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Ok, let me write help How To Smooth Out a normally well running engine.
This is collection of helpful tips not a study.
> REQUIREMENTS:
14.4V chassis voltage
stable fuel pressures
balanced fuel trims (Lambda!)
Rattle free VVT Gears
spark ignition less 50kMi.
> REWORK:
(normal MOD oil pressure)
Sealed piston rings 2kMi
Stiff chain tensioners less <50kMi.
Oil viscosity10w-40
drive time for ECU self-adaptations
> OUTCOME:
blow-by pressure is minimal
brake booster vacuum gets strong!
rattlesnake GDI injectors quiet out!
ECU delivers extended low end response otherwise unavailable.
The ECU decides to switch injection style when the timing performances it tracks are satisfied.
The only thing we can do is help the engine meet ECU smoothness criteria.
As far as high-mileage unbalanced engine:
try giving it clean premium detergent oil to cleanup carbonated rings. Ignore dirty intake valve stems.
> SHORTCUT:
-- You may try to skip leaky tensioners by providing thicker viscosity, like a 15w40.
-- A good 60% chance this may be enough to hold chain slack until the old $100 tensioners can be renewed.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-05-2024 at 09:13 PM.
This is how I choose my oil.
First I need API - SP rating because I fall under Turbocharged and Direct Injection, where LSPI can happen with higher certainty. LSPI = Low SPeed Pre-Ignition.
I would also want to maintain MB 299.5 approval.
SP rating is demanded by automakers due to them realizing how small displacement engine is being turbocharged and have direct injection, and probably drivers like to kinda "lug" the engine,
LSPI occurs usually 1,500 - 2,000 RPM and given high load aka lazy to downshift driver
The calcium level in non API-SP oil was higher, it seems this calcium is also contributing to LSPI. Example, Mobil 1 0W40 <2022/2023 version in my market ( asia-pacific ) was not API-SP yet it was API-SN,
today for my market it is already API-SP. You need to see latest data sheet of the oil, as it takes time for some brands/type of oil to be API-SP approved for different parts of the world.
The differences to newer SP standard is as below :
.
Here is the 2024 Mobil 1 0W40 specs, which these specs are what matters to me as far as oil quality is concerned.
2 of Liqui Moly oils, the right one is what you posted. Direct from Liqui Moly Germany website, so it is latest tech sheet. MoS2 version is not MB 299.5 approved. Only API-SL
The left one is what I once tested. I do not know why the datasheet did not include Viscosity Index.
The AMSOIL you posted. It has obsolete MB oil approvals. https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/uploa..._e_9573181.pdf
This API-SL only.
If I have diesel engine, I would love to use this oil as I am very familiar with MAN 271/3275 approval. I think this oil is geared more for diesel engine.
Here is what is most important for me.
01. 100 Celsius kinematic viscosity.
02. High Viscosity Index.
03. Good High Temp/High Shear
Mobil 1 0w40 at 100C kinematic viscosity is 13.5 mm2/s. HTHS 3.6 mPa-sec
Liqui Moly High Tech 5W40 at 100C kinematic viscosity is 12.9 mm2/s. HTHS No data.
Liqui Moly M0S2 10W40 100C kinematic viscosity is 14.2 mm2/s. HTHS 3.5 mPa-sec
AMSOIL in this post, 10W40 kinematic viscosity is 14.6 mm2/s. HTHS 4.3 mPa-sec
During cold start, me using the Zero W even in tropical country has nothing to loose, as the oil will spread faster and surely it is still thicker than at 100C running engine.
There is no data for 30C, the standard is at 40C for lower temperature.
At 40 C, kinematic viscosity 77 , 70, 90 and 95.6 mm2/s are the values. Mobil1---LM High Tech---LM M0S2---AMSOIL
HTHS at 150C is a balancing act. If API-SP , it has to pass the load test and at the same time fuel economy test.
With me keeping 6 months max, or 5,000KM max, or 200 hours max or whichever comes first, I get the better part of my engine oil as it has not oxidized much or aged too much and
also less contamination it keeps in suspension and this is so important for keeping engine as healthy as I can, as I abused its redline RPM often.
.
