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If you look at this list, the SL 63 does not use a factory oil pressure sensor. How many unplug + CEL cars do we have in this thread? Are all the CEL's coming from cars with factory oil pressure sensors?
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
In the thread below, I tried to find anywhere in XENTRY Simulation for an S63 where oil pressure is monitored or configurable. (XENTRY Simulation lets you enter values for monitored parameters to see the effect.). I was examining only the ECU (N3/10) module. There was nowhere where I could see an expected oil pressure value. The only possible correlation was to self-adjusting cam positions, but again, nowhere to enter pressure values.
My SL63 did not throw a CEL. It has also been regularly maintained by MB so I’d assume it’s had “some” software updates throughout its life.
Might just be an S63 thing.
it may be.
There is at least some confirmation bias surrounding the m274 technical bulletin to "ok to ignore" the code in so much as "it's safe to do so in m157" as well.
again, I am in the unplug camp, no worries, don't want to offend anyone with my comments.
why would Benz force a CEL on some m157 models in software updates (if that is indeed true)? Curious.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Originally Posted by PeterUbers
...why would Benz force a CEL on some m157 models in software updates (if that is indeed true)? Curious.
If what I am thinking is true, the oil pressure sensor feeds into the self-adjusting cam positions for the AMG M157. Remember, the S63 is an AMG car with an AMG version of the M157, so we can expect some differences. Can you swap an AMG ECU with a non-AMG ECU (security issues aside)?
The question then becomes, what makes the S63 different, because clearly it is?
If what I am thinking is true, the oil pressure sensor feeds into the self-adjusting cam positions for the AMG M157. Remember, the S63 is an AMG car with an AMG version of the M157, so we can expect some differences. Can you swap an AMG ECU with a non-AMG ECU (security issues aside)?
The question then becomes, what makes the S63 different, because clearly it is?
S63 makes 664 lb/ft of torque compared to the E63 590 lb/ft. It is the highest factory state of tune for the M157.
The SL 63 non performance pack version makes 590 while the PP version makes 664.
There is at least some confirmation bias surrounding the m274 technical bulletin to "ok to ignore" the code in so much as "it's safe to do so in m157" as well.
It's not just confirmation bias. The WIS info on how the valve works and why is applicable to all engines. So, the way it works in the M274 is the same as the M157 or M278 or M276, etc.
Still, I don't know why the S63 has a sensor or why it throws a CEL for unplugging. The sensor value isn't even exposed in Xentry, which is even dumber.
If what I am thinking is true, the oil pressure sensor feeds into the self-adjusting cam positions for the AMG M157. Remember, the S63 is an AMG car with an AMG version of the M157, so we can expect some differences. Can you swap an AMG ECU with a non-AMG ECU (security issues aside)?
The question then becomes, what makes the S63 different, because clearly it is?
I see, thanks for this. What do you mean an amg version of the m157 - I'm not familiar- please explain
so you're thinking there is a mechanical update/difference of the s63 m157 that requires dual pressure system to function properly
Again, however, on the M276 engine, the wiring harness attaches to the internal wire to the solenoid through the block on the front of the engine to the right side of the crank pulley.
There is no documentation to say that in the M157, or special versions of the M157, the operation of the valve is any different from the rest. And again, the oil pump in all M157s is the M278 pump.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Originally Posted by PeterUbers
I see, thanks for this. What do you mean an amg version of the m157 - I'm not familiar- please explain
so you're thinking there is a mechanical update/difference of the s63 m157 that requires dual pressure system to function properly
Not necessarily a physical difference, buy rather a tuning difference, which may require oil pressure readings to affect some other control. Back in the day, there was a tuner for VW/Audi that used cat temps to affect other controls, such as timing, boost, fueling, etc. The same may be true her. Apparently there are two versions of the M157, the performance pack vs. non-performance pack.
There is no documentation to say that in the M157, or special versions of the M157, the operation of the valve is any different from the rest. And again, the oil pump in all M157s is the M278 pump.
Saw this Tasos video just appear in my youtube feed today... discussion on the M157 Oil Pump solenoid (unplug or not) which is very interesting. Guy knows every detail about this motor....
