Oil pump solenoids
#1126
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 5,404
Likes: 2,017
From: Maryland, United States
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
#1128
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 6,276
Likes: 3,884
From: Silicon Valley
MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
simple engine correction
Cold start after sitting outside in 30 deg. for 2 hours. Apparently the oil didn't cool much from 50 deg temps inside garage. 3000ish miles since unplug.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVPPF2VVG2Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVPPF2VVG2Q
Your engine sounds all good but not extraordinarily smooth so your improvements are stuck until smoothness returns.
This you have a chance to fix easily
You are now missing the whole chapter with rattlesnake free HPFP injection. That's where kick *** power is resumed with GDI multi-shot mixtures.
We can help you get towards that easily.
Your current oil is too thin for what Tensioners and VVT Gear needs. It definitely needs a viscosity bump.
The winter oil viscosity impacts your VVT RPM not working low. They are a bit starved. That's why your start up RPM stays up waiting for pressure to build up to smooth CPS Timings. That should get halved.
Your car should shoot right into idle after sitting only 2hrs... this is a clue.
> REWORK:
1-- bump up oil grade: very easy
2-- new tensioners: easy
then you MAY have a smooth idle:
if your cylinders are going to seal.
if your twin bank fuel trims are balanced
given no mechanical damages spoil the party.
#1129
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 6,276
Likes: 3,884
From: Silicon Valley
MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
LEAN TRIMS???
Okay - Scanner on, no misfire on six - no changes what so ever to the car....
https://youtu.be/cBfUZZ19oRY
https://youtu.be/cBfUZZ19oRY
-- Let's go read your fuel trims to see how efficient your engine run is.
-- Hint... I believe we are going to find a mild lean.
-- Fixing that will return lost power and additional engine driveability response.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-01-2024 at 03:15 PM.
#1130
Member
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 198
Likes: 58
From: Endless Mtns. PA
2014 E63 AMG wagon 1965 Austin-Healey 3000 1970 AMC AMX
I like the rhythms of these engine parts working together under ECU timing control.
Your engine sounds all good but not extraordinarily smooth so your improvements are stuck until smoothness returns.
This you have a chance to fix easily
You are now missing the whole chapter with rattlesnake free HPFP injection. That's where kick *** power is resumed with GDI multi-shot mixtures.
We can help you get towards that easily.
Your current oil is too thin for what Tensioners and VVT Gear needs. It definitely needs a viscosity bump.
The winter oil viscosity impacts your VVT RPM not working low. They are a bit starved. That's why your start up RPM stays up waiting for pressure to build up to smooth CPS Timings. That should get halved.
Your car should shoot right into idle after sitting only 2hrs... this is a clue.
> REWORK:
1-- bump up oil grade: very easy
2-- new tensioners: easy
then you MAY have a smooth idle:
if your cylinders are going to seal.
if your twin bank fuel trims are balanced
given no mechanical damages spoil the party.
Your engine sounds all good but not extraordinarily smooth so your improvements are stuck until smoothness returns.
This you have a chance to fix easily
You are now missing the whole chapter with rattlesnake free HPFP injection. That's where kick *** power is resumed with GDI multi-shot mixtures.
We can help you get towards that easily.
Your current oil is too thin for what Tensioners and VVT Gear needs. It definitely needs a viscosity bump.
The winter oil viscosity impacts your VVT RPM not working low. They are a bit starved. That's why your start up RPM stays up waiting for pressure to build up to smooth CPS Timings. That should get halved.
Your car should shoot right into idle after sitting only 2hrs... this is a clue.
> REWORK:
1-- bump up oil grade: very easy
2-- new tensioners: easy
then you MAY have a smooth idle:
if your cylinders are going to seal.
if your twin bank fuel trims are balanced
given no mechanical damages spoil the party.
#1131
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 6,276
Likes: 3,884
From: Silicon Valley
MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
Is this an M156 E63 or M157 E63 ?
M156 is not a Direct Injection, correct ?
Wow....Its COLD start management is very different to M276 3.0 Turbo, which is Direct Injection and MED177 ECU family, which is the same family as M278 and M157, same DI injection system too.
The higher RPM of 900, after the 1,300 RPM is non existent in the video... so I cam curious if that is a port injection cold start strategy ?