This is a 1,000+ KM old engine oil, where the engine was last shut down 24 hours ago.
So no air bubble in oil and typical of a daily used car scenario for oil spread. Defeated or not the oil solenoid, it does not matter for under 30 ish seconds of any COLD start.
In 1.6 second after engine has idle on its own, I can get 55PSI, which for me is max-good, where true maximum is 60 PSI is engine oil this "cold" ( 30C is warm actually LOL ).
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Interesting. I checked my 5 qt and 12 qt Mobil 1 0W-40 containers and neither has API SP. However, I have a six-pack of the 1 qt bottles and they do have API SP approval. Maybe my bulk stuff is older.
So for old timers like me...my take is thicker oil is better use 15W40 with correct ANSI designation compared to using -0-20W your engine will last longer and run better...change every 3000 miles or 5000 km And of course do the oil solenoid mod ....End of story
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Originally Posted by WRC-LVR
So for old timers like me...my take is thicker oil is better use 15W40 with correct ANSI designation compared to using -0-20W your engine will last longer and run better...change every 3000 miles or 5000 km And of course do the oil solenoid mod ....End of story
As long as the oil meets MB Specification 229.5 (or whatever the Operator's Manual states) and weight approval, you should be good. Neither 0W-20 nor 15W-40 are listed weights.
Thank you Master Surya, I really appreciate the depth of your understanding including the science of engine oils. All sorts of engines and all types of oils
A lot of us understand what's involved with oil and treat it with extreme care it deserves. Oil is in charge of frictions, bearings and cooling jobs.
Thank you for pointing the Moly and Amso were mismatched with superior additive packages used mostly for diesels.
>> Can you please help select a good 10W-40?
I want to further test how my M276-NA reacts to a bit more viscosity. I need thicker polymeric chains!
Perhaps a 10w40 will be no improvement over the MOTUL XCESS GEN2 5W-40.
it's approved !!
I am motivated to test if my ECU can muscle my single HPFP as early as 700 RPM.
It does take time for the ECU to learn the control of cam solenoids to pressurize the VVT chambers. This is what needs to happen over 1500.Mi when pulling the plug initially. The engine develops significantly greater torque response, right?
The accelerator laggy response cleans up near ~1350 RPM limit using MOD. If you have met this limit, this is the thread.
It took a while for wise men to unplug, now you can grab more for the same price.
Pay attention to how the ECU-TCU are unable to hold 1-2-3 gears normally into RPM's, right?
My goal is best mixture at 1100 with seemless VVT pressurized at 750.RPM. Everything else above is based on that. When I barely touch the accelerator I get a kick in the butt !
> Pressure test records: cold start pressure data
It's a great engine oil test. I really like seeing the pressure building up after a cold start.
Its takes 2.6sec to get 57Psi max pressure after starting on high idle. Then as soon as ECU can actuate VVT position, the idle drops towards 650Rpm.
The part that missing is how soon can it drop after faster VVT flush.
> RATTLE pin protection:
By keeping the VVT well pressurized, I bet this is going to shrink lock/unlock cycle count.
Without MOD, the limited pressure unlocks VVT late around 2000.RPM which means it locks/unlocks non-stop while driving.
This wears out the RATTLING pins. The labor to swap VVT is identical to doing the job well with new camshafts and 2x HPFP + PCV.
So unlocking less is a positive action.
It's interesting to realize MB 229.5 does not extend past 10w40 grade. I'll stay within reasonable boundaries for now
not heavy additives for diesel... they didn't pay to be OEM referenced
Pennzoil-Shell has no "ultra platinum" in 10w40
++++
My engine features 4x VVT for best "low torque" that are now humming.
Super cool: I enjoy how cool the engine stays considering the amount of power it puts out before MOD it was always super hot with fan on cool days.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-07-2024 at 03:55 AM.
Interesting. I checked my 5 qt and 12 qt Mobil 1 0W-40 containers and neither has API SP. However, I have a six-pack of the 1 qt bottles and they do have API SP approval. Maybe my bulk stuff is older.
One of the few commonly available oils in the US is Pennzoil that is API SP and 229.5. I haven't run it yet and was hoping the Molygen 5W-40 was good enough.
