kevm14

I don't believe there is a gas pedal method to reset wet clutch adaptations. Nor is there a gas pedal method for shift adaptations (i.e. fill rate). I believe the gas pedal method is only a reset of the drive style based adaptations.

BDC90

Ah ha well that makes sense. Time to connect My new Xentry from Benzninja and figure out how to do it.

PeterUbers

agreed - wet clutch can only be readapted with xentry. This is for wet clutch adaptation, not tcu adaptation.

this is totally different than the "pedal dance" to reset the tcu adaptations.

CaliBenzDriver

Ok, I got serious news to celebrate about GDI power.
I could not be happier about the limitless torque my 3.5-NA poney now puts out. Its developed differently than before.
I can only imagine the sort of violence this would bring to a flipping turbo V8.


You need the GDI timings to be enabled willfully by the ECU. I've got a stupid honest box, no reason other mint setup with similar conditions should not have this show up.

ECU improvements are incremental, the gas pedal speaks for the ECU work.
I can tell my rig is improving when it puts out more power without me asking. Just like the brakes becoming touchy: thanks to sealed blow-by travelling a virtuous journey.

My fresh set of Conti are not going to grow old.


> STATUS:
-- Lambda originals and coated with gallons of oil.
-- Stock PCV/ HPFP /ECU /TCU.
++ (Soldered ISM)
-- 58kMi V6-NAspirated
++ 2500.Mi amber oil
++ MOD2.1 on MOTUL
-- Stock CPS, VVT Solenoids
++ Fresh Bosch polished plugs and
++ Fresh boots
-- Stock coils
++ Fresh polished 2x tensioners
-- Stock oil check-valves
-- Vacuum pump check valves good
++ GDI "Diesel style" idle timings
++ Good ALT voltage, good GND's.
-+ Costco gasoline
-+ 722.9P 15kMi-ATF
++ RWD Diff magnet fresh oil
++ Massaged computers (ESP),
++ Regular chassis reboots.


My lemon had been smoking oil reliably for the past 10 years..., now it is temperature regulated and my garage stays cold no matter what.

OMG... : the GDI torque at 3500.RPM feels like redline power except it far from that... I think tranny is shifting around where both torque and power cross. ECU/TCU now do a great job at managing RPM instead of weirdo short gear shifts.

The long story is ECU is able to spray more gas more efficiently in GDI Mode. Now this MB is worthy.

kevm14

So at hot idle I still have a little bit of that "MCT shudder." Of course I learned through this thread that it wasn't clutch shudder; it was unsmooth engine operation at very low rpms due to insufficient oil pressure at the cam adjusters. This means increasing oil viscosity (and thus pressure) a bit during hot idle may be beneficial to further enhance engine operation.

That said, I really don't think it is a good idea to mix a random, thicker oil. As someone else mentioned, this is generally a bad practice because additive packages can be (and are) incompatible. Believe it or not but a better approach would probably be to use a more general purpose viscosity improver that isn't designed to be engine oil by itself (and thus may have fewer additives to be incompatible with the main engine oil). I'm talking about Lucus products and other oil thickening products. I'm not ready to pour anything like that into my M157 but I think it's a conversation worth having.

I also would like to see if simply an oil change is enough to bump up viscosity (it very well may be).

Or, maybe there is something in the 5W-50 range. Or 10W-60.

TomZVB

That's what I've been saying... for long term operation (and to quote Chris Rock): "man, I wouldn't do that **** if I was you."

And while we're talking about oil, have a look at what Lake Speed Jr had to say about Mobil 1 0w40:


It's about as 30 weight as a 40 weight can get 🤔 More of the, "man, I wouldn't do that **** if I was you," mindset.

kevm14

Yeah, I had been running that in my S550 (M273) with fine results but just switched to Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W-40 which is most likely much better oil (meets API SP for LSPI + is 229.5). And it was super cheap fulfilled by Walmart.com. Sticking with MolyGen 5W-40 on my E63 until someone convinces me otherwise.

TomZVB

Once warm mine does not shudder at all, and the only time I do get any shudder, post unplug, is when I've finished backing out of the driveway and then pull away in 2nd (comfort) - it only does it that once and is fine for the rest of the day.

TomZVB

I think the M157 will run really well on a good 50w as pointed out earlier in the thread via member CifDig's experience. Can't say I'd do the same with the M27x engines unless they're driven very hard (most probably are not), but I would for sure find a different oil to use instead of 0w-40 Mobil One Euro.

kevm14

Castrol EDGE comes in a 5W-50. And is API SN+ which covers LSPI. Good enough for the Ford GT apparently.

JettaRed

iTrader: (1)

WRT mixing different viscosities, I agree a different multi-viscosity oil is probably better. And I would trust the Lucas stuff. But I did find that mixing different viscosities of the same brand was not viewed as particularly harmful. That said, I will be switching to a 5W-40 at the next oil changes.

kevm14

The brand alone is not good enough. The add pack strategy can vary by the spec the oil is trying to meet. Now if we were comparing two oils of the same brand, that both meet 229.5, and one is a 0W-40 and the other is a 5W-40, that seems reasonable.

