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Ok. Never posted something negative about Mercedes ownership. That is about to change. About 3 weeks ago, I took my E63 into West Covina Penske Mercedes and they gave my E63 a full B service and wheel refinishing.
After 381 miles ( according to West Covina Penske Mercedes ), I heard and felt a noise from the rear of my E63. As it turns out, out of the 5 lug nuts holding my rear left wheel to my car, one lug nut was missing and 2 lug nuts was so loose it can be turn by the tech right in my face.
Me and my family could of being seriously injured from this. Now they are denying any responsibility.
Backing up. I have had my Vossen wheels for 2 years, first being put on my now gone 2011 E350 and now on my E63 ( 6 months ) Never had a issue where the lug nuts coming loose and once Penske Mercedes touch my wheels, this happens.
Ok. Never posted something negative about Mercedes ownership. That is about to change. About 3 weeks ago, I took my E63 into West Covina Penske Mercedes and they gave my E63 a full B service and wheel refinishing.
After 381 miles ( according to West Covina Penske Mercedes ), I heard and felt a noise from the rear of my E63. As it turns out, out of the 5 lug nuts holding my rear left wheel to my car, one lug nut was missing and 2 lug nuts was so loose it can be turn by the tech right in my face.
Me and my family could of being seriously injured from this. Now they are denying any responsibility.
Backing up. I have had my Vossen wheels for 2 years, first being put on my now gone 2011 E350 and now on my E63 ( 6 months ) Never had a issue where the lug nuts coming loose and once Penske Mercedes touch my wheels, this happens.
Aftermarket wheels, stock lugs.....you won't get far with a suit thats for sure.
But scary! Glad you are safe!!!
Mine used to snap off on my E55 until I got longer aftermarket lugs
Yeah, very glad you're family is okay, but it's going to be real easy for the dealership to defend themselves. You had no damages, you're using non-stock wheels and you have a highly tuned engine that puts a _lot_ more stress on the lugs than it was originally designed for.
you noted 3 out of 5 lugs. We're the other tight? If so, the wheel wasn't going to come off immediately.
I've been a mechanic for years, mistakes happen. I don't know how many times I have taken a torque wrench into the parking lot just to double check my work.
Thanks for your input guys. Glad nothing serious happened, but here is why I am ****:
1: This dealer refinished 3 out of the 4 after market wheels 381 miles before this happened.
2: During their visual inspection, they said the hub, brake and spring might be damaged.
3: They said the torqued all 4 wheels to 96 pound and yet only after 381 miles, 1 lug is missing and 2 is completely loose.
4: They have now refused to fix my E63 and have said they will no longer be servicing my Mercedes at their dealership. They even refuse to tighten all the lug nuts and asked me to take my car back as is.
I have already spoke to my company's legal counsel and will proceed with negligent.
Last edited by Davidkuo0330; Apr 4, 2016 at 12:09 PM.
I can't say if remaining 2 lugs was tight, but I was unable to loosen it with my fingers. Was it tighten to spec., I do not know.
With the HP/TQ the E63 puts down and 381 miles with missing and loose lugs. I only imagine maybe I could of gotten 50 miles before I got hurt driving the E63.
Originally Posted by boostorbust
you noted 3 out of 5 lugs. We're the other tight? If so, the wheel wasn't going to come off immediately.
I've been a mechanic for years, mistakes happen. I don't know how many times I have taken a torque wrench into the parking lot just to double check my work.
Last edited by Davidkuo0330; Apr 4, 2016 at 12:11 PM.
Had the aftermarket wheels for 2 years and never had to tighten it after it was installed or new tires put on them. The lug nuts are aftermarket lug nuts that came with the spacers.
My problem is, the dealers said it tighten it to spec. If that was the case, how it would of came loose after only 381 miles. The lugs never snap and the dealer now refuse to service my Mercedes as if it was my fault the lugs came loose even though the dealer was the last person that touched my wheels.
Glad nothing serious happens, but visual inspection. There seems to be damage to the hub, brake and spring.
Originally Posted by kponti
Aftermarket wheels, stock lugs.....you won't get far with a suit thats for sure.
But scary! Glad you are safe!!!
Mine used to snap off on my E55 until I got longer aftermarket lugs
FF. W212 E63 M156 non-pano 18" P2 ParkT NightV (gone but will be missed).
Being an overly paranoid person, I usually don't trust the tire guys' ability in torquing thing down correctly. It's almost always either over- or under-torque. I always bring my own torque wrench and loosen and re-torque each bolt in the parking lot before driving off.
Gosh, I can understand your frustration. I can just see steams coming out of all orifices of my head if I were you.
Porsche Taycan, Range Rover AB, Range Rover SVR, S Class, Mclaren 570s, Urus Hybrid (soon), M3, RS6
I'm no AMG owner, but I've had Vossen CVTs for over 6,000 miles now(not many compared to others) and never had any such issues, and I dont think I've torqued the wheels recently either.
I highly doubt there was any damage done to the hub from this. I have driven cars with 3 lugs WAYY further and had zero damage. You're going a little overboard with a lawsuit. There was no injury or "real" damage to sue for. Like the posts mentioned above, you can't sue for "almost" getting hurt. Cut your losses, move on and double check your lugs
FYI a lot of after market wheels use a different taper on the lug nuts. Not saying this applies to you, but something everyone should be careful about.