It seems MB299.5 specified that no 10W** will be allowed. Its thickest Winter grade is 5W if for their high performance engine. Footnote no 2.
Also the MB oil list lock thickest winter grade at 5W.
.
See, there is no 10W40 allocated in the list of 2024.
I believe MB does not want their COLD country consumers to suffer slow oil pressure build up in winter if using 10W40.
.
This is how SAE defined viscosity of an oil when they tested it :
Example if that 40 I circled red goes down to say 12 mm2/sec or less, it then becomes 30 oil.... at 100C.
Take a look at 0W, 5W and 10W minimum allowed kinematic viscosity mm2/sec at 100C
0W is 3.8
5W is 3.8
10W is 4.1
Now we see the typical SAE kinematic viscosity rating at various cooler temperature before engine reach operating temperature.
I am only using the Zero-W section for below table of 0W30 , as the is no 0W40 list in Anton Paar.com
What I do not understand is, why are you after 10W40 oil ?
What advantage the winter part of 10W in a 10W40 has, compared to a 0W or 5W in a 0W40 or 5W40 ?
Oil viscosity is to be read in 2 separate parts. First two digits 0W is when temperature is very cold and the lowest is 0W which is the fastest and easiest oil spread we can hope for.
This 0W does not effect the 90C -100C normal engine oil running temperature ( 90C ish is after the oil cooler )
The 40 is what protects the engine when a 40 weight oil provides minimum kinematic viscosity of no lower then 12.5 mm2/sec at engine designed operating temperature.
If in a base load application like diesel power generator in the tropics, in small village under 1-2 megawatt, I don't mind choosing a high performance single grade 40 or 50 oil,
high performance straight 40 or 50 will be more stable if run at such non stop long hours.
The generator run minimum 24-48 hours non stop before load is transferred to another generator in a electrical synchronized system where there would not be voltage loss or drop at all during
the switching from generator 1 to the few other generators.
I know in the past BMW will recommend 50 oil for track day use. MB also in 2017 still allows MB 299.3 which has 5W50 oil grade.
There is no gain by using 10W40 compared to 0W40 if quality of both oil is very good.
In fact, if one wants his VVT to be in action faster at engine COLD start, 0W40 is faster than 10W40.
If stability of the viscosity at 100C oil temperature is the target for load bearing surface or VVT, both are 40 grade ... so both technically is the same or limited by SAE
to be within 12.6 to 16.3 mm2/sec viscosity if a 40 oil.
The simplest way would be, use the oil while it is still "VERY GOOD", its creme le de creme state. 4,000 - 5,000 miles or max 9 months.
=====================
The oil solenoid defeat and the oxygen sensors ALL new is indeed very nice. This is very good drive-ability.
My oil been extra creme le de creme state of being this past 2 years, 3 oil changes so far none exceed 2,000 KM, always got hit by the 6 months limitation.
Note : My tranny oil is 20,000KM max or 2 years. Now it is at under 4,000KM of use and is 1+ year old.
I will show how easy in COMFORT mode, I can choose to drop gear 1 number lower at a time , with ease and speed and I would say with precision.... because when I bought this car in 2018 at 10,000KM it could never
be modulated this precise for downshift 1 gear at a time with little throttle input. It has to be lots of throttle input. Tranny oil change improved response a lot few months after purchase, but was never this good like now.
Video time code last 3 digits are for 1/1000 second.
ABOVE : 6th gear, throttle angle only to maintain speed as this is not a flat road.
.
I wanted to drop to 5th gear and it already happened, see engine RPM, tranny module reporting is slow to show 5th gear.
See, how slow the tranny indicator is.
I kept modulating throttle, so that the tranny will drop to 4th nicely and then to 3rd nicely.
ABOVE : Now tranny is actually already 4th gear, see RPM. But tranny indicator has not updated itself.
I drop to 3rd gear, again tranny indicator was still showing 5th gear hahahaah, see RPM , that is 3rd gear.
I finally reduce throttle angle as at this speed and RPM, tranny won't go to 2nd gear anyway. And then 3rd gear finally showing on tranny indicator...Dumb Azz slow data.
