Oil pump solenoids
Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 90
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From: Rocklin, CA
'14 CLS550 , '86 420SEL
I am gonna volunteer to say: be patient and do leave your tranny alone!
Concentrate on shaping up the engine so ECU can gains fine throttle control. That's will transform tranny work to near perfect.
What sucks buckets about powertrain... :
Sloppy slippery:
Given enough slippery long shifts the fancy "gas saving" thin blue ATF gets heated up ultra thin. Controlling clutch pressure becomes increasingly challenging.
Normal shifts happen seemlessly where gearbox keeps engine Rpm in the zone for it to run well.
Normal gearbox shifts keeps engine running around 2000Rpm with great ability to rev up. It can readily hang on to 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears as needed.
Shifts can easily be delayed by throttle pressure to Rev up engine much higher.
Throttle doesn't need to be floored to redline. It can easily control consistent shifts at 2500, 3000, 4000 ... awesome driveability control by accelerator pedal.
This precise throttle is made possible by self-adapted matching fuel maps. Chaos makes Rpm control uneasy to challenge tranny.
If you recognize your tranny is struggling, take it easy with your high-power shifts. Deal with engine conditions.
Concentrate on shaping up the engine so ECU can gains fine throttle control. That's will transform tranny work to near perfect.
What sucks buckets about powertrain... :
- the wrong gear choice: 5th gear at 20mph
- the shift timings: delays bangs gears up/down
- the sloppy shifts: slipery clutch instead of instantaneous
Sloppy slippery:
Given enough slippery long shifts the fancy "gas saving" thin blue ATF gets heated up ultra thin. Controlling clutch pressure becomes increasingly challenging.
Normal shifts happen seemlessly where gearbox keeps engine Rpm in the zone for it to run well.
Normal gearbox shifts keeps engine running around 2000Rpm with great ability to rev up. It can readily hang on to 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears as needed.
Shifts can easily be delayed by throttle pressure to Rev up engine much higher.
Throttle doesn't need to be floored to redline. It can easily control consistent shifts at 2500, 3000, 4000 ... awesome driveability control by accelerator pedal.
This precise throttle is made possible by self-adapted matching fuel maps. Chaos makes Rpm control uneasy to challenge tranny.
If you recognize your tranny is struggling, take it easy with your high-power shifts. Deal with engine conditions.
I plan on just letting everything adapt to the changes and enjoying the setup right now as it keeps improving. No more futzing around until next oil change. I rarely hit 3.5-4K rpm as it is so I will focus on the next shiny object instead....wheels & tires
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Joined: Apr 2019
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From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
CHEAP TRANSFORMATIVE FIX
So when do we start a new thread about ATF fluid...?
I plan on just letting everything adapt to the changes and enjoying the setup right now as it keeps improving. No more futzing around until next oil change. I rarely hit 3.5-4K rpm as it is so I will focus on the next shiny object instead....wheels & tires
I plan on just letting everything adapt to the changes and enjoying the setup right now as it keeps improving. No more futzing around until next oil change. I rarely hit 3.5-4K rpm as it is so I will focus on the next shiny object instead....wheels & tires
replace UPSTREAM Lambda.
That's will put a smile on your face after only 10Miles.
These 2x sensors drive your engine fuel map.
They get plugged up with zinc and gallons of burnt oil residues (**)
Good swap time: 70kMi (or between 60 and 90).
Leave all "downstreams" alone is fine.
++++ additives included:
**: Ceratec does not burn up, right?
I wonder what's the experience of Ceratec owners replacing fresh Lambda...
Carbon burns well with oxygen but zinc and ceramics coatings are used specifically because they lubricate and can not burn.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Apr 25, 2025 at 06:36 PM.
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 3,496
From: Maryland
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
I love them! Only wish I could see transmission temperature. I am not sure my model has a sensor but I will investigate. UPDATE: looks like I need to convert the entire cluster to an AMG cluster in order to see the Transmission Temps, currently I just have an additional menu.
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04 E55 AMG (totaled), 07 S550 4Matic, 14 E63S
I think every single car has a transmission temp sensor;
On the torque limit thing, I agree, these are holding back serious power in lower gears and it is really annoying to have an AWD car that doesn't use the traction it has. But they did this because of transmission output shaft strength reasons and when you see the gains on paper (0.2s in the 1/4 mile), maybe it's not worth it...
On the torque limit thing, I agree, these are holding back serious power in lower gears and it is really annoying to have an AWD car that doesn't use the traction it has. But they did this because of transmission output shaft strength reasons and when you see the gains on paper (0.2s in the 1/4 mile), maybe it's not worth it...
