of the World famous EuroElites (EvoTech) tunes on it. Before they strapped it down, Wayne told me that if they couldn't get any more from it, safely, I would only owe the shop for the dyno time.
Last edited by Benz-O-Rama; 03-21-2010 at 12:13 PM.
03-21-2010, 12:11 PM
#337
Super Member
Thread Starter
PLEASE post the evidence. I and, I dare say, others on this forum want to see the hard evidence, the raw data. No just words or opinions, but the actually data and evidence. You have posted pics of the engine. Can you also post pics of all the 16 plugs? How about the data from the LET / EC tune showing the improper timing advance? How about the data from the LET / EC tune showing the low or improper AF ratio? How about the data from Loco's ECU right before, during and right after the engine blew? If LET / EC did cause the damage to Loco's car, then I and possibly others on this forum will no doubt avoid them. That is a harsh result, especially in this economy, on a business. But, its what this forum is for, to share our experiences. I commend Loco for disclosing. It looks like you want to help him and have others believe that the engine blew due to a tune. Ok, show me the raw data, please. However, if a newbie comes out of nowhere, starts making attacking posts and calls his or her opinion facts, then I question it. With that said, please post your evidence, not your opinion, but the actual evidence and let the chips fall where they may.
You say that you do not have a dog in this fight, "so to speak." Either you do or you don't. If you would, please clarify.
Also, do you know the other two newbies that posted to this thread?
You say that you do not have a dog in this fight, "so to speak." Either you do or you don't. If you would, please clarify.
Also, do you know the other two newbies that posted to this thread?
It is obvious from the join date and the instant injection into this thread that MBvewrt is not credible and should not be taken serious. You are either someone directly related to Loco or have something to gain here. It doesnt take a genius to figure this out! LOL jcjmw, I wouldt even wast time arguing with this tool!
Wow what a thread.
Lots of very informative things and just as much BS.
I have a 05 E55. I had an LET tune performed 5 months ago. My car runs like a BEAST. I get about 8 Mpg. I AM A SATISFIED CUSTOMER.
We build billion dollar space shuttles that fly into outer space. Decades of research and development by the smartest guys on the planet, LITERALLY. The most expensive materials, latest technology, and of course, rocket fuel!
And the reality is that even though the resources used in the development of the space shuttle are EPIC in proportion to an E55 tune, we still manage to blow one up every couple of years.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, IS MY SH-T GONNA BLOW UP???
Loco, sorry to hear about your car. I will wish you a speedy recovery and look forward to seeing you bragging about drag times!
Lots of very informative things and just as much BS.
I have a 05 E55. I had an LET tune performed 5 months ago. My car runs like a BEAST. I get about 8 Mpg. I AM A SATISFIED CUSTOMER.
We build billion dollar space shuttles that fly into outer space. Decades of research and development by the smartest guys on the planet, LITERALLY. The most expensive materials, latest technology, and of course, rocket fuel!
And the reality is that even though the resources used in the development of the space shuttle are EPIC in proportion to an E55 tune, we still manage to blow one up every couple of years.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, IS MY SH-T GONNA BLOW UP???
Loco, sorry to hear about your car. I will wish you a speedy recovery and look forward to seeing you bragging about drag times!
jcjmw,
Your posts are both thoughtful and reasonable. It seems that you're viewing the ECU as a component (e.g. a single block in a wall, if the wall falls down, do we know it was THAT block?). Perhaps instead think of the ECU as the conductor of the orchestra, or the brain in your body telling everything what to do.
Of course, in the end, LOCO's failure was a mechanical one... in cases like these, they all are. Why was it THAT cylinder? Maybe it was slightly weaker than the others, maybe some other issue, who knows.
I mentioned earlier that we cannot yet conclude that the tune was definitively the cause - we may never know with enough certainty to please everyone, which is fine because people are entitled to their own opinions.
Logically, to me, it makes sense to suspect the tune - due to the markedly increased output post-tune, coupled with the drastically shortened longevity post-tune. As this was a custom-tune, one would expect each situation to be unique. Maybe the tuner had never tuned a car modified quite like LOCO's, maybe was having a bad day, maybe was rushed to get it all done - or maybe none of those things. Who knows? Sounds like we won't get any more from EC's side, which is a shame - but I understand their position.
Tuners who custom-tune previously tuned vehicles are in a tough spot. On one hand, they want to increase hp/tq to give some objective data to the client showing "hey, look what we got you with our tune" - on the other hand, what if they finish the pre-tune run, and observe that the tune is already pretty optimal, and revising it toward a more-aggressive nature is ill advised? Do they say "hey, your tune is good - here's your money back, minus the dyno time"? While that might be the most prudent course of action, I've never heard of it occurring.
Anyway, let's wait and see what additional information and/or data is given by LOCO or his mechanic, once they have it compiled. From there, we can better-form our opinions on the matter.
Your posts are both thoughtful and reasonable. It seems that you're viewing the ECU as a component (e.g. a single block in a wall, if the wall falls down, do we know it was THAT block?). Perhaps instead think of the ECU as the conductor of the orchestra, or the brain in your body telling everything what to do.
Of course, in the end, LOCO's failure was a mechanical one... in cases like these, they all are. Why was it THAT cylinder? Maybe it was slightly weaker than the others, maybe some other issue, who knows.