NOTE : There is also a possibility the Xentry displaying data on the laptop is 0.3 to 0.4 second slower/lag than actual data from car modules, for some non important data like gear position.
The simplest way would be, use the oil while it is still "VERY GOOD", its creme le de creme state. 4,000 - 5,000 miles or max 9 months.
.
@S-Prihadi , not sure how we measure very good. To me Mobil 1 0W40 smell burnt in my garage after a 7 miles run even aft fresh OC, not even OWT, but above 100MPH, and miss 1 1/2 qt around 8K miles consistently between the 20K/30K/40K/50K/60K/70K/80 OC. Since switching to Motul 5W40, no burnt smell in the garage, quieter idle cold, or warm, same 7 miles runs and it has not missed a qt in 3 oil changes (@5K intervals). So, either the brand, the weight, or the OCI --> Summary: do not change what is already working, just rinse and repeat.
> Responsive Solid Throttle :
You can tell the MOD makes the engine throttle much more responsive. Sponge pedal be gone!
> How can oil pressure do that....
It's a computerized throttle by wire, no oil is involved. What gives ??
-- The new "normal" oil pressure delivers a higher volume at a lower rpm compared to solenoid activated.
We've seen the pressure with/without MOD can be represented by 2 distinct slopes.
-- The MOD1.0 experimentation showed me that having more pressure at lower RPM appears beneficial.
Interesting... then how can that make such a huge difference?
> What is happening :
- Cylinders are normally cooled by squirters
- Tensioners get stiff at lower RPM
- VVT gears are enabled at lower RPM
- HPFP prop valve get synchronized
> We realized that:
- it's all controlled by the ECU... duh!
- unburned oil has a higher viscosity
- Computers need time to relearn adaptation maps in ECU+TCU.
Thank you team Surya/Cali for solenoid MOD
... but wait: you ain't seen nothing yet with MOD-1.0.
Now help yourself to MOD-2.0.
We are going to give you more of that power you like by giving your engine what it needs.
The savy experimenters will notice, the bottom end is still missing. THE 2Tons CAR FEELS HEAVY OFF THE LINE, right?
Ok Let's fix that!
I did not invent this. I followed my logic. I always say "it's obvious once you know"... well it is.
The ECU MAPS that are affected by oil pressure need to clean up at 750.RPM before car starts moving. <<READ THIS ONE MORE TIME!
Right now the engine is not in condition until an RPM that correlates to oil qualities... says the ECU software.
The rock hard throttle is how steep is the fuel map. When the mechanicals are loose the timings have too much variability. The ECU tracks and works to smooth crankshaft jitter down to the individual cylinder level.
> Practical Oiling -101 :
Oil products have been studied and classified for over a century. Very little should be unknown yet oil is still a complex topic with tons of variables.
The key variable in this topic is the viscosity. It's affected by oil temperature.
> OIL PARADOX : Why is 0W-40 less viscous than 10W-40 at operating temp 200°F ??
The engine temperature is regulated by the coolant thermostat, heat is extracted through exchangers. ALL xW-40 oils SHOULD have nearly equal viscosity... but it is far from that!!
We learned about viscosity modifiers that get degraded by the aging process. Old oils end up liquidish and poor at clinging.
Yesterday we watched the following video that shows viscosity on curves.
viscosity vs temp
This shows the viscosity curves are aimed by the first digits.
MEANING: the cold number clearly interact with operating temperature - I concur it does.
TRANSLATION: At operating temp, a 0W is less viscous than a 10W.
Once we are done with the science to guide our steps, we can get ready to get dirty... PRACTICAL APPLICATION:
There are only few oil candidates available we can select.
Mob1 does not have a matching 10W-40 because MB specs viscosities that save gas.
We are forced to consider what's on the market.
I understand MB oil specs ranges from 0w30 to 5w40. Remember this spec is in relation with restricted pumping : active solenoid.
Me no solenoid, oil is colder, not burned - Already viscosity is at more favorable lower temp.
What does that do?
It further exposes the reduced engine response below 2000.RPM. I directly tie that to oil viscosity.
I am currently experimenting oil a bit outside MB specs without heavy additives.
