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And to note… everything that I have found an out 229.5 has to adhere to stringent standards of fuel economy. Funny thing is that 600 hp/700 lbs ft and fuel economy do not mix - at least to me (and as I said a page or two back, it is pretty amazing that MB was able to pull it off - but also at the expense of longevity).
I think it's the oil additives that enable our engine to run dry pistons in aluminum cylinders for a pretty long time - Redline uses conventional oiling with max available pressure ~60psi.
We've seen the piston sprayers test at 60Psi max pressure are fairly slow at removing heat.
I am curious to understand why or what blows up the cylinders closest to the oil pump on non MOD'ed engines - Do we know ??
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-28-2024 at 05:39 PM.
The variant 229.51/52 are variations from there, but at least is an entry point for further research. MB229.5 -> European specifications + Daimler extensions (I guess that is where the unknown comes in)
Interesting that 229.51 and 229.52 are not in the approved column for the M276/M278, and others. Very misleading/confusing to use that nomenclature.
If you have a warranty that could be in jeopardy, then I probably wouldn’t deviate (though how would they know really, right?). If you’re having the car serviced by MB, you’re going to get 229.5 - it’s standardized throughout their dealer/service network.
Safe to say though that a better oil is out there especially for the turbo cars. To me fuel conservation and lubrication just don’t mix.
Oh, and the low ash count is especially important to diesel engines that really on after treatment of the combustion gases. Since most are now DI, that’s probably where some of the language comes in, though don’t hold me to that. Gasoline relies on the catalytic converter to handle treatment - premium carrier fuels are probably more important here than the actual oil, but that’s just my somewhat educated opinion.
**Not my intention to turn this into an oil discussion - was mainly concerned about mixing oils.
***Do what you think is right for your car and situation. My points are not meant to persuade anyone into modifying and go outside of MB specs - this is what I am doing with my car, and I accept the risks.
Lubrizol tells us what each spec is about... It seems to me MB wants clean burning oils. MB229.5 Specifications
Even lubrizol description is incomplete... I don't see the list of special additives... trade-secret?
I bet it's the same secret list as BMW to do the same work.
Everybody has a favorite oil they trust for performance. I choose to only tune-up one viscosity parameter to make-up for under reved pump.
The oil winners here are likely AMSOIL users of a superior oil with robust viscosity. As long as oil is sprayed it does not burn so it is able to go the distance in great shape.
Again today NO FAN after driving on highway and city for about 150Mi. Very solid performance unaffected by heat well controlled.
As far as mixing oils: only mix similar group III products or whatever is your favorite base oil.
Engine hydraulics are sensitive to viscosity... boost little by little.
COOL...
FAN STOPPED IN WINTER... SAVES GAS ?
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-28-2024 at 09:29 PM.
I’ll look at this from my workstation tomorrow (closed caption translator to follow), but a quick look at the comments section (translated to English) points to a lack of lubrication/low viscosity that resulted in damage/destruction.
This emissions reducing parasitic drag reducing bs is where the problems lie.
I’ll look at this from my workstation tomorrow (closed caption translator to follow), but a quick look at the comments section (translated to English) points to a lack of lubrication/low viscosity that resulted in damage/destruction.
This emissions reducing parasitic drag reducing bs is where the problems lie.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Originally Posted by Lotty
Oha u can translate this Video:
Start 19.05min. If you get enough time watch full video
Interesting video. So, he thinks the full (normal) oil pressure is too high for the automatic chain tensioners? I can see how he concludes that, but how does that jibe with Mercedes' instructions in the TIPS document to ignore failure of a non-essential part? Plus, we are not at full pressure while at idle, but rather the pressure is linear. I'm more inclined to believe the sudden jump from 2 bar to 4 bar at 3500 rpm is more damaging to the chain tensioner than the gradual, linear increase.
If that engine failure was due to lack of lubrication, I'm inclined to keep the solenoid disconnected. He did allude to using a higher viscosity oil. But does higher viscosity indicate greater oil pressure? His conclusions were confusing to me.
When I measured my oil pressure using the process described in WIS with the solenoid disconnected, I reached maybe 50 psi or 3.5 bar, but it was a smooth increase. I was using Mobil 1 0W-40 oil.
EDIT: Actually, I reached my max oil pressure at 1500 rpm, where it remained. This was at a stand-still and in Park, with no load on the engine. Not sure if driving would make a difference.
Well now it's on the Mercedes tech only page.
I can't imagine someone in there position putting there 'blessing' on this mod however.
That would kind of be like politicians recognizing their own corruption LOL
Well now it's on the Mercedes tech only page.
I can't imagine someone in there position putting there 'blessing' on this mod however.
That would kind of be like politicians recognizing their own corruption LOL
The only official answer to expect is a social finger, high up!
Bosch can engineer its own disruption but not the other way around. I doubt the giant will change course anytime soon.
Look at what happen to defiant Boeing CEO obstructing NTSB investigations... Each entity plays its own partition.