Not necessarily a physical difference, buy rather a tuning difference, which may require oil pressure readings to affect some other control. Back in the day, there was a tuner for VW/Audi that used cat temps to affect other controls, such as timing, boost, fueling, etc. The same may be true her. Apparently there are two versions of the M157, the performance pack vs. non-performance pack.
There are 6 states of tune for M157. Engine is only used in AMG models.
There are 6 states of tune for M157. Engine is only used in AMG models.
Several MB vehicles had the M157 motor and slightly different power output which ChatGPT summarized here but may not be slightly off
As of my last knowledge update in January 2022, the Mercedes M157 engine, which is a twin-turbocharged 5.5-liter V8 engine, has been featured in various high-performance AMG models. Here are some of the vehicles that have been known to be equipped with the M157 engine:
Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG (W212):
Standard Version: Around 518 horsepower and 516 lb-ft of torque.
E63 AMG S Version: Approximately 577 horsepower and 590 lb-ft of torque.
Mercedes-Benz CLS63 AMG (C218):
Standard Version: Around 518 horsepower and 516 lb-ft of torque.
CLS63 AMG S Version: Approximately 577 horsepower and 590 lb-ft of torque.
Mercedes-Benz ML63 AMG (W166):
Around 518 horsepower and 516 lb-ft of torque.
Mercedes-Benz S63 AMG (W221):
Standard Version: Around 518 horsepower and 516 lb-ft of torque.
S63 AMG S Version: Approximately 577 horsepower and 664 lb-ft of torque.
Mercedes-Benz G63 AMG (W463):
Approximately 536 horsepower and 561 lb-ft of torque.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Originally Posted by jvakos
Several MB vehicles had the M157 motor and slightly different power output which ChatGPT summarized here but may not be slightly off
As of my last knowledge update in January 2022, the Mercedes M157 engine, which is a twin-turbocharged 5.5-liter V8 engine, has been featured in various high-performance AMG models. Here are some of the vehicles that have been known to be equipped with the M157 engine:
Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG (W212):
Standard Version: Around 518 horsepower and 516 lb-ft of torque.
E63 AMG S Version: Approximately 577 horsepower and 590 lb-ft of torque.
Mercedes-Benz CLS63 AMG (C218):
Standard Version: Around 518 horsepower and 516 lb-ft of torque.
CLS63 AMG S Version: Approximately 577 horsepower and 590 lb-ft of torque.
Mercedes-Benz ML63 AMG (W166):
Around 518 horsepower and 516 lb-ft of torque.
Mercedes-Benz S63 AMG (W221):
Standard Version: Around 518 horsepower and 516 lb-ft of torque.
S63 AMG S Version: Approximately 577 horsepower and 664 lb-ft of torque.
Mercedes-Benz G63 AMG (W463):
Approximately 536 horsepower and 561 lb-ft of torque.
Well, that's interesting. Our friend have the CEL problem has a 2015 S63 W217.
It's not just confirmation bias. The WIS info on how the valve works and why is applicable to all engines. So, the way it works in the M274 is the same as the M157 or M278 or M276, etc.
Still, I don't know why the S63 has a sensor or why it throws a CEL for unplugging. The sensor value isn't even exposed in Xentry, which is even dumber.
I said "there is at least a little confirmation bias"
you said "it's not just confirmation bias"
glad we agree there is some small amount of confirmation bias with heaps of actual technical knowledge and testing. Is that fair?
still waiting for the m157 tech recommendations on the soft code for oil solenoid.... will keep waiting
until then there is some speculation. Additionally there are things you admit you don't know like why a CEL for the s63.... I'm as curious as you are as to why. You're the guy driving this and it's likely going to be monumental for us m157 owners to help maintain these engines we love. Trust me I'm your fan.
Last edited by PeterUbers; 12-28-2023 at 03:21 PM.
I've had the solenoid unplugged for over 1600 miles so far and I have not seen a difference in mpg. First picture with 1792m had the solenoid plugged in for all 1792m. Second picture with 1619m had the solenoid unplugged for all 1619m.