Its very basic: I need a viscosity that can position VVT + Tensioners near 750.RPM... not 1400.Rpm This gap is the LAG when ECU maps are poor.
I am curious to see what oil it's going to take to manage twin-HPFP quad-lobes on turbos...a 10W-40 or 15W-40?
Does that help ? > TEST DRIVE...:
- Have you noticed your engine jerking (step-step-step) when accelerating through 1400.RPM ?
Actual RPM number depends on oil viscosity.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-07-2024 at 11:42 PM.
@S-Prihadi , not sure how we measure very good. To me Mobil 1 0W40 smell burnt in my garage after a 7 miles run even aft fresh OC, not even OWT, but above 100MPH, and miss 1 1/2 qt around 8K miles consistently between the 20K/30K/40K/50K/60K/70K/80 OC. Since switching to Motul 5W40, no burnt smell in the garage, quieter idle cold, or warm, same 7 miles runs and it has not missed a qt in 3 oil changes (@5K intervals). So, either the brand, the weight, or the OCI --> Summary: do not change what is already working, just rinse and repeat.
Juan:
The TT guys have a well working PCV system that stops oil migration into the intake plenum.
Our M276 NA is the opposite....
The non-turbo engine PCV features an intake plenum that can store quarts of vaporized engine oil. It all gets burned straight through intake valves.
The MOTUL 5W40 true viscosity is light years away from 0W-40 despite numbers being so close.
This oil product works awesomely like you say: No smell, No losses.
In addition I noticed my engine heat further significantly decreased just by using that oil. My engine and I really say thank you!
Now I want to test what a good 10W-40 can do to my timings.
I am not sure if my next 10W-40 will be as good as the Motul 5W-40 product.
When comparing Mob1 0w40 vs. Mot 5w40, I can't help thinking these numbers are fluffy use different scales (*) - Testing shows reality.
Another obvious attribute:
* : light base oil stock need more viscosity modifiers and we know these agents get degraded.
So the viscosity of a thicker stock will last longer. ✌️
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-07-2024 at 06:32 PM.
@S-Prihadi , not sure how we measure very good. To me Mobil 1 0W40 smell burnt in my garage after a 7 miles run even aft fresh OC, not even OWT, but above 100MPH, and miss 1 1/2 qt around 8K miles consistently between the 20K/30K/40K/50K/60K/70K/80 OC. Since switching to Motul 5W40, no burnt smell in the garage, quieter idle cold, or warm, same 7 miles runs and it has not missed a qt in 3 oil changes (@5K intervals). So, either the brand, the weight, or the OCI --> Summary: do not change what is already working, just rinse and repeat.
I can't comment on your oil burnt smell as our engine is very different for its PCV and age/mileage and yours is NA and mine is turbocharged.
I am in the tropics and tracked my car during Covid for the heck of fun and had to slow down due to coolant temp hitting 120C. I do not have the "burnt" smell, even though I have turbos.
As per your oil consumption, you must compare different 2 different oils at 8K miles to 8K miles and within similar driving style and terrain.
Oil degradation is not linear.
Usually my experience of "burnt" smell (assuming we are smelling the same smell ) is a car never run hard and then I run it hard.
Like my Dad'/Mom car, our driver is sooooo slow...so when I run it hard usually it has that smell, but if I do it more often that smell goes away.
My own car since I WOT redline it so often, it has no smell anymore.
A brand new car and never driven hard for X years, when driven hard will usually have that "burnt" smell.
All my Mom/Dad cars are like that, when I do run them hard.
I think if you find Motul of your choice is good for your engine and outperform the M1 0W40, stick to that Motul. Agree, keep what works best for you.
Now that Mobil 1 0W40 in my market is an API-SP, I would love to know how much better it would be for my engine.
I bought that latest API-SP Mobil 1 is for my friend C200 W204. My engine last oil fill is still API-SN rating.
My engine is due for another oil change, due to the 6 months limit. I only driven under 2,000KM on it.
In fact since Jan 2022, I have gone thru 3 oil changes ( 4th one on LM not counted ) but clocked no more than total 4,000KM by today.
So each oil change on average is 1,350KM max of use. <840 miles.