Fake self-certification is not going to get fixed because no one is accountable for failures nor wants to alter a generous business model.
Boeing sources everything from independent suppliers: fuselage, engines, wings, tail... they don't want to be responsible for QA testing or certifying supply-chain.
I wonder how long the wing composite material can last... long enough to fly old airplanes to South America. Same thing with dry lubed cars... long enough to squeeze every dime out of owners.
Now we have options to meet personal choices.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-29-2024 at 05:11 PM.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Originally Posted by CaliBenzDriver
Great! Your 700Mi oil is in low mileage condition.
-- Go drive 25Mi around town for now to train the new base RPM parameters. Freeway possible but not part of quick retraining.
The wife has been driving the car and she only notices things when I move the seat or change the radio station or adjust the mirrors, but I got to drive it today. I did withdraw and replaced about half of the mixture I put in, so I'm probably closer to 300 ml of 15W-50 in about 6200 ml of 0W-40. It's likely my imagination due to Cali's voodoo, but the car (C350) does seem more responsive at low speeds and still accelerates as quickly as ever at highway speeds. I'm several thousand miles away from my next oil change, but I look forward to changing to a 5W-40.
The wife has been driving the car and she only notices things when I move the seat or change the radio station or adjust the mirrors, but I got to drive it today. I did withdraw and replaced about half of the mixture I put in, so I'm probably closer to 300 ml of 15W-50 in about 6200 ml of 0W-40.
It's likely my imagination due to Cali's voodoo, but the car (C350) does seem more responsive at low speeds and still accelerates as quickly as ever at highway speeds. I'm several thousand miles away from my next oil change, but I look forward to changing to a 5W-40.
Do you like the incredible accelerator pedal torque??
That's solid VVT positioning + sealed pistons helping to balance cyl. contributions. Our engine multi-core ECU tunes every individual injector live.
With proper pressure it's a different engine. All the missing laggy power is back at 900.RPM all the way to 6k: plain simple!
From this we learn the ECU/TCU are super sensitive to oil viscosity. Exactly the issue MOD2.1 addresses!!
I can tell you what I know and warn you about what I don't know....hence my cautious advice not to MOD anything
I have no experience back tracking from any MOD to MB stock limited oiling. I am pretty confident the engine won't like it. I have zero interest or thoughts of climbing back out of superior driveability.
The engine has superior response because there is no need to spin faster to get more kick from GDI. Sealed tensioners necessary if MOD2.1 pressure not enough for leaky tensioners.
> LOOKING BACK... :
-- This whole low pressure scheme is what chews up VVT lock-pin at driving RPM. We evidenced the stock setup keeps VVT in the mud up to near 3000.RPM
lock-unlock-lock-unlock... : rattling $$$$.
-- Providing working pressure at driving RPM to VVT is what enables torque. That means engine needs MOD2.1 for the real-deal.
To adjust booster mix ratio...
use cluster temp gauges (liar gauge?!) or
witness when the fan quits being needed ie. normal piston cooling. Adjust little by little at a time better than one shot.
This mix level provides working pressure for all hydraulics.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-29-2024 at 07:10 PM.
I got a different Engine but i will get my Dummy until next "own" Service too. Again i will check like every time the Oilfilter. Last time was clear not even 1 Crumb or something with Plugin + Error and minimal mv. on solenoid. if next time my Oilfilter clean as usual.I leave everything like that and forget everything and move on happily. For testing i plug back to org. solenoind for 1 day and now back to dummy. I feel cold starts and common drive ups are smoooother. I saw M270/4 Motors with 250tkm+ with the same oil mechnaics construction like M133 and P06DA00 Errors. Perhaps without this Error will be hard to reach 200+ tkm for 2l Engine My AMG MECHANIC like this modification now too.... but if i want he will repair this for free ...not even for free i will repair this.
Much smoother now wtf i never notice before. Today i Run again 295km/H and fck them all on Autobahn I love it
I got a different Engine but i will get my Dummy until next "own" Service too. Again i will check like every time the Oilfilter. Last time was clear not even 1 Crumb or something with Plugin + Error and minimal mv. on solenoid. if next time my Oilfilter clean as usual.I leave everything like that and forget everything and move on happily. For testing i plug back to org. solenoind for 1 day and now back to dummy. I feel cold starts and common drive ups are smoooother. I saw M270/4 Motors with 250tkm+ with the same oil mechnaics construction like M133 and P06DA00 Errors. Perhaps without this Error will be hard to reach 200+ tkm for 2l Engine My AMG MECHANIC like this modification now too.... but if i want he will repair this for free ...not even for free i will repair this.
Much smoother now wtf i never notice before. Today i Run again 295km/H and fck them all on Autobahn I love it
OUCH! DO NOT GO BACK AND FORTH :
STOCK-MOD-STOCK-MOD >>> NIET!
The ECU/TCU takes many kilimeters to learn the new engine timings and shift points at normal city driving RPM... not 300km/h.