This is how long my engine maintains its higher than idle RPM at COLD start and I am at 30C / 86F
7.14 data points is 1 second worth. Below is 120 seconds worth of capture. This is from Xentry VVT logging test.
About 50 seconds is the time my engine keep its higher than idle RPM , at a COLD start.
Data points 70 to 417 approx
M156 is not a Direct Injection, correct ?
Wow....Its COLD start management is very different to M276 3.0 Turbo, which is Direct Injection and MED177 ECU family, which is the same family as M278 and M157, same DI injection system too.
The higher RPM of 900, after the 1,300 RPM is non existent in the video... so I cam curious if that is a port injection cold start strategy ?
This is how long my engine maintains its higher than idle RPM at COLD start and I am at 30C / 86F
7.14 data points is 1 second worth. Below is 120 seconds worth of capture. This is from Xentry VVT logging test.
About 50 seconds is the time my engine keep its higher than idle RPM , at a COLD start.
Data points 70 to 417 approx
- What kind of oil viscosity grade are you running lately in Jakarta??
Here we can learn similarities between multiports and GDI at cold startup. ECU rushes into low RPM in open loop
#1132
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 6,276
Likes: 3,884
From: Silicon Valley
MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
GOOD LUBE
The oil is due for a change in 1000 mi.
The viscosity in the car now is 70% 0w-40 and 30% 5w-40 because that's what I had.
The next change I have all 5w-40 available. The car had sat for 2 days in garage then run briefly to back out of garage, sat for 2 hours then the video was made. By tensioners do You mean the serpentine belt ?
The viscosity in the car now is 70% 0w-40 and 30% 5w-40 because that's what I had.
The next change I have all 5w-40 available. The car had sat for 2 days in garage then run briefly to back out of garage, sat for 2 hours then the video was made. By tensioners do You mean the serpentine belt ?
The good part about thin oil is it cleans both sides of the dirty piston ringset.
That is what we want: to seal blow-by before using 5 or 10w-40 oil to really seal rings.
As far as stored winter cars.... when you regularly start the engine wait for things to warm up then use your MOD PRIVILEGE:
Gently raise idle to 2000.RPM to squirt your cylinders all lubed up.
There's No need to go up to 3500 RPM to get oil onto your cylinder walls - what a concept
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-01-2024 at 03:40 PM.
#1133
Member
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 198
Likes: 58
From: Endless Mtns. PA
2014 E63 AMG wagon 1965 Austin-Healey 3000 1970 AMC AMX
This old oil is really too thin by now.
The good part about thin oil is it cleans both sides of the dirty piston ringset.
That is what we want: to seal blow-by before using 5 or 10w-40 oil to really seal rings.
As far as stored winter cars.... when you regularly start the engine wait for things to warm up then use your MOD PRIVILEGE:
Gently raise idle to 2000.RPM to squirt your cylinders all lubed up.
There's No need to go up to 3500 RPM to get oil onto your cylinder walls - what a concept
The good part about thin oil is it cleans both sides of the dirty piston ringset.
That is what we want: to seal blow-by before using 5 or 10w-40 oil to really seal rings.
As far as stored winter cars.... when you regularly start the engine wait for things to warm up then use your MOD PRIVILEGE:
Gently raise idle to 2000.RPM to squirt your cylinders all lubed up.
There's No need to go up to 3500 RPM to get oil onto your cylinder walls - what a concept
#1134
The oil is due for a change in 1000 mi. The viscosity in the car now is 70% 0w-40 and 30% 5w-40 because that's what I had. The next change I have all 5w-40 available. The car had sat for 2 days in garage then run briefly to back out of garage, sat for 2 hours then the video was made. By tensioners do You mean the serpentine belt ?
The following users liked this post:
CaliBenzDriver (03-01-2024)
#1136
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 6,276
Likes: 3,884
From: Silicon Valley
MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
How many miles are your tensioners?
If you have a 3000PSI GDI, ypu want good tensioners.
Without HPFP it impacts cam timings, not fuel mixture.
The improved oil pressure all lucky MOD guys have helps offset natural leakage to have stiff Tensioners + VVT near 750rpm. Without MOD Oil mixed with air is like chewing gum compresible up to 1600.RPM.
THIS MOD PROVES that limited pressure impacts the basic timing of these engines.
Once the above truth is cristal clear for us then every step for better oil delivery is a wins improvements. Translated as follows :
good chain TENSIONERS + good OIL viscosity.
