Oil pump solenoids
MBWorld God!
Joined: Dec 2019
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I forgot to post on the 1 year thread anniversary. But last year, I posted this and then had to put the car away before I could put many miles on it. Here we are with below freezing temps finally hitting the northeast and I am faced with having to put the car away, again. This time, the FOMO is triggered from the 5W-50 discussion. I'll be due for an oil change next spring-ish and will have to defer my gratification until then. Meanwhile I can live vicariously through posts on the results.
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 3,495
From: Maryland
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Remember what the driver behind corporate decisions is: COMPLIANCE, not optimized performance or longevity. The 2-stage oil pump is strictly to optimize fuel economy because of regulatory (political) mandates. Since negative effects usually show outside the warranty period, it becomes an added perk for the manufacturer to get the income from repairs. Same thing for the ECO Start/Stop function, which also should be disabled.
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 3,495
From: Maryland
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 3,495
From: Maryland
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 3,495
From: Maryland
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Them be fighting words around here, I personally did not feel any significant difference and I've been unplugged for several months. Several other people reported they didn't feel any difference. There's no empiric data either way to know what this "modification" is doing or not doing.
On my SL400, I've been disconnected just over a year and 9000 miles. On my 2014 C350, it's been a year and 6500 miles. Both cars run great!
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 3,495
From: Maryland
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 3,495
From: Maryland
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
I was using Mobil 1 0W-40 at the time I made the recordings. This is oil pressure measured from the oil pressure test port on the engine near the oil filter housing, per the WIS.
Last edited by JettaRed; Nov 30, 2024 at 10:33 AM.
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Joined: Nov 2024
Posts: 47
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GLK350, SL500 (R230), E55 (w210)
Since I have both versions of the M276, I can definitively say that the change was more noticeable immediately on the NA version of the engine. I attribute that to the effects of turbocharging which masks the performance improvement. It is still there in terms of smooth delivery of power, just not as noticeable.
On my SL400, I've been disconnected just over a year and 9000 miles. On my 2014 C350, it's been a year and 6500 miles. Both cars run great!
On my SL400, I've been disconnected just over a year and 9000 miles. On my 2014 C350, it's been a year and 6500 miles. Both cars run great!
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Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,799
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2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ECU dyno tune; EDOK TCU tune; BB intakes; sprintbooster
I forgot to post on the 1 year thread anniversary. But last year, I posted this and then had to put the car away before I could put many miles on it. Here we are with below freezing temps finally hitting the northeast and I am faced with having to put the car away, again. This time, the FOMO is triggered from the 5W-50 discussion. I'll be due for an oil change next spring-ish and will have to defer my gratification until then. Meanwhile I can live vicariously through posts on the results.
cheers
MBWorld God!
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 32,217
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I give @kevm14 primary credit for driving this discussion that has literally gone worldwide and attracted the attention of legendary guys like Tasos
cheers
cheers
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2020
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04 E55 AMG (totaled), 07 S550 4Matic, 14 E63S
I give @kevm14 primary credit for driving this discussion that has literally gone worldwide and attracted the attention of legendary guys like Tasos
cheers
cheers
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 11,921
Likes: 6,769
From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
BETTER OILING PREVENTS WEAR !!
-- Oiling this engine class is a complex topic linked to performance.
-- Actual oil pressure is hardly linked to timings and LTFT.
-- How can sticky oil have such incredible impact with performance ??
> Where we were:
-- Earlier we saw drafty rings cause timing jitter that cause misfires that cause lean fuel maps that cause laggy weak throttle response.
-- Better oiling help clean and seal rings that smooth out timings thus fuel map... great!
> So what is the limit to that?
-- The limit is worn out cylinders that can not seal. That type of genuine unbalance can not be turned around with wet rings... shocks!
> So what's the deal then?
-- Here I am going to argue that your best chance to not get stuck with lean misfire and weak fuel maps is to preserve cylinders from wearing near TDC.
> So what can we do ?
-- The old proven way that works is viscous film.
... not diet thin oil for turbos !!!
-- Slick cylinders save gas at the expense of... cylinders wear.
-- Wet cylinders film prevent metal contact carving grooves.
Our best interest for longevity is to prevent cylinder wear - Duh!
Mobil1 Supercar is an excellent answer to prevent wear.
Worned out engines can not regain much improved timings - Switch to W50 protection at your own pace.
What best protects the cylinder bores is both molecular SN/SP chemistry + viscous film.
Lower viscosities disable film resilience.
... that's not all new, right?
-- Actual oil pressure is hardly linked to timings and LTFT.
-- How can sticky oil have such incredible impact with performance ??
> Where we were:
-- Earlier we saw drafty rings cause timing jitter that cause misfires that cause lean fuel maps that cause laggy weak throttle response.
-- Better oiling help clean and seal rings that smooth out timings thus fuel map... great!
> So what is the limit to that?
