W212 AMG Discuss the W212 AMG's such as the E63

Oil pump solenoids

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Old 03-01-2024 | 02:23 PM
  #1126  
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Originally Posted by OldManAndHisCar
See, the problem is you are in PA and you have C as your temps....no wonder you have issues. Duh.
The car gets confused. It thinks everything is below freezing.
Old 03-01-2024 | 02:25 PM
  #1127  
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I have issues, not the car.
Old 03-01-2024 | 03:02 PM
  #1128  
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
simple engine correction

Originally Posted by BDC90
Cold start after sitting outside in 30 deg. for 2 hours. Apparently the oil didn't cool much from 50 deg temps inside garage. 3000ish miles since unplug.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVPPF2VVG2Q
I like the rhythms of these engine parts working together under ECU timing control.

Your engine sounds all good but not extraordinarily smooth so your improvements are stuck until smoothness returns.

This you have a chance to fix easily

You are now missing the whole chapter with rattlesnake free HPFP injection. That's where kick *** power is resumed with GDI multi-shot mixtures.

We can help you get towards that easily.

Your current oil is too thin for what Tensioners and VVT Gear needs. ​​​​​​It definitely needs a viscosity bump.

The winter oil viscosity impacts your VVT RPM not working low. They are a bit starved. That's why your start up RPM stays up waiting for pressure to build up to smooth CPS Timings. That should get halved.
Your car should shoot right into idle after sitting only 2hrs... this is a clue.

​​​​​​> REWORK:
1-- bump up oil grade: very easy
2-- new tensioners: easy
then you MAY have a smooth idle:
if your cylinders are going to seal.
if your twin bank fuel trims are balanced
given no mechanical damages spoil the party.

Old 03-01-2024 | 03:13 PM
  #1129  
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
LEAN TRIMS???

Originally Posted by OldManAndHisCar
Okay - Scanner on, no misfire on six - no changes what so ever to the car....


https://youtu.be/cBfUZZ19oRY
Your engine is working nicely besides a little fish bites. Awesome mechanical conditions.

-- Let's go read your fuel trims to see how efficient your engine run is.

-- Hint... I believe we are going to find a mild lean.

-- Fixing that will return lost power and additional engine driveability response.

Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-01-2024 at 03:15 PM.
Old 03-01-2024 | 03:21 PM
  #1130  
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Originally Posted by CaliBenzDriver
I like the rhythms of these engine parts working together under ECU timing control.

Your engine sounds all good but not extraordinarily smooth so your improvements are stuck until smoothness returns.

This you have a chance to fix easily

You are now missing the whole chapter with rattlesnake free HPFP injection. That's where kick *** power is resumed with GDI multi-shot mixtures.

We can help you get towards that easily.

Your current oil is too thin for what Tensioners and VVT Gear needs. ​​​​​​It definitely needs a viscosity bump.

The winter oil viscosity impacts your VVT RPM not working low. They are a bit starved. That's why your start up RPM stays up waiting for pressure to build up to smooth CPS Timings. That should get halved.
Your car should shoot right into idle after sitting only 2hrs... this is a clue.

​​​​​​> REWORK:
1-- bump up oil grade: very easy
2-- new tensioners: easy
then you MAY have a smooth idle:
if your cylinders are going to seal.
if your twin bank fuel trims are balanced
given no mechanical damages spoil the party.
The oil is due for a change in 1000 mi. The viscosity in the car now is 70% 0w-40 and 30% 5w-40 because that's what I had. The next change I have all 5w-40 available. The car had sat for 2 days in garage then run briefly to back out of garage, sat for 2 hours then the video was made. By tensioners do You mean the serpentine belt ?
Old 03-01-2024 | 03:23 PM
  #1131  
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Originally Posted by S-Prihadi
Is this an M156 E63 or M157 E63 ?
M156 is not a Direct Injection, correct ?

Wow....Its COLD start management is very different to M276 3.0 Turbo, which is Direct Injection and MED177 ECU family, which is the same family as M278 and M157, same DI injection system too.
The higher RPM of 900, after the 1,300 RPM is non existent in the video... so I cam curious if that is a port injection cold start strategy ?

This is how long my engine maintains its higher than idle RPM at COLD start and I am at 30C / 86F

7.14 data points is 1 second worth. Below is 120 seconds worth of capture. This is from Xentry VVT logging test.


About 50 seconds is the time my engine keep its higher than idle RPM , at a COLD start.
Data points 70 to 417 approx
Surya, is this capture after solenoid delete, right?