Engine without HPFP have less stress on bank1 tensioner oil.
If you have a 3000PSI GDI, ypu want good tensioners.
Without HPFP it impacts cam timings, not fuel mixture.
The improved oil pressure all lucky MOD guys have helps offset natural leakage to have stiff Tensioners + VVT near 750rpm. Without MOD Oil mixed with air is like chewing gum compresible up to 1600.RPM.
THIS MOD PROVES that limited pressure impacts the basic timing of these engines.
Once the above truth is cristal clear for us then every step for better oil delivery is a wins improvements. Translated as follows :
good chain TENSIONERS + good OIL viscosity.
Engine without HPFP have less stress on bank1 tensioner oil.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-01-2024 at 06:44 PM.
#1138
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 6,276
Likes: 3,884
From: Silicon Valley
MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
TENSIONER RULE THE ECU WORK !!!
Understanding the tensioners are not just greasy bits. They allow the engine to be perfectly timed by the mighty ECU.
When the cheap tensioners don't perfectly hold the chain slack, the timing jitter of the CPS/Cam and HPFP Valve kills exact ECU timings. This is extremely touchy to get to next improvement stage: SMOOTH TIMINGS.
> DISCOUNT....
Do you want less pain, more bang?
Do B1 tensioner only!!
B2 cams work way less. Wait on B2
> GDI Cam lobes?
- If you have HPFP on Bank1: change tensioner!
- If legacy injection do this when convenient.
The limp tensioners are USELESS MISSING without good oil to hold against lobes pushes. Good tensioners are ratcheting. Zero rattle drama.
Does that logic help you optimize your fixes?
+++ BOSCH TAILORED CYL PARAMETERS +++
You know how nothings ever perfects enough?
All cylinders are never exactly similar because of air intake, position away from pump.... our Bosch computer tailors to each cylinder mixture specifically. It uses a higher resolution flywheel to calculate timing deviations per cylinders. The last thing you want is ECU to detune too many of your cylinders.
ECU cant make up for all extreme mechanical conditions... need extra-stiff chain tensioners to hold camshafts jerkiness.
++++ FORGIVENESS .... viscosity your friend ++++
-- We are seeking nearly smooth timings ...
-- thus we are using oil pump to give us pressure... duh
-- VISCOSITY helps pressure by oil not bleeding out of TENSIONERS and VVT under HPFP torture lobes.
Meaning use viscosity to make up for tired leaky tensioners.... that's your 5mn FIX (This is just like snake oil to quiet noisy lifters).
Bump up oil to cheat a little and you'll see more smoothness!!
EASY TEST : Use a shot of honey for a couple hundreds of miles before oil swap
-- the best is NOT to have thinner oil that leak internally under working pressure. Thin oil is a freaking joke.
+++ MOD is anti-KILLER WHAT ??? ++++
Ok we've seen tensioner tend to get limp under poor conditions carefully setup... great.
Now what happens?
The tensioner forward seal is also the shaft guide. The more the shaft rams back into tensioner, the weaker seal gets.
Using low pressure gurantees this to happen sooner than later.
Meaning when you MOD oil pressure, help yourself to a B1 tensioner and viscosity to regain benefit of stiff tensioners.
When the cheap tensioners don't perfectly hold the chain slack, the timing jitter of the CPS/Cam and HPFP Valve kills exact ECU timings. This is extremely touchy to get to next improvement stage: SMOOTH TIMINGS.
> DISCOUNT....
Do you want less pain, more bang?
Do B1 tensioner only!!
B2 cams work way less. Wait on B2
> GDI Cam lobes?
- If you have HPFP on Bank1: change tensioner!
- If legacy injection do this when convenient.
The limp tensioners are USELESS MISSING without good oil to hold against lobes pushes. Good tensioners are ratcheting. Zero rattle drama.
Does that logic help you optimize your fixes?
+++ BOSCH TAILORED CYL PARAMETERS +++
You know how nothings ever perfects enough?
All cylinders are never exactly similar because of air intake, position away from pump.... our Bosch computer tailors to each cylinder mixture specifically. It uses a higher resolution flywheel to calculate timing deviations per cylinders. The last thing you want is ECU to detune too many of your cylinders.
ECU cant make up for all extreme mechanical conditions... need extra-stiff chain tensioners to hold camshafts jerkiness.