-- The limit is worn out cylinders that can not seal. That type of genuine unbalance can not be turned around with wet rings... shocks!
> So what's the deal then?
-- Here I am going to argue that your best chance to not get stuck with lean misfire and weak fuel maps is to preserve cylinders from wearing near TDC.
> So what can we do ?
-- The old proven way that works is viscous film.
... not diet thin oil for turbos !!!
-- Slick cylinders save gas at the expense of... cylinders wear.
-- Wet cylinders film prevent metal contact carving grooves.
Our best interest for longevity is to prevent cylinder wear - Duh!
Mobil1 Supercar is an excellent answer to prevent wear.
Worned out engines can not regain much improved timings - Switch to W50 protection at your own pace.
What best protects the cylinder bores is both molecular SN/SP chemistry + viscous film.
Lower viscosities disable film resilience.
... that's not all new, right?
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Nov 30, 2024 at 06:24 PM.
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 3,495
From: Maryland
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
I give @kevm14 primary credit for driving this discussion that has literally gone worldwide and attracted the attention of legendary guys like Tasos
cheers
cheers
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 11,921
Likes: 6,769
From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
not easy to connect these dots...
yes you are!
You hooked up with Master Tasos who crafted couple videos to answer your Q's
-- We started experimentions not knowing what we discovered later...
-- Back then most people were concerned about using normal oil pressure.
-- Nowadays we are cancelling lag with matched viscosity
I think Xentry shows some type of tracking of engine smoothness/jitter we are dealing - - Perhaps Master Surya can help us fish solid numbers straight from the ECU using Xentry ?
You hooked up with Master Tasos who crafted couple videos to answer your Q's
-- We started experimentions not knowing what we discovered later...
-- Back then most people were concerned about using normal oil pressure.
-- Nowadays we are cancelling lag with matched viscosity
I think Xentry shows some type of tracking of engine smoothness/jitter we are dealing - - Perhaps Master Surya can help us fish solid numbers straight from the ECU using Xentry ?
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Nov 30, 2024 at 05:53 PM.
MBWorld God!
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 7,847
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From: Maryland
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
By the way, another significant boost to the M276 NA engine seems to come from "upgrading" my oil to Castrol Edge 5W-50. I noticed today that the C350 seems more responsive than I remember. Since I don't drive it often (it's the wife's car), the improvement was more apparent. But the oil change effect is not like the solenoid was. The solenoid disconnect was immediate; my oil change was two weeks ago and probably about 400-500 miles ago. I will check the mileage tomorrow. It's dark and fricken cold in Maryland right now.
MBWorld God!
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 32,217
Likes: 6,276
By the way, another significant boost to the M276 NA engine seems to come from "upgrading" my oil to Castrol Edge 5W-50. I noticed today that the C350 seems more responsive than I remember. Since I don't drive it often (it's the wife's car), the improvement was more apparent. But the oil change effect is not like the solenoid was. The solenoid disconnect was immediate; my oil change was two weeks ago and probably about 400-500 miles ago. I will check the mileage tomorrow. It's dark and fricken cold in Maryland right now.
Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 102
Likes: 63
From: Tampa, Fl
2014 E550 Cab, 2009 CLK550 Cab, 2006 CLK350 Cab
I give @kevm14 primary credit for driving this discussion that has literally gone worldwide and attracted the attention of legendary guys like Tasos
cheers
cheers
thanks you 3 especially as well as all the others that have contributed!!!!
what a powerful forum.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 11,921
Likes: 6,769
From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
EASY DOES IT 👏
if you look back @kevm14 brought the issue to the AMG group on11/12/2023 meanwhile @S-Prihadi and @CaliBenzDriver had started looking at the data side of this around August 2022.. . . The three came together on 11/13/2023 and took the research to an exponentially growth level we have all benefited from. Many thanks to them for getting this going and continuing to refine as well as the countless others, that I can not name at the moment the have also contributed to this incredible improvement modification.
thanks you 3 especially as well as all the others that have contributed!!!!
what a powerful forum.
thanks you 3 especially as well as all the others that have contributed!!!!
what a powerful forum.
Many elements and efforts were contributed by a pool of savy team players.
MOD-0 Limited stock lubrication is amazin it even works...
Corrupted bottom fuel map appears as if our engines longevity is negatively impacted by reduced lube.
Our ECU controls are unable to manage marginal oiling rodeo well.
We can't extend the missing ECU logic to match the engine, so we match the engine to the ECU expectations!!
We can undo stock oil-game to restore missing engine driveability: MOD-4.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Nov 30, 2024 at 11:13 PM.
Member
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 111
Likes: 82
From: New Zealand
I don't have proof that skipping from 0w40 to 5w50 is detrimental to spun bearings, if you can take it easy.
> You will positively gain reduced cylinder blow-by right away but dirty rings will still be stuck.
> VVT Positioning will be somewhat confused for about 2500.RPM.