So, when I said my oil is still always very fresh, I meant it
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Originally Posted by S-Prihadi
Now that Mobil 1 0W40 in my market is an API-SP, I would love to know how much better it would be for my engine.
Is there a Walmart where you are?
As I mentioned above (I think), my last purchase of Mobil 1 0W-40 in a six-pack of 1 qt bottles, API-SP was listed. But on the bulk pack of 5 qt bottles or the 12 qt oil-in-a-box size, they were still the latest before API-SP.
One of the reasons I like keeping my SL400 in S mode is it will always downshift to 1st gear when stopped, so no low speed bogging (not that I think it bogs in 2nd gear). But more importantly, those slow uphill climbs are in 4th or 5th gear rather than 7th.
What does the 229.5 oil mean for Mercedes engines outside of ash and fuel economy standards?
As stated much earlier in this thread, I run a go fast boat with twin 650 hp (mild) 509 big block Chevy engines. At full song, these things can run for miles at 5800 rpm. I run a 50W synthetic with slightly larger but in-service spec bearing clearances from GM (rather tight), and the oil temps (water cooled) run about 230-240F. When the base of these engines were stock Mercury Racing (even tighter clearances), I ran the same oil. The bearings came out looking like new at 600 hours. I could care less about the rating (walmart special 15w50 Mobil 1).
If you’re out of warranty, is there even a care about the 229.5 rating. I was going to switch to Driven DI oil, but really I’m tempted to use the same oil in the SL63 that I do in the boat (along with the some Ceratec). If it’s going to be in there for 3k miles, what difference would it really make? I think this oil is much more stable than the Euro blend.
I put pennzoil euro synthetic 5-40 in my car, I'm not worried about the oil ratings, the pennzoil has the latest ilsac rating which is a step ahead the mercedes oil rating for my m278, there for it's a better overall oil.
What does the 229.5 oil mean for Mercedes engines outside of ash and fuel economy standards?
As stated much earlier in this thread, I run a go fast boat with twin 650 hp (mild) 509 big block Chevy engines. At full song, these things can run for miles at 5800 rpm. I run a 50W synthetic with slightly larger but in-service spec bearing clearances from GM (rather tight), and the oil temps (water cooled) run about 230-240F. When the base of these engines were stock Mercury Racing (even tighter clearances), I ran the same oil. The bearings came out looking like new at 600 hours. I could care less about the rating (walmart special 15w50 Mobil 1).
If you’re out of warranty, is there even a care about the 229.5 rating. I was going to switch to Driven DI oil, but really I’m tempted to use the same oil in the SL63 that I do in the boat (along with the some Ceratec). If it’s going to be in there for 3k miles, what difference would it really make?
I think this oil is much more stable than the Euro blend.
A 15W-50 oil is a significant departure from what Mercedes specs recommends (0w30 to 5w40) for energy savings. Compare the related specs numbers if you will.
Our ECU needs time to adapt the engine performance based on its array of sensors. In particular the VVT solenoids uses PWM to position the camshaft at timing angles calculated looked-up from a LEARNED VVT ADAPTATION MAP.
So when we change oil this map gets tweaked to match the current engine realities (temp, load, rpm,..., OIL Viscosity).
If you can get a 0W-50, you will have more stable oil viscosity for this engine.
The light cold weight will derate the heavy warm viscosity index.
A 0W-50 maybe practically close to a 10W-45.
My personal approach is to depart from spec with small incremental steps. At operating temperatures all W-40 oils should be really close. A 5W-40 and a 10W-40 will operate similarly.
Fresh oil offer more stable viscosity that's lost in aged oils.
> Skipping OIL grades:
Going from a 0W-35 to a 15W-50 will be quite a challenge for the ECU to respond well. I don't know if large skips are a good move. They may or may not be proven good by your testing.
There's got to be pros & cons regarding:
crank bearings
pistons
HPFP piston and roller
camshafts bearing
VVT Gears
> Tstat Temp Yo-yo:
My engine heat level has been drastically reduced to normal temperatures. This sudden change maybe confusing what my heated Tstat has adapted to expect. ECU controlled Temps seem to deviate up/down instead of linear.