SouthSideE63S

Just Hit 130k yesterday going to Indiana for the eclipse. Couple of pointers I would like to share. I have been burning oil at a faster rate for a while guess the previous owner never took care of it enough or did something bad. The engine has been scoped and I do not have any bore scoring thankfully been unplugged since this thread started so back in Nov I believe. Now here is the best part. I have tried molygen and ceratec together still burned oil. I have also tried heavier weighted oil at 5w-50 molygen aswell which still burned pretty fast. But after trying a bunch of oils and different recipes of concoctions I found here there is only one thing has worked so far. I just put fresh 8100 power 5w40 by Motul which still burned pretty fast as well until I added BG MOA and viola that fixed my oil burning problems. I believe so far this is the only formula I know that has worked. I know BG products have been used here in the past but I wanted someone's opinion as well would it be a good idea to do the BG engine oil flush after unplugging just to start from fresh.

JettaRed

iTrader: (1)

Engine flushes scare the hell out of me on turbo cars, but on an NA engine, maybe not so bad. I never want to run the risk of damaging the turbos.

TomZVB

I'm not a fan of engine flushes either. Perhaps a little bit of transmission fluid for the detergent benefit and a light drive around the block but that's it.

MOA increases the viscosity according to info over on BobIsTheOilGuy. I think you'd be better off with a 5w50 and maybe verify that you're not sucking/burning oil through the turbos or via PCV.


Just my thoughts.

CaliBenzDriver

The video above describes the 0w40 oil viscosity lab testing as being a heavy w35 oil even before any aging. It quickly becomes a 10w30 to save more gas.
People on Mob1 "0w40" with high sludge building calcium have an opportunity to test MOD1.1 before upgrading to fresh oil. Nothing to loose!

Dry-lube additives are still there working regardless of the low viscosity.

Thin old 0w40 + (3 to 500ml of 15w50) =

Mr. Speed Jr. oil test cuts through marketing fluff to describes low viscosity. I directly translate that in poor spray-cool below 3000.RPM just what MOD2.1 offsets.

There maybe better Group-III "honey" available to nudge viscosity level. I am currently satisfied adding an unsignificant amount 500ml to 8 Liters.

As long as the base oil has the ZDP additives, we are adding more polymers chains to it.
​​​​​​I am just correcting borderline low viscosity making sure not to go overboard for great driveability.

Heavy w50 oil grade are going to spray-cool guaranteed but then are not on the "approved list" limited to w40 grade.
There are not many good choices... a group-III 15w40 non-diesel would be welcome.


> Not too low and not too high:
Overall the best choice is not to replace OEM chaos with our own.

I carefully change as little as possible in a controlled fashion to GET BULLSEYE ON TARGET.

TomZVB

The approved list (229.5 spec) is for fuel economy and extreme oil change interval purposes. Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE - and whatever the Euro spec is called) is the reasoning behind such a stringent specification. An oil that can provide a very good antiwear and detergent package while preventing low rpm pre-ignition is where it's at.


From MOTUL's site regarding the specification of engine for Mercedes 229.5 (taken from specs for their 8100 X-Cess 5w40 synthetic:

"The MERCEDES MB 229.5 standard is more stringent than 229.3 in terms of ageing and oil film resistance (extended drain
interval: on-board computer), detergent/dispersant power (ACEA B4) and requests fuel economy performance: 1.7% fuel
economy improvement versus a 15W-40 reference."

- extended oil drain interval
- fuel economy performance
- and in case anyone is interested - the ACEA B4 provides the spec usage in GDI engines - low ash/pre-ignition.


I have no interest in fuel economy at the expense of longevity.

I like this much better.... from MOTULS 8100 Power 5w50 synthetic - Ester:

"STANDARDS API PERFORMANCE SP
PERFORMANCES FORD WSS-M2C931-D

ESTER Technology: 100% Synthetic formula derived from competition and based on Ester ensuring outstanding oil film
resistance at very high temperatures for maximum engine power and torque, as well as maximum wear protection. Stable
oil pressure whatever the conditions of use, road or racing.

Turbocharged gasoline engines with direct injection have a certain risk of sporadic pre-ignition phenomena in the combustion chambers. This type of sporadic abnormal combustion resembles metallic noise from combustion chambers and is sometimes associated with a short power loss. This phenomenon called LSPI for Low Speed Pre-Ignition, or also Rumble, generates very high pressure peaks in the combustion chamber that can lead to piston damages and ultimately to engine destruction.

For their latest-generation downsized gasoline engines, which are equipped with direct injection systems and turbochargers, API has developed the API SP standard for engine lubricants in order to guarantee the perfect integrity of these gasoline engines facing the risk of these abnormal combustions.