> Do not expect ECU/TCU to start acting like nothing happened during the oil upgrade. It's still going to take a good 2 or 3kMi to sort out.
Engine response will be unsettled initially... don't gun it, specially the tranny is going to be "like a deer in the headlights" confused not knowing what to do.
> You can monitor express upgrade with numbers:
-- measure cylinder compressions
-- plot relative compressions
-- Then based on results, you decide when is safe to open up heavy loads!
Meaning no WOT for 3kMi since you ask me.
> You like fast-track results... I suggest you consider ESTER oils in 5w40; 0w50; 15w50 API-SP staying away from heavy ZDDP "racing formula" to preserve Lambda/Cats unless cutout.
Why not run the cleaner 0W40 SP formula longer until it gets dark (1500.Mi) then upgrade it to your selected target.
Result will be delivered by improved viscosity meaning no performance improvement in 0w40 ballpark.
> You will positively gain reduced cylinder blow-by right away but dirty rings will still be stuck.
> VVT Positioning will be somewhat confused for about 2500.RPM.
> Do not expect ECU/TCU to start acting like nothing happened during the oil upgrade. It's still going to take a good 2 or 3kMi to sort out.
Engine response will be unsettled initially... don't gun it, specially the tranny is going to be "like a deer in the headlights" confused not knowing what to do.
> You can monitor express upgrade with numbers:
-- measure cylinder compressions
-- plot relative compressions
-- Then based on results, you decide when is safe to open up heavy loads!
Meaning no WOT for 3kMi since you ask me.
> You like fast-track results... I suggest you consider ESTER oils in 5w40; 0w50; 15w50 API-SP staying away from heavy ZDDP "racing formula" to preserve Lambda/Cats unless cutout.
Why not run the cleaner 0W40 SP formula longer until it gets dark (1500.Mi) then upgrade it to your selected target.
Result will be delivered by improved viscosity meaning no performance improvement in 0w40 ballpark.
Since I'm transitioning directly from M1 0W-40 SN @CaliBenzDriver has suggested I avoid WOT pulls for 3k miles, which I think is good advice.
First impressions: not much yet, only change I have observed is my oil temp was previously around 98C/208F after a half hour drive on a warm day, but seeing this now:
Early days I know... regardless, I will stick with 5W-50 for the added wear protection these engines deserve.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 11,921
Likes: 6,769
From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
Seat back and let the ECU tune-up your partially sealed engine while still dirty rings begin to improve.
Notice how both heads rapidly quiet out in less than 50Mi from SP chemistry.
This week driving will not be better until the weekend or 500Mi... then VVT positioning and TCU will be zeroed-in and fuel map will replace the missing bottom RPM's with rich torque at 900.Rpm.
Don't push it while it's confused.
Normal short trips are best.
The Turbo fuel map performance will benefit transitioning from neutral/rich 1500.Rpm.
Meaning: solid throttle from 900.Rpm and up
+++ I am surprised to see oil cooler than water... (engine idled, not driven?)
+++ You did cleanup your bypass valve, right? (if not you can still do so after oil change).
+++ Reset the IC Trip-Counter to track miles since oil change
Notice how both heads rapidly quiet out in less than 50Mi from SP chemistry.
This week driving will not be better until the weekend or 500Mi... then VVT positioning and TCU will be zeroed-in and fuel map will replace the missing bottom RPM's with rich torque at 900.Rpm.
Don't push it while it's confused.
Normal short trips are best.
The Turbo fuel map performance will benefit transitioning from neutral/rich 1500.Rpm.
Meaning: solid throttle from 900.Rpm and up
+++ I am surprised to see oil cooler than water... (engine idled, not driven?)
+++ You did cleanup your bypass valve, right? (if not you can still do so after oil change).
+++ Reset the IC Trip-Counter to track miles since oil change
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Dec 1, 2024 at 01:25 AM.
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 3,495
From: Maryland
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
MBWorld God!
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 32,217
Likes: 6,276
if you look back @kevm14 brought the issue to the AMG group on11/12/2023 meanwhile @S-Prihadi and @CaliBenzDriver had started looking at the data side of this around August 2022.. . . The three came together on 11/13/2023 and took the research to an exponentially growth level we have all benefited from. Many thanks to them for getting this going and continuing to refine as well as the countless others, that I can not name at the moment the have also contributed to this incredible improvement modification.
thanks you 3 especially as well as all the others that have contributed!!!!
what a powerful forum.
thanks you 3 especially as well as all the others that have contributed!!!!
what a powerful forum.
All the hard work by the aforementioned forum members are paid off and much much more!
Their product knowledge and expertise is greater than most salespersons and technicians and engineers at the dealership.
A forum is great because of the existence of such members, words cannot describe how thankful I am and please, again, allow me to express my greatest gratitude to all these members and please, everyone enjoy such prized gift from these members and enjoy them in good health!