IMO, the dealer would have fared better to have apologized profusely without admitting responsibility, offered to replace the lug bolts with new ones, and offered a free oil change and car wash with all the coffee one can drink.
I would conjecture several possible causes and one of them is the dealer's torque wrench is out of calibration and under-torqued or over-torqued the lug bolts. It is possible your lug nuts were over-torqued and stretched beyond elasticity previously and elsewhere (your garage or another service center). Correlation is not causation but one works to keep satisfied customers. IMO, it seems West Covina Penske Mercedes has no problem keeping customers, satisfied or unsatisfied, therefore they do not care about how you feel.
You can prove nothing and the dealer has plausible deniability (exactly as I would claim if it occurred if we worked on your car at my house). I'm not trying to be difficult; just playing "Devil's Advocate".
Either way, IMO, poor customer relations on the part of the dealer and now their name will come up with every internet search inquiring about West Covina Penske Mercedes customer satisfaction. You can always try writing to the regional director; I doubt it will do any good but, if a sufficient number of customer complaints occur compared to other dealerships in the area, action may be taken to correct future disputes if it runs the risk of reducing profit margin.
Sue? Don't waste your time. Move on to a trusted independent and be sure to recommend and hand out business cards for that trusted independent to every Mercedes owner you meet.
Last edited by bbirdwell; Apr 4, 2016 at 11:36 PM.
Re-tighten to spec after 20 miles of driving. Glad there was no injury.
This, One million times over.
I volunteer at a shop and we tell every single customer to come back in 40km/couple weeks of driving to have their wheels retorqued.
I had Heritage Valley Mercedes Benz replace a tire (nail through sidewall) and amongst other things, they did not torque the wheels correctly. 3 were over torqued severely (someone hit it with a big impact) and 2 were not tight at all. I don't think the tech even thought of using a torque wrench. They Suck.
I voted with my wallet, gave them a very poor review on google maps, complained to MB Canada, and refuse to have them service my car in the future. Also I will not purchase any further Benz's from them, and I quite loudly tell everyone to not do business with them.
I think the dealership could have handled your situation better.
Update. To add salt to injury. The service director wrote me an email today asking me to remove my E63 from the service department before the end of this Wednesday ( April 6 ) or I will be charged $100 per day for storage. Also he suggested to have my E63 towed to a shop where it can tighten the lug nuts because it is unsafe to drive and they refuse to work on my car anymore.
Weather you support or oppose to this Mercedes dealer's actions, weather you live in or out of SoCal. May I ask you all to write to the service director a email expressing how you feel as a Mercedes owner.
This is the email address:
pcarreon at socalpenske.com
Phillip Carreon ( Service Director )
Please mentioned my car: 2012 White E63, Owner, David Kuo
Many thanks guys for taking the time.
To say I'm pis. is an understatement because even though nothing happened, I just can't get it over my head if my family and I was on the freeway at freeway speed and that wheel was to fall off......
havent u praised that dealership to high heaven before, posting paperwork of all the hookups and discounts you get....unfortunately i guess they did a half *** job this time around
you should check the size of your lugs based on the offset of those wheels compared to stock...granted u have no issues for the E350, but the e63 has a different track size
plus dont u have 1000 AMS hp going to your rear wheels....that in it self would do damage to a set of cast aftermarket wheels...good luck with the lawsuit
Also he suggested to have my E63 towed to a shop where it can tighten the lug nuts because it is unsafe to drive and they refuse to work on my car anymore.
This is sounding extremely unreasonable...
Did you threaten to sue them before they re-torqued the wheel?
I can't think of anyone, even a dealership, who would look at a wheel with loose lugnuts and have their first reaction be "I'm not going to help out even a little bit" without some reason.
Can't you just take a torque wrench, fix the 2 bolts and drive out of there?
If your relationship with the dealer has become bad enough for them to send you that email, I don't think I'd want them to touch my car. Not saying they'd do anything intentionally, but if there's a bad apple there along with the ill will that seems to present, you could have more problems.
Last edited by CliffJumper; Apr 5, 2016 at 01:08 AM.
I suggest you read the important part of members posts. Most members just say glad me and my family were not hurt and you could of choose to say nothing at all, but you choose to comment as seen below.
I don't know why you are on this forum for so long without saying anything positive. Did you grow up in a abusive family or where did all this hate come from?
Again I've had my aftermarket wheels in question for 2 years. Never had so much as a loose lug nut, but this dealer refinished my wheels and this happens that could of killed me and or my family after only 381 miles and according to you. I should now thank them for all their pass service?
You must be a wonderful son, husband and father.
Originally Posted by vdubpower
havent u praised that dealership to high heaven before, posting paperwork of all the hookups and discounts you get....unfortunately i guess they did a half *** job this time around
you should check the size of your lugs based on the offset of those wheels compared to stock...granted u have no issues for the E350, but the e63 has a different track size
plus dont u have 1000 AMS hp going to your rear wheels....that in it self would do damage to a set of cast aftermarket wheels...good luck with the lawsuit
Last edited by Davidkuo0330; Apr 5, 2016 at 11:31 AM.
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