I am not familiar with the life span of a genuine MB Tstat. 50kMi seems to be super short lived.
I am curious to learn what service the ECU software regulation is built to expect.
Possible sources of Temperature Yo-Yo :
Tstat was toasted by former superheat cycles
ECU Temp control map needs reset/relearn
Tempsensor on Bank2 has electrical issue
I don't know if this is correlated to oil MOD's. At any rate I definitely side with normalized heat.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-10-2024 at 11:01 PM.
A 15W-50 oil is a significant departure from what Mercedes specs recommends (0w30 to 5w40) for energy savings. Compare the related specs numbers if you will.
Our ECU needs time to adapt the engine performance based on its array of sensors. In particular the VVT solenoids uses PWM to position the camshaft at timing angles calculated looked-up from a LEARNED VVT ADAPTATION MAP.
So when we change oil this map gets tweaked to match the current engine realities (temp, load, rpm,..., OIL Viscosity).
If you can get a 0W-50, you will have more stable oil viscosity for this engine.
The light cold weight will derate the heavy warm viscosity index.
A 0W-50 maybe practically close to a 10W-45.
My personal approach is to depart from spec with small incremental steps. At operating temperatures all W-40 oils should be really close. A 5W-40 and a 10W-40 will operate similarly.
Fresh oil offer more stable viscosity that's lost in aged oils.
> Skipping OIL grades:
Going from a 0W-35 to a 15W-50 will be quite a challenge for the ECU to respond well. I don't know if large skips are a good move. They may or may not be proven good by your testing.
There's got to be pros & cons regarding:
crank bearings
pistons
HPFP piston and roller
camshafts bearing
VVT Gears
> Tstat Temp Yo-yo:
My engine heat level has been drastically reduced to normal temperatures. This sudden change maybe confusing what my heated Tstat has adapted to expect. ECU controlled Temps seem to deviate up/down instead of linear.
I am not familiar with the life span of a genuine MB Tstat. 50kMi seems to be super short lived.
I am curious to learn what service the ECU software regulation is built to expect.
Possible sources of Temperature Yo-Yo :
Tstat was toasted by former superheat cycles
ECU Temp control map needs reset/relearn
Tempsensor on Bank2 has electrical issue
I don't know if this is correlated to oil MOD's. At any rate I definitely side with normalized heat.
Gotta say that I’m not quite following the logic here.
If the valve timing is electronically controlled, the ECU shouldn’t be concerned with oil pressure outside of trying to maintain fuel economy standards that do nothing to help with longevity.
I am not interested in economy; I’m interested in prolonging the engine’s life - something that MB has dropped the ball on. I don’t live in a cold climate so having an oil that flows at 0 degrees is of little importance to me.
There’s actually not much of a difference between the flow characteristics of a 40w and 50w oil - but I think that it’s enough of an increase in viscosity to make a difference especially on the performance engines (M157) where these engines are expected to be beat on more often compared to the M276/M278.
dialing Valve Timings vs. variable pressure + viscosity
Originally Posted by TomZVB
Gotta say that I’m not quite following the logic here.
If the valve timing is electronically controlled, the ECU shouldn’t be concerned with oil pressure outside of trying to maintain fuel economy standards that do nothing to help with longevity.
I am not interested in economy; I’m interested in prolonging the engine’s life - something that MB has dropped the ball on. I don’t live in a cold climate so having an oil that flows at 0 degrees is of little importance to me.
There’s actually not much of a difference between the flow characteristics of a 40w and 50w oil - but I think that it’s enough of an increase in viscosity to make a difference especially on the performance engines (M157) where these engines are expected to be beat on more often compared to the M276/M278.
Just my thoughts.
"If the valve timing is electronically controlled, the ECU shouldn’t be concerned with oil pressure outside of trying to maintain fuel economy standards that do nothing to help with longevity".
Good point! MB doesn't entirely spec lubricants for longevity and MOD2.0 proves not for performance either.
As far as the ECU control of the variable valve timing, it's entirely based on the variable oil pressure.
The ECU firmware tracks a collection of variables to build a VVT actuation map (load, RPM, temp)
Without enough pressure the bottom of the VVT map is DISABLED (MOD1+ MOD2).