Been using 5w50 for over 6 years now on stock and fully built. Actually 8 years, the pendemic killed my time frame. 750 plus wheel hp on stock setup. And 1,k hp daily driven. Using 3500-4k miles intervals with oil changes. I do check walls every time I change plugs just to see if anything is standing out, or if a cylinder looks on the wet side with oil blow by. Happy to report neither.
Recently on my cousins cls 63 big turbo built engine, he was running 0-40 mobile. We noticed he would have oil consumption requiring a quart of oil between oil changes and when driven hard sometimes more. Compressor blades had some oil residue which is common with blow by from hot thin oil that breaks down easy flowing through the pcv. But since switching to 5w50. These issues have almost stopped. I say almost because it's slightly consuming oil but it's not showing other then slightly lower level. I think it's being used during hard WOT pulls. Also After cleaning compressor blades we now keep an eye on them and see no oil residue buildup, no cold start oil blow by, oil temps much more stable and so far it's been 4 oil changes since switching to 5w50 and no additional oil has been needed between oil changes. My point is you don't need to give it much thought to step away from 0w40.
The myth the legend M157 power king haha
do you have your engine plugged or unplugged?
[QUOTE=5soko;8947734]The myth the legend M157 power king haha
do you have your engine plugged or unplugged?[/QUOTE
lol mr tcu! Lol. Actually im not. I don't have any signs of scoring and all my cooling has kept my temps consistent low. I've always ran a thicker oil that I know has paid off big time in my engines protection. So at this time I see no need. I do appreciate the data and the information that I'm seeing tho.
Finally had a chance to watch through the engine failure video.
Catastrophic failures like that come from a failure of the lubrication system. The engine had been worked on previously so who knows what really happened there. It would’ve good to see an update once he’s been into it more.
Some have commented that on that video saying we’re idiots for unplugging the solenoid. The solenoid is only meant for the reduction of parasitic loses meant to increase economy - MB says this much. The engine runs high oil pressure on demand as needed via ECU parameters (interesting too that some commenters say the ECU monitors pressures and adjusts - I’d like to know how it does this without a pressure sensor).
That engine ate itself because it lost oil lubrication. The rod bearing caps were blue from overheating. The solenoid isn’t going to do that unless it somehow completely blocked the oil passage (can it do that if it hung up?).
I don't know german, had read some comments about that video but to me he's flat out wrong. my basis as a mechanic on the mod is it is fine, and even mercedes can't be bothered to fix the solenoid if it failed, and once I get my car going for the summer I'm going to disconnect it. The solenoid is there only for fuel economy, that's it. They are looking for every little bit of savings, 0.25% here, 0.5% here and there, it all adds up, look at our trans with the blue lower friction oil, its all to try and improve efficiencies. engine oils are going to 0w-10...? It's like water!
The pressure relief will do its job, like any normal engine.
The only thing I could *maybe* seeing this cause an issue is if you have the older tensioners/timing chains that are known to wear out fast/er. that this *may* cause them to wear out sooner. maybe 20% faster. OR maybe they won't because they'll have more lube on them all the time and kept cooler?. Because they'll be under more tension at all times.
Once I read that the piston cooling nozzles don't come on until ... 25? 30 psi was it? (i forget) To me that's your slam dunk on the scoring. We are all cruising down the highway, the 7 speed. my cars parked so I half forget but I think at 100km/hr my car runs like ~1100 rpm?? 1200? So not only are my cylinders, pistons, not having the lubrication they should, they'll be a bit hotter too., which is where Most the time these engines spend their time right? were driving down the roads, seldom on the throttle. So even if It down shifts a gear or 2, I'm getting more power, oil pressure is still low because I haven't hit 3k rpm.... your pistons now pushing on the cylinder walls harder with no additional lubrication....
it just makes sense. You won't have any failure from unplugging it because of additional oil pressure, if you did, it was gonna happen anyways. or lack of lube is more likely.
Quick tip… you can turn on closed captioning translated to English (or whatever language that’s native to you) to see what’s being said.
There was some reference to an SLS failure and an idler shaft failure - the 276/278/157 engines use this same part. It uses a brass bushing/bearing - his thought was that increased oil pressure caused the tensioner to increase pressure on this part. There is no way - no way that this caused the catastrophic failure (wasn’t sure he was saying that but some commenters were). The bearing probably failed because of all the crab being slung in that engine as it was eating itself.
03-28-2024, 05:18 PM
Service too. Again i will check like every time the Oilfilter. Last time was clear not even 1 Crumb or something with Plugin + Error and minimal mv. on solenoid. if next time my Oilfilter clean as usual.I leave everything like that and forget everything and move on happily. For testing i plug back to org. solenoind for 1 day and now back to dummy. I feel cold starts and common drive ups are smoooother. I saw M270/4 Motors with 250tkm+ with the same oil mechnaics construction like M133 and P06DA00 Errors. Perhaps without this Error will be hard to reach 200+ tkm for 2l Engine 