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 3,496
From: Maryland
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
I think every single car has a transmission temp sensor;
On the torque limit thing, I agree, these are holding back serious power in lower gears and it is really annoying to have an AWD car that doesn't use the traction it has. But they did this because of transmission output shaft strength reasons and when you see the gains on paper (0.2s in the 1/4 mile), maybe it's not worth it...
On the torque limit thing, I agree, these are holding back serious power in lower gears and it is really annoying to have an AWD car that doesn't use the traction it has. But they did this because of transmission output shaft strength reasons and when you see the gains on paper (0.2s in the 1/4 mile), maybe it's not worth it...
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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04 E55 AMG (totaled), 07 S550 4Matic, 14 E63S
There are plenty of threads on this forum showing data logs on the M157 platform where it will very briefly hit 100% throttle and then will close it down to limit torque. I don't think these cars get sustained full throttle until 3rd or even 4th gear.
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2022
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2014 E550 4Matic
The throttle shouldn’t be at 100% during WOT. The ECU uses a torque-based model, not pedal position, target boost or other metrics.
Once the target torque is achieved, the throttle closes to the point where the desired torque is maintained.
When the air charge is cooler and denser, the throttle will open less for a given torque request than on a hot humid day, which requires a wider throttle opening to achieve the airmass required for the same torque request.
Once the target torque is achieved, the throttle closes to the point where the desired torque is maintained.
When the air charge is cooler and denser, the throttle will open less for a given torque request than on a hot humid day, which requires a wider throttle opening to achieve the airmass required for the same torque request.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 512
Likes: 86
From: Bulgaria
C43 AMG '17 / Stage II
If you like a lot of bangs for your bucks:
replace UPSTREAM Lambda.
That's will put a smile on your face after only 10Miles.
These 2x sensors drive your engine fuel map.
They get plugged up with zinc and gallons of burnt oil residues (**)
Good swap time: 70kMi (or between 60 and 90).
Leave all "downstreams" alone is fine.
++++ additives included:
**: Ceratec does not burn up, right?
I wonder what's the experience of Ceratec owners replacing fresh Lambda...
Carbon burns well with oxygen but zinc and ceramics coatings are used specifically because they lubricate and can not burn.
replace UPSTREAM Lambda.
That's will put a smile on your face after only 10Miles.
These 2x sensors drive your engine fuel map.
They get plugged up with zinc and gallons of burnt oil residues (**)
Good swap time: 70kMi (or between 60 and 90).
Leave all "downstreams" alone is fine.
++++ additives included:
**: Ceratec does not burn up, right?
I wonder what's the experience of Ceratec owners replacing fresh Lambda...
Carbon burns well with oxygen but zinc and ceramics coatings are used specifically because they lubricate and can not burn.
Last edited by KristiyanPetrov; Apr 28, 2025 at 09:29 AM.
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 7,847
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From: Maryland
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Oh, wait! You're already catless.
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Joined: Apr 2019
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From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
ESSENTIAL SENSOR FEEDBACK
This is how engine gets firm precise throttle response vs. spongy lean pedal.
The whole driveability map is continuous linear from idle Rpm. It's the same 2000.Rpm control in Hwy 7th gear than driving of the red light in 1st gear. It's good/bad uniformly all around.
> UPSTREAM IS KEY!!
-- The ECU uses Lambda feedback to dial the fuel mixture in normal driving mode (non-WOT law).
-- The fuel maps record a lean penalty when fuel is misfired. This is a vicious cycle because lean mixtures are hard to fire creates misfire > causes lean > causes misfire... we avoid being forced into lean penalties.
Stock ECU is programmed to run clean combustions. It's up to us to max out every stroke with accurate matching control.
> What is an accurate setup:
-- stable spark voltage (ALT-LIN)
-- stable spark timing (sealed rings)
-- stable fuel delivery (HPFP)
-- stable VVT positionings (5w50)
-- stable CAN-C bandwidth (solderless chaos)
-- stable lambda feedback (~70kMi!)
= matched POWERFUL mixtures:
All of this transformation rest upon exact timings with microsecond accuracy. Bosch ECU is a state of the art ticking clock with dozens of controls.
My mods help provide tight stable relationships.
Hunt looseness to gain improvements.
> DOWNSTREAM... WHATEVER!
Downstream post-cat. oxygen sensors are measuring cat efficiency, not directly fuel combustion. Not having cats calls for custom-tuned ECU to disregard missing data without penalty. No point in replacing downstreams then...
> Getting lean penalty:
When pistons TDC is not accurately predictable in microseconds, then spark and fuel timings are loosely controlled not on fixed schedule.
That causes poor combustion misfire.