I mentioned earlier that we cannot yet conclude that the tune was definitively the cause - we may never know with enough certainty to please everyone, which is fine because people are entitled to their own opinions.
Logically, to me, it makes sense to suspect the tune - due to the markedly increased output post-tune, coupled with the drastically shortened longevity post-tune. As this was a custom-tune, one would expect each situation to be unique. Maybe the tuner had never tuned a car modified quite like LOCO's, maybe was having a bad day, maybe was rushed to get it all done - or maybe none of those things. Who knows? Sounds like we won't get any more from EC's side, which is a shame - but I understand their position.
Tuners who custom-tune previously tuned vehicles are in a tough spot. On one hand, they want to increase hp/tq to give some objective data to the client showing "hey, look what we got you with our tune" - on the other hand, what if they finish the pre-tune run, and observe that the tune is already pretty optimal, and revising it toward a more-aggressive nature is ill advised? Do they say "hey, your tune is good - here's your money back, minus the dyno time"? While that might be the most prudent course of action, I've never heard of it occurring.
Anyway, let's wait and see what additional information and/or data is given by LOCO or his mechanic, once they have it compiled. From there, we can better-form our opinions on the matter.
I understand that there is still some info missing here that you guys are still asking for so you can go and make your decision on whether believing it was caused by the tune or not, We do have all 16 plugs someone has asked for and will have the files pulled...
Just so all of you know it is not cheap to disassemble an engine..FYI it has cost me around $2,000 just in towing the car from shop to shop and the taking apart of the motor just to show some pictures when my main focus is to get her running again.
I am pretty sure EUROCHARGED has my TTM tune and EUROCHARGED tables just like they posted for "BLACK BENZ"
It would be very helpful for EUROCHARGED and the MB world community if they post these here so that you guys can go on with your lives just like i did...I mean we have not seen anything but their opinion on the matter and no facts!
03-21-2010, 01:34 PM
#338
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,949
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
Not trying to be argumentative, and obviously EC isn't running a charity - I would expect them to do everything possible to gain a new client and earn their fees.
03-21-2010, 03:24 PM
#339
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mercedes-Benz AMG
Would it not be prudent to know what Loco's tune provides as to AF, timing and etc. before saying its the tune that caused the detonation to the engine? You could end up being right if or when Loco posts the tune read out and then you can tell us what parts of the tune is the problem. But, to post that its the tune and only the tune that caused the engine without first reviewing the tune, that does not seem right.
03-21-2010, 03:27 PM
#340
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mercedes-Benz AMG
Ok just to be clear this is not the engine in questions file but another "let stage 2 tune"?Someone please confirm this file was for a supercharged vehicle? That's more timing than I run in over 90% of the naturally aspirated engines I tune. That can't be right.
03-21-2010, 03:38 PM
#341
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mercedes-Benz AMG
Shock, Amazement, not sure what else to say. I've never seen a forced induction tune with that much timing, A/Fs are not even close to where they should be either. You are 100% sure this is a 2004 E55 file? Loco please have similar maps posted for your ECU file asap. This is incredible.
03-21-2010, 03:40 PM
#342
Super Member
Thread Starter
Shock, Amazement, not sure what else to say. I've never seen a forced induction tune with that much timing, A/Fs are not even close to where they should be either. You are 100% sure this is a 2004 E55 file? Loco please have similar maps posted for your ECU file asap. This is incredible.
Are you trying to get us banned?
03-21-2010, 03:44 PM
#344
Super Member
Thread Starter
Shock, Amazement, not sure what else to say. I've never seen a forced induction tune with that much timing, A/Fs are not even close to where they should be either. You are 100% sure this is a 2004 E55 file? Loco please have similar maps posted for your ECU file asap. This is incredible.
MVERT can you explain what this means or how it is read..
03-21-2010, 03:46 PM
#345
Super Member
Thread Starter
Shock, Amazement, not sure what else to say. I've never seen a forced induction tune with that much timing, A/Fs are not even close to where they should be either. You are 100% sure this is a 2004 E55 file? Loco please have similar maps posted for your ECU file asap. This is incredible.
well simply because my mechanic and his partner were banned and they dont know why!!!
x spy x posts deleted then kicked out!! way to help the community MBWORLD!!!
03-21-2010, 03:49 PM
#346
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: merryland
Posts: 1,603
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
cornfed gtr and m3
Not sure how Vinny got those charts, but they are from the file that was on my car. Yes, it is a 2004 e55. My car was originally tuned last year at a LET/Eurocharged tune day in the Bay Area. I was recently scheduled to get a retune at the Eurocharged tune day back here in VA, but was unable to make it. So, I took the car to tuner closer to home as I still wanted a custom tune, and this is what was found.
Last edited by 930chas; 03-21-2010 at 03:54 PM.
03-21-2010, 04:00 PM
#349
Super Member
Thread Starter
03-21-2010, 04:02 PM
#350
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: merryland
Posts: 1,603
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
cornfed gtr and m3
I did not send them nor did EC. I know I pesonally sent them to a few members whose opinions I trust on this matter, because again, I am no expert on this stuff, and they might have forwarded them as well.
Last edited by 930chas; 03-21-2010 at 04:07 PM.