- What kind of oil viscosity grade are you running lately in Jakarta??

Here we can learn similarities between multiports and GDI at cold startup. ECU rushes into low RPM in open loop
Old 03-01-2024 | 03:38 PM
  #1132  
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
GOOD LUBE

Originally Posted by BDC90
The oil is due for a change in 1000 mi.
The viscosity in the car now is 70% 0w-40 and 30% 5w-40 because that's what I had.

The next change I have all 5w-40 available. The car had sat for 2 days in garage then run briefly to back out of garage, sat for 2 hours then the video was made. By tensioners do You mean the serpentine belt ?
This old oil is really too thin by now.
The good part about thin oil is it cleans both sides of the dirty piston ringset.
That is what we want: to seal blow-by before using 5 or 10w-40 oil to really seal rings.

As far as stored winter cars.... when you regularly start the engine wait for things to warm up then use your MOD PRIVILEGE:
Gently raise idle to 2000.RPM to squirt your cylinders all lubed up.
There's No need to go up to 3500 RPM to get oil onto your cylinder walls - what a concept
​​​​​​

Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-01-2024 at 03:40 PM.
Old 03-01-2024 | 03:44 PM
  #1133  
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Originally Posted by CaliBenzDriver
This old oil is really too thin by now.
The good part about thin oil is it cleans both sides of the dirty piston ringset.
That is what we want: to seal blow-by before using 5 or 10w-40 oil to really seal rings.

As far as stored winter cars.... when you regularly start the engine wait for things to warm up then use your MOD PRIVILEGE:
Gently raise idle to 2000.RPM to squirt your cylinders all lubed up.
There's No need to go up to 3500 RPM to get oil onto your cylinder walls - what a concept
​​​​​​
The car gets driven some during winter and when it does it gets the oil up to "white #'s" temp. The car rarely sits for more than 8-10 days. I have changed oil every 5k miles since purchase 6/23.
Old 03-01-2024 | 03:47 PM
  #1134  
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Originally Posted by BDC90
The oil is due for a change in 1000 mi. The viscosity in the car now is 70% 0w-40 and 30% 5w-40 because that's what I had. The next change I have all 5w-40 available. The car had sat for 2 days in garage then run briefly to back out of garage, sat for 2 hours then the video was made. By tensioners do You mean the serpentine belt ?

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Old 03-01-2024 | 03:51 PM
  #1135  
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Oh , timing chain tensioners. That doesn't look so easy to access.
Old 03-01-2024 | 05:11 PM
  #1136  
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Originally Posted by BDC90
Oh , timing chain tensioners. That doesn't look so easy to access.
How many miles are your tensioners?

If you have a 3000PSI GDI, ypu want good tensioners.
Without HPFP it impacts cam timings, not fuel mixture.

The improved oil pressure all lucky MOD guys have helps offset natural leakage to have stiff Tensioners + VVT near 750rpm. Without MOD Oil mixed with air is like chewing gum compresible up to 1600.RPM.


THIS MOD PROVES that limited pressure impacts the basic timing of these engines.

Once the above truth is cristal clear for us then every step for better oil delivery is a wins improvements. Translated as follows :
good chain TENSIONERS + good OIL viscosity.

Engine without HPFP have less stress on bank1 tensioner oil.

Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-01-2024 at 06:44 PM.
Old 03-01-2024 | 05:13 PM
  #1137  
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61k miles on car.
Old 03-01-2024 | 06:36 PM
  #1138  
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
TENSIONER RULE THE ECU WORK !!!

Originally Posted by BDC90
61k miles on car.
Understanding the tensioners are not just greasy bits. They allow the engine to be perfectly timed by the mighty ECU.
When the cheap tensioners don't perfectly hold the chain slack, the timing jitter of the CPS/Cam and HPFP Valve kills exact ECU timings. This is extremely touchy to get to next improvement stage: SMOOTH TIMINGS.

> DISCOUNT....
Do you want less pain, more bang?
Do B1 tensioner only!!
B2 cams work way less. Wait on B2

> GDI Cam lobes?
- If you have HPFP on Bank1: change tensioner!
- If legacy injection do this when convenient.


The limp tensioners are USELESS MISSING without good oil to hold against lobes pushes. Good tensioners are ratcheting. Zero rattle drama.

Does that logic help you optimize your fixes?


+++ BOSCH TAILORED CYL PARAMETERS +++
You know how nothings ever perfects enough?
All cylinders are never exactly similar because of air intake, position away from pump.... our Bosch computer tailors to each cylinder mixture specifically. It uses a higher resolution flywheel to calculate timing deviations per cylinders. The last thing you want is ECU to detune too many of your cylinders.
ECU cant make up for all extreme mechanical conditions... need extra-stiff chain tensioners to hold camshafts jerkiness.