Feedback is recorded by Lambda sensor as a call for more lean fuel maps.
This mismatch yields laggy driveability. The ECU is unable to deliver what the engine needs. Engine runs poorly but clean!
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Apr 28, 2025 at 03:43 PM.
Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 90
Likes: 40
From: Rocklin, CA
'14 CLS550 , '86 420SEL
sent my xentry scan to the tuner to close a loop and of course the P-codes of the oil pump solenoid raised some alarms. I feel like their response is not in relation to the solenoid, or am I mistaken:
'Modifying the oil pump is a waste as well because there is a mechanical pressure relief valve that just bleeds off oil pressure when the control solenoid is not functional.'
'Modifying the oil pump is a waste as well because there is a mechanical pressure relief valve that just bleeds off oil pressure when the control solenoid is not functional.'
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From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
track vs. street
sent my xentry scan to the tuner to close a loop and of course the P-codes of the oil pump solenoid raised some alarms.
I feel like their response is not in relation to the solenoid, or am I mistaken:
'Modifying the oil pump is a waste as well because there is a mechanical pressure relief valve that just bleeds off oil pressure when the control solenoid is not functional.
'
I feel like their response is not in relation to the solenoid, or am I mistaken:
'Modifying the oil pump is a waste as well because there is a mechanical pressure relief valve that just bleeds off oil pressure when the control solenoid is not functional.
'
Your custom tuned ECU is now running an enhanced oiling setup unlike stock + tune.
There are two different applications here:
Race track WOT vs. street linear driveability.
The WOT ECU-TCU interactions are totally different as mentioned by Bill description of throttle controlled by torque instead of fuel trims.
So mind what Rpm operations you want tuned : weekend track racing OR every day street driving.
Our max oil pump max pressure is a mild 60Psi to "save gas". Gear pumps used to run 90psi.
-- With MOD-1 oil pressure increases smoothly towards relief pressure thats based on Rpm + viscosity + temperature.
-- Pressure regulator opens somewhere between 2500 and 3500.Rpm
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Apr 28, 2025 at 04:22 PM.
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 3,496
From: Maryland
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
sent my xentry scan to the tuner to close a loop and of course the P-codes of the oil pump solenoid raised some alarms. I feel like their response is not in relation to the solenoid, or am I mistaken:
'Modifying the oil pump is a waste as well because there is a mechanical pressure relief valve that just bleeds off oil pressure when the control solenoid is not functional.'
'Modifying the oil pump is a waste as well because there is a mechanical pressure relief valve that just bleeds off oil pressure when the control solenoid is not functional.'
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 512
Likes: 86
From: Bulgaria
C43 AMG '17 / Stage II
NOT related to oil mod
when you start doing engine oil change do you first remove oil cap to drain the oil and only then remove the plug to drain the sump do you notice 7L of oil isnt enough on the dipstick? also first start of the car can you hear the rattling kind tensioners because they're dry? (i've changed them 6k km ago) and this happen only when i changed the oil
when you start doing engine oil change do you first remove oil cap to drain the oil and only then remove the plug to drain the sump do you notice 7L of oil isnt enough on the dipstick? also first start of the car can you hear the rattling kind tensioners because they're dry? (i've changed them 6k km ago) and this happen only when i changed the oil
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Joined: Apr 2019
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From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
OIL CHANGE + RATTLING...
NOT related to oil mod
when you start doing engine oil change do you first remove oil cap to drain the oil and only then remove the plug to drain the sump do you notice 7L of oil isnt enough on the dipstick?
also first start of the car can you hear the rattling kind tensioners because they're dry?
(i've changed them 6k km ago) and this happen only when i changed the oil
when you start doing engine oil change do you first remove oil cap to drain the oil and only then remove the plug to drain the sump do you notice 7L of oil isnt enough on the dipstick?
also first start of the car can you hear the rattling kind tensioners because they're dry?
(i've changed them 6k km ago) and this happen only when i changed the oil
> Oil fill of 7L is not enough...
-- MB uses a "correction factor" to calculate the ampunt of oil each engine should get based on it options.
-- You can refill the oil according to that data or bring it up to the dipstick level you're comfortable with.
For my application I aim for middle of fill zone.
> Tensioner rattling after oil change...
-- Thats unusual, at least that only happens after oil + filter change!!
(FYI: My engine on 5w50 doesn't rattle even with 5kMi oil).
-- What's your engine total mileage??
Since your tensioners a really new, then it's more like Bank2 Intake VVT gear doing preliminary hello.
The next question should be...
> Does Solenoid MOD help/hurt VVT lock-pin?