The API SP standard is fully backward compatible over API SN requirements and all former API standards. API SP lubricants provide outstanding oxidation resistance, better anti-deposits protection, better engine cleanliness, anti-wear protection and enhanced performance at cold temperature for Fuel Economy savings during the whole oil life span.

Besides being backward compatible, compare to API SN and API SN Plus, the API SP standard provides higher performance and especially adds more protection against LSPI phenomenon for downsized direct injection turbocharged gasoline
engines.

MOTUL 8100 POWER 5W-50 meets all these very highly demanding requirements of performance and durability, including in particular for API SP standard, the full compatibility to biofuels use such as LPG (Liquefied Petroleum Gas), CNG (Compressed Natural Gas), and Bioethanol (as available at the station), when using Ethanol Biofuel at a mix ratio of up to 85% (Bioethanol – E85).

The FORD WSS-M2C931-D specification requires the lubricant to be both API SN Plus and 5W-50 in order to perfectly lubricate certain high-performance FORD Gasoline engines such as Focus RS 2.3 EcoBoost AWD and Ford GT produced from 2016, and Mustang GT350, GT350R from 2018.

FORD WSS-M2C931-D specification also covers previous versions, i.e. FORD WSS-M2C931-C and 931-B recommended for the Ford Mustang GT V8 5.0L, Boss 302 V8 5.0L, Mustang GT350 from 2015 and Shelby GT500 from 2006; and FORD WSS-M2C931-A recommended for the Ford GT V8 5.4L from 2004-2006.

MOTUL 8100 POWER 5W-50 allows excellent oil flow into the engine and is particularly resistant to high temperatures to allow better control of oil consumption and provide higher wear protection. Its optimized high viscosity grade SAE 5W-50 brings maximum reliability to your engine and high protection against fuel dilution."


You're not going to find the above in any 229.5 spec oil.



The oil combined with the two-stage oiling mechanism is what wastes these engine.


Respectfully, TZ

CaliBenzDriver

You know Tom, you bring us a very good use case.
I think 5W50 Motul or equivalent can be put to great use.


Here the long story short...
The w50 is too viscous BUT WE do have a half-pressure Ace up our sleeve.

I would say W50 is definitely not compatible with MOD1 BUT PERFECT FOR STOCK MOD0 = 2bars!

Do reconnect pump solenoid to half your pressure with viscous oil.

Your superior viscosity has a chance to spray-cool on "low pressure" - That's when stock can be good.

Where you'll raise concern is with people afraid of jamming 60.Psi pressure relief ball on spring.

You know if your engine is clean not much piston alloy specs should get circulated. I always think cleaning the oil pan could be beneficial.


I could not agree more about the oil "gas savings" being cheap practice to turn on Penny pinchers.

kevm14

Some comparisons.

MolyGen 5W-40
https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pdf/en_US/liqui/58/P001758

Castrol Edge 5W-50
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/253D34BD9655E09680258A2F00453904/$File/WEPP-CVUN2W.pdf

Motul 8100 5W-50
https://azupim01.motul.com/media/mot...4_20230502.pdf

This Motul does look really good on paper here.

Viscosity @ 100C for MolyGen is 14.5 mm^2/s
For Castrol it is 16.7
For Motul it is 17.9

16.7 is only 0.4 above the stated max for a -40 grade oil shown in the chart above. 17.9 is way higher. I'd probably be more comfortable starting with the Castrol, considering this is a street driven vehicle. That said, without actually measuring oil pressure it's all guesswork.

jcarsnz

Great insight here by people who know their oil (unlike me).

When I first collected my ML63 the dealer (non-MB) had just completed an oil change with Castrol Edge 0W-40, from what I've read it's a fantastic oil, but after 3k km's I had the lower timing cover replaced under warranty which included new M1 0W-40... wow what a difference, above 3k rpm the engine was noticeably smoother and more responsive. You couldn't pay me enough to return to Castrol in this application. I realize M1 may not be the 'best' oil for the M157 but with reduced OCI's I'm happy to stick with it for now (I see @S-Prihadi endorsed it recently to - some useful confirmation bias!)

Also, I'm disconnected for over 3k km's now, no issues to report, only change I have noticed from Day 1 is the high idle cold starts are running at about 15 seconds vs 25 seconds originally. 6 monthly oil change is due next month, planning to send a sample for analysis.

kevm14

Somehow the editing function is removed now?? Anyway, I wanted to add that the Castrol Edge 5W-50 that I am referring to is the Supercar variant that meets the same Ford specs as the Motul. It also appears that sourcing it may be very difficult.

PeterUbers

hey! I'm glad you said something - I can't edit my sticky anymore and I asked a moderator @MJ50 but he wasn't aware of any changes ... something is off - this has been going on for 2 weeks or more

kevm14

It looks like it's time based. After a certain amount of time since the post you can no longer edit. Hopefully this was unintended and they can fix.

JettaRed

iTrader: (1)

A lot of people have lost the ability to edit. You need to get a paid membership ($4.99/six months). I have a paid membership and have full edit functions.




EDIT

kenneyd

This is bull crap