++++ FORGIVENESS .... viscosity your friend ++++
-- We are seeking nearly smooth timings ...
-- thus we are using oil pump to give us pressure... duh
-- VISCOSITY helps pressure by oil not bleeding out of TENSIONERS and VVT under HPFP torture lobes.
Meaning use viscosity to make up for tired leaky tensioners.... that's your 5mn FIX (This is just like snake oil to quiet noisy lifters).
Bump up oil to cheat a little and you'll see more smoothness!!
EASY TEST : Use a shot of honey for a couple hundreds of miles before oil swap
-- the best is NOT to have thinner oil that leak internally under working pressure. Thin oil is a freaking joke.
+++ MOD is anti-KILLER WHAT ??? ++++
Ok we've seen tensioner tend to get limp under poor conditions carefully setup... great.
Now what happens?
The tensioner forward seal is also the shaft guide. The more the shaft rams back into tensioner, the weaker seal gets.
Using low pressure gurantees this to happen sooner than later.
Meaning when you MOD oil pressure, help yourself to a B1 tensioner and viscosity to regain benefit of stiff tensioners.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-01-2024 at 08:04 PM.
#1139
#1140
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 6,276
Likes: 3,884
From: Silicon Valley
MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
INACTION IS ACTION
You're right, it maybe best not to do anything. So many cars on the road are ok. All the bad one already at the shop
The following users liked this post:
Lotty (03-01-2024)
#1141
The TSB for the error code request to do an additional check, basically to measure there is oil pressure in the engine. If there is, it advises to IGNORE the error and leave it alone.
Retrospectively, MB has taken a big chance if the error is due to say "poor internal contact" (something they cannot check unless the oil pan is removed and visually checked). Let us say that out of nowhere the contact is restored --> Time bomb becomes live and able to detonate in the future.
If the solenoid is externally unplugged, there is absolutely NO chance the solenoid activates/reconnects on its own.
The following 2 users liked this post by JCM_MB:
CaliBenzDriver (03-01-2024),
Lotty (03-01-2024)
#1142
My Scanner "Prodiag" get the same info like Xentry, if i click try to open valve = 90% but voltage are still = 0%
Then better to unplugg
Then better to unplugg
Last edited by Lotty; 03-01-2024 at 08:42 PM.
#1143
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 5,404
Likes: 2,017
From: Maryland, United States
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Unplugging is putting the solenoid in an unpowered or default state, whether you define that as open or closed. The default state is a fail-safe state and DOES NOT restrict oil pressure artificially to 2 bar at engine speeds below 3500 rpm. As Cali said, if the wire is broken (how'd that happen?), it could momentarily touch the conducting parts again, causing the solenoid to momentarily activate. It's doubtful that the wire is completely severed.
The following 3 users liked this post by JettaRed:
#1145
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,877
Likes: 698
04 E55 AMG (totaled), 07 S550 4Matic, 14 E63S
.
As far as stored winter cars.... when you regularly start the engine wait for things to warm up then use your MOD PRIVILEGE:
Gently raise idle to 2000.RPM to squirt your cylinders all lubed up.
There's No need to go up to 3500 RPM to get oil onto your cylinder walls - what a concept
As far as stored winter cars.... when you regularly start the engine wait for things to warm up then use your MOD PRIVILEGE:
Gently raise idle to 2000.RPM to squirt your cylinders all lubed up.
There's No need to go up to 3500 RPM to get oil onto your cylinder walls - what a concept
#1147
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 5,404
Likes: 2,017
From: Maryland, United States
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
#1148
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 6,276
Likes: 3,884
From: Silicon Valley
MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
#1149
did u use this connector once with Pins or without? Because i use the same connector + Pins in there to delete the exhaust valve without error or cel.
https://www.shadowmotor.com.tw/en/pr...de-Module.html
Last edited by Lotty; 03-02-2024 at 07:33 AM.
#1150
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 5,404
Likes: 2,017
From: Maryland, United States
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Hi Jetta,
did u use this connector once with Pins or without? Because i use the same connector + Pins in there to delete the exhaust valve without error or cel.
https://www.shadowmotor.com.tw/en/pr...de-Module.html
did u use this connector once with Pins or without? Because i use the same connector + Pins in there to delete the exhaust valve without error or cel.
https://www.shadowmotor.com.tw/en/pr...de-Module.html