-- Results suggest oil pressure prevents overworking the lock pins on/off/on/off with marginal pressure.
-- However MOD-2:5w40 idle pressure is extremely similar to stock MOD-0.
-- Only greater viscosity helps build pressure with idle limited pump volume.
@crconsulting has studied our VVT oil pressure management valve and oil pump.
He shows a screen filter is in use.
Dirty engines can plug up that screen with calcium sludge.
-- You can diagnose condition using positioning data with a scanner.
-- ECU can compensate for chain stretch and screen plugged when given enough pressure to work with.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Apr 29, 2025 at 12:51 PM.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 512
Likes: 86
From: Bulgaria
C43 AMG '17 / Stage II
> Oil fill of 7L is not enough...
-- MB uses a "correction factor" to calculate the ampunt of oil each engine should get based on it options.
-- You can refill the oil according to that data or bring it up to the dipstick level you're comfortable with.
For my application I aim for middle of fill zone.
> Tensioner rattling after oil change...
-- Thats unusual, at least that only happens after oil + filter change!!
(FYI: My engine on 5w50 doesn't rattle even with 5kMi oil).
-- What's your engine total mileage??
Since your tensioners a really new, then it's more like Bank2 Intake VVT gear doing preliminary hello.
The next question should be...
> Does MOD help/hurt VVT lock-pin?
-- Results suggest oil pressure prevents overworking the lock pins on/off/on/off with marginal pressure.
-- However MOD-1 idle pressure is extremely similar to stock MOD-0.
-- Only greater viscosity helps build pressure with idle limited pump volume.
-- MB uses a "correction factor" to calculate the ampunt of oil each engine should get based on it options.
-- You can refill the oil according to that data or bring it up to the dipstick level you're comfortable with.
For my application I aim for middle of fill zone.
> Tensioner rattling after oil change...
-- Thats unusual, at least that only happens after oil + filter change!!
(FYI: My engine on 5w50 doesn't rattle even with 5kMi oil).
-- What's your engine total mileage??
Since your tensioners a really new, then it's more like Bank2 Intake VVT gear doing preliminary hello.
The next question should be...
> Does MOD help/hurt VVT lock-pin?
-- Results suggest oil pressure prevents overworking the lock pins on/off/on/off with marginal pressure.
-- However MOD-1 idle pressure is extremely similar to stock MOD-0.
-- Only greater viscosity helps build pressure with idle limited pump volume.
it was quick kind of rattle i was thinking because theres no oil since i remove the oil filter first and then i remove the plug from sump to get rid off old oil
engine is 131k km and yes it happen only 1st start after new oil was put in
i try to keep engine in rpms (2k at least most of the times) for lubricating
Last edited by KristiyanPetrov; Apr 29, 2025 at 12:56 PM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 11,923
Likes: 6,776
From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
first 3-4 sec from this video this is how it kinda sounded like https://youtu.be/lwgVLBwnxS8?si=kGH0crJ3l3ZBcB1e
it was quick kind of rattle i was thinking because theres no oil since i remove the oil filter first and then i remove the plug from sump to get rid off old oil
engine is 131k km and yes it happen only 1st start after new oil was put in
i try to keep engine in rpms (2k at least most of the times) for lubricating
it was quick kind of rattle i was thinking because theres no oil since i remove the oil filter first and then i remove the plug from sump to get rid off old oil
engine is 131k km and yes it happen only 1st start after new oil was put in
i try to keep engine in rpms (2k at least most of the times) for lubricating
you can conclude the pump pick up tube was filled with air.
Liquid pumps are not great priming with air !!
At your early mileage, O-Ring seals in the oil pump pickup tube should not be letting in any air.
Keep up oberservations for service needs.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Apr 29, 2025 at 01:31 PM.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 512
Likes: 86
From: Bulgaria
C43 AMG '17 / Stage II
later on will go to make cold start video and will PM you
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Apr 2019
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From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
Pump needs to prime up and flush air out at every start . That's exactly why cold engine Rpm stays higher until CPS proves VVT can be positioned.
What I hear in your start up video sounds like a rod knock, not camshaft related. The difference is frequency.... my ear could be off.
Do you know compression of Cyl. 5 + 6 ?
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Apr 29, 2025 at 06:25 PM.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 512
Likes: 86
From: Bulgaria
C43 AMG '17 / Stage II
I dont think there's a check valve to hold oil in pick up line during engine off or oil service.
Pump needs to prime up and flush air out at every start . That's exactly why cold engine Rpm stays higher until CPS proves VVT can be positioned.
What I hear in your start up video sounds like a rod knock, not camshaft related. The difference is frequency.... my ear could be off.
Do you know compression of Cyl. 5 + 6 ?