The VVT are locked up until working pressure is available at higher RPM - We don't want that!
We have practical evidence low oil viscosity disables the much needed low RPM actuation.
Low viscosity being bad does not mean high viscosity is good - We are searching for the sweet spot between the [Hi - Lo] extremes: 10W-40 ??
W50 viscosity is good for bearings surfaces while at operating temperature. The issue is short drive trips may not provide best application.
The W40 medium viscosity is between light W30 and heavy W50. Oils sharing the same grades behave differently based on their additives.
oil additives manufacturers
A heavy W50 driven in the warm weather should greatly help seal cylinders, decrease blow-by and oil consumption.
The oil heat exchanger helps to quickly heat up the oil when cold then cool it wen hot. This is how MOD1.0 prevents oil from burning.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-11-2024 at 03:54 PM.
Heya i need help please,
it was this connector for the problem
We tried to connect the solenoids but i wasnt fit. idk why and its genuine part A2781800415. we had to remove the noiseplatic pins in there to make it fit.
Like this connector we had to cut this front because doesn't fit too.
After Connecting we could delete code, all fine but thesolenoids was going extremly hot like 100 - 150 C or more we couldn't handle it anymore.It was so hot that you could no longer attach it with a cable tie
How much degrees Celsius should be have the solenoids outside?
We reinstall all and i get back my Error
Finally had time and weather appropriate to knock this out.
Got it on the ramps and pulled down both plates really quickly
then had a bit of trouble pulling off the OEM solenoid plug - used a dental pick to lift the black tab that holds the gray clip. Once the clip was backed out I squeezed the gray clip towards be black plug and the plug easily popped out.
and lo and behold I have oil at the plug ...
so I am immediately glad I did this, if nothing else to prevent oil creeping back into the engine wire harness.
then attached an extension harness to the OEM solenoid, and this harness ends with a hot glued termination. I then connected the OEM wire harness to the next extension harness, which is then connected to the Alibaba solenoid.
The thing that took the longest amount of time was determining how I wanted to use zip ties to attach the redundant harnesses to local tubes or wire harnesses. I didn't want things to flop around and I did not want things to get too close to the radiator fan.
driving impressions, so far are not overwhelmingly different, the engine does not seem any louder or quieter than before once I've started it. Of course, I'll give this several hundred miles for the ECU and the TCU to relearn whatever it needs to relearn in order to optimize this new condition. Will continue to report back my findings, I did not get any code, thanks to the dummy solenoid, likely, and also I did not get any check engine light.
I currently have this modification with one of my four ECU installed. This particular ECU is 100 octane tune from AMS, it was a custom dyno tune and I've had no issues with it for several thousand miles. Additionally, I have a 93 octane tune ECU from and, also dyno tuned, a E-40 tune ecu from Eurocharged, and I have the OEM stock ECU. my TCU tune is the edok tune that I received from eurocharged ATX.
it is my understanding that I'll have to relearn all four of these ECU boxes.
Last edited by PeterUbers; 03-11-2024 at 02:02 PM.
"If the valve timing is electronically controlled, the ECU shouldn’t be concerned with oil pressure outside of trying to maintain fuel economy standards that do nothing to help with longevity".
Good point! MB doesn't entirely spec lubricants for longevity and MOD2.0 proves not for performance either.
As far as the ECU control of variable valve timing, it's entirely based on the variable oil pressure.
The ECU firmware tracks a collection of variables to build a VVT actuation map (load, RPM, temp)
Without enough pressure the bottom of the VVT map is DISABLED (MOD1+ MOD2). The VVT are locked up until working pressure is available.
We have evidence low oil viscosity disables the low RPM actuation. Low viscosity being bad does not mean high viscosity is good - There's a range.
...../....
A while back I brought up the issue about how the solenoid may be part of the control mechanism for VVT but was told that the solenoid's function wasn't related so my response was based on that. In other engines, this type of solenoid does in fact control oil pressure for VVT. All of this VVT stuff is foreign to me so give me some slack, lol. Give me a big block Chevy with some good aluminum heads and a nice mechanical roller and I'm at home!
03-05-2024, 02:55 PM