He needs to be cautious that someone disconnect the solenoid because of his advice, and the engine fails later for some other unrelated issue. You know, my engine failed because some person snizzed in the Artic.
Love it when he splits drivers into 20's and 50+'s. Where does he think the "pre existing wear" comes from? Low oil pressure for those driving like grandma below 3000 rpm? I am a bit on the fence why full oil pump behavior will wear oil faster. Oil wear faster because of high temperature, and fuel and soot pollution. I agree that those on cold climates to stick to 0W40, and 5W40 for moderate weather. I would have done so even in Toyotas, low for winter and higher for the rest of the year.
As stated by @CaliBenzDriver , the mod is not for everyone, but those willing to do the due diligence, and make a conscious decision. I did my E, and will do my ML after new year.
It's interesting to watch thing go: we know more than Master Tasos on that research topic!!
Watching Master Tasos video tells me...
-- We both have the same conservative recommendation... "DON'T DO IT!"
-- He has not connected the dots to understand what we have done. He will likely experiment this new thing with his shop project car. Racetrack redline rush is unlike driving around or commuting at 2000.Rpm.
-- First and foremost: everyone's favorite the SLOW PICKUP aka. SPONGY PEDAL.
He did not realize the negatives of low pressure on hydraulic VVT positioning.
That's the root cause of poor performance of the VIP pair [ECU/TCU] below 2000.RPM.
> DRY CYLINDERS:
Regarding cylinders Master Tasos enumerated all the parts but did not link random squirting to bore scoring, piston cracking, stuck rings damages.
> OIL LIFESPAN:
Regarding oil issues I though Tasos clearly got his position backwards saying 15kMi oil change is hurt by normal pressure.
The one thing that burns any oil into junk is the limited squirting.
Having normal squirting cools the core much more efficiently and preserve oil from extreme heat that cause piston cracks and scoring.
> OIL VISCOSITY:
There's no debate about viscosity vs climate. (OW40 vs. 10W50). Oil viscosity benefits from being at operating temperature. Hence use of heat exchangers to control viscosity. Strike against burning oil on dry pistons.
> PUMP RELIEF
I did not know pump had a relief ball-on-spring valve. This comes into play in extreme engine RPM where pump is always kept to high output. Internal leaks prevent reaching high limits that could strain the chain drive.
On the low end at idle pump output are nearly identical.
We can translate that as...:
"Solenoid creates a VVT-Phaser delay by artificially holding low idle pressure".
> Does that help everyone understand mushy pedal?
Poor tranny response is caused by the combination of poor engine response combined with networking latencies.
These great machines are easily upset by timings jitter. Fix that to optimize best performance.
++++ Crankcase pressure...
We almost forgot the oil hoosing out of every weak seal into harness, vacuum pump (brakes!), plenum swamp, jacketed intake valves
"That's it... nothing more and nothing less!" Eufcharistó
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 12-28-2023 at 06:50 PM.
Would you conclude the extra performance has not affected your gas mileage with average city driving 37mph?
I'm glad I watched Tasos video he just posted. He made mention of the fact that some people do not see any major differences from having the solenoid connected vs disconnecting the solenoid. I can honestly say I have not noticed any major differences in how my car drives, operates, idles, etc., during the past month/1600 miles...EXCEPT one. Prior to disconnecting, when the car was cold, in comfort mode starting from 2nd gear, and being driven from a stop, the rpms would jump (400-700 rpms depending how much throttle was applied) and the trans would slip a little before fully engaging. I always hated that. After disconnecting, this scenario is dramatically reduced with very little rmp bounce(100 or 200 rpms at most) and very little slip. A much better experience to drive when cold and you don't have to baby the throttle to avoid the car jerking.
My car is tuned with catless downpipes and I run e40 100% of the time for the last 45000 miles.
im around 17.8 and I don’t even get on it much 🤦🏻♂️
I have a 90 mile round trip commute, 4-5 days/week, with roughly 80 of those miles on the highway usually cruising 70-80mph with little to no traffic. The extra 10 miles is all stop n go though.
12-28-2023, 12:07 PM