Pump needs to prime up and flush air out at every start . That's exactly why cold engine Rpm stays higher until CPS proves VVT can be positioned.
What I hear in your start up video sounds like a rod knock, not camshaft related. The difference is frequency.... my ear could be off.
Do you know compression of Cyl. 5 + 6 ?
no idea what is the compression
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Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 11,923
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From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
HIGHLY STRESSED BEARINGS
Have a look at your old oil filter for "forbidden glitter" evidence. The floaters are non-magnetic metals.
What you should do is decide on your next step.
-- Drop pan for bearing renewal if cylinder compressions are still nearly equals.
-- or keep redlining fun engine while it last.
In other words this freeplay is not expect to fix itself or just get better with Italian tune-up.
This is a use case where non "MB Approved" 5w50 viscosity could hurt more than help!
-- It will help quiet knock with pressure.
-- It will hurt by hiding active issue that may damage a cylinder furthest away (1+5+6) from tranny load.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Apr 29, 2025 at 07:33 PM.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 512
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From: Bulgaria
C43 AMG '17 / Stage II
Knock gets more quiet with oil pressure but when rod bearing is over tolerance it lowers pressure from the supply conduit.
Have a look at your old oil filter for "forbidden glitter" evidence. The floaters are non-magnetic metals.
What you should do is decide on your next step.
-- Drop pan for bearing renewal if cylinder compressions are still nearly equals.
-- or keep redlining fun engine while it last.
In other words this freeplay is not expect to fix itself or just get better with Italian tune-up.
This is a use case where non "MB Approved" 5w50 viscosity could hurt more than help!
-- It will help quiet knock with pressure.
-- It will hurt by hiding active issue that may damage a cylinder furthest away (1+5+6) from tranny load.
Have a look at your old oil filter for "forbidden glitter" evidence. The floaters are non-magnetic metals.
What you should do is decide on your next step.
-- Drop pan for bearing renewal if cylinder compressions are still nearly equals.
-- or keep redlining fun engine while it last.
In other words this freeplay is not expect to fix itself or just get better with Italian tune-up.
This is a use case where non "MB Approved" 5w50 viscosity could hurt more than help!
-- It will help quiet knock with pressure.
-- It will hurt by hiding active issue that may damage a cylinder furthest away (1+5+6) from tranny load.
this sound is doing only on cold start, this morning i start it again and it did it for 2-3 sec and then gone then i tried to start it after 3h that sound is missing
for context here is the video
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Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 11,923
Likes: 6,776
From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
UNEVEN ENGINE
in old oil filter wasn't anything that you shouldn't see
this sound is doing only on cold start, this morning i start it again and it did it for 2-3 sec and then gone then i tried to start it after 3h that sound is missing
for context here is the video https://youtube.com/shorts/Q89d_y2eo...6ipa44pwggUjUY
this sound is doing only on cold start, this morning i start it again and it did it for 2-3 sec and then gone then i tried to start it after 3h that sound is missing
for context here is the video https://youtube.com/shorts/Q89d_y2eo...6ipa44pwggUjUY
Decide if you want more oil or less oil?
Hopefully it's not a loose connecting rod bearing.
Good thing you report no oil filter shavings.
M276 has been coined as undestructible.
HPFP loose roller is eligible for knocking on camshaft.
Combined with your known high blow-by, a knock calls for a compression check.
This being a V6: #4;5 may be found lower.
> EVEN CYL vs. UNEVEN...
-- This is a good case for why evenly balanced cylinders are the base for predictable timings.
-- When pistons groups travel at uneven speeds, they are impossible to individually time at higher speed under load conditions.
> High vibrations is the marker to go easy with high stress... else few cylinders put out all the work.
> From Day-1!
Brand new stock engines setup already run unbalanced straight from factory.
With all cylinders running equally, the team is vibration free with neutral trims and much more power available right from low Rpm.
Attention to setup details yields predictably strong driveability.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Apr 30, 2025 at 02:15 PM.
Thread Starter
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04 E55 AMG (totaled), 07 S550 4Matic, 14 E63S
Didn't something similar just afflict the new Toyota turbo V6?
I don't understand the cam/crank correlation code thing.
Obviously I like his point that running thicker oil doesn't automatically damage the engine. We've been through this in detail.
These thin oils are for fuel economy and so is the stupid oil pump solenoid.
I don't understand the cam/crank correlation code thing.
Obviously I like his point that running thicker oil doesn't automatically damage the engine. We've been through this in detail.
These thin oils are for fuel economy and so is the stupid oil pump solenoid.
Last edited by kevm14; May 3, 2025 at 08:23 PM.