++++ FORGIVENESS .... viscosity your friend ++++

-- We are seeking nearly smooth timings ...

-- thus we are using oil pump to give us pressure... duh

-- VISCOSITY helps pressure by oil not bleeding out of TENSIONERS and VVT under HPFP torture lobes.

Meaning use viscosity to make up for tired leaky tensioners.... that's your 5mn FIX (This is just like snake oil to quiet noisy lifters).
Bump up oil to cheat a little and you'll see more smoothness!!
EASY TEST : Use a shot of honey for a couple hundreds of miles before oil swap

-- the best is NOT to have thinner oil that leak internally under working pressure. Thin oil is a freaking joke.

+++ MOD is anti-KILLER WHAT ??? ++++
Ok we've seen tensioner tend to get limp under poor conditions carefully setup... great.

Now what happens?
The tensioner forward seal is also the shaft guide. The more the shaft rams back into tensioner, the weaker seal gets.
Using low pressure gurantees this to happen sooner than later.
Meaning when you MOD oil pressure, help yourself to a B1 tensioner and viscosity to regain benefit of stiff tensioners.




Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-01-2024 at 08:04 PM.
Old 03-01-2024 | 07:51 PM
  #1139  
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AMG A45 / W176
Originally Posted by CaliBenzDriver

It's safer to unplug this time bomb clean off.
Hiho,
so by unplugging will make the solenoid open position. The solenoid are open too by broken A2701502900 ( Cable ). Why i should unplugg then?
Old 03-01-2024 | 08:11 PM
  #1140  
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
INACTION IS ACTION

Originally Posted by Lotty
Hiho,
so by unplugging will make the solenoid open position. The solenoid are open too by broken A2701502900 ( Cable ). Why i should unplugg then?
I am just worried the poor harness connection has a chance to re-energize the pump low pressure. They are known to jam on " low only" -

You're right, it maybe best not to do anything. So many cars on the road are ok. All the bad one already at the shop
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Old 03-01-2024 | 08:36 PM
  #1141  
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Originally Posted by Lotty
Hiho,
so by unplugging will make the solenoid open position. The solenoid are open too by broken A2701502900 ( Cable ). Why i should unplugg then?
The solenoid is not in the open position when the cable's status is unknown. The error code is to indicate the ECU cannot determine a closed circuit --> triggers an error. The ECU does not know if the solenoid is damaged, the cable is broken, disconnected or else. It knows it cannot activate it. For the ECU the status should be UNKNOWN.

The TSB for the error code request to do an additional check, basically to measure there is oil pressure in the engine. If there is, it advises to IGNORE the error and leave it alone.

Retrospectively, MB has taken a big chance if the error is due to say "poor internal contact" (something they cannot check unless the oil pan is removed and visually checked). Let us say that out of nowhere the contact is restored --> Time bomb becomes live and able to detonate in the future.

If the solenoid is externally unplugged, there is absolutely NO chance the solenoid activates/reconnects on its own.
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Old 03-01-2024 | 08:38 PM
  #1142  
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AMG A45 / W176
My Scanner "Prodiag" get the same info like Xentry, if i click try to open valve = 90% but voltage are still = 0%

Originally Posted by juanmor40

If the solenoid is externally unplugged, there is absolutely NO chance the solenoid activates/reconnects on its own.
Then better to unplugg

Last edited by Lotty; 03-01-2024 at 08:42 PM.
Old 03-01-2024 | 08:44 PM
  #1143  
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Originally Posted by Lotty
Hiho,
so by unplugging will make the solenoid open position. The solenoid are open too by broken A2701502900 ( Cable ). Why i should unplugg then?
Unplugging is putting the solenoid in an unpowered or default state, whether you define that as open or closed. The default state is a fail-safe state and DOES NOT restrict oil pressure artificially to 2 bar at engine speeds below 3500 rpm. As Cali said, if the wire is broken (how'd that happen?), it could momentarily touch the conducting parts again, causing the solenoid to momentarily activate. It's doubtful that the wire is completely severed.
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Old 03-01-2024 | 08:51 PM
  #1144  
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AMG A45 / W176
so now i will try to get some connectors


Last edited by Lotty; 03-01-2024 at 10:09 PM.
Old 03-01-2024 | 09:03 PM
  #1145  
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Originally Posted by CaliBenzDriver
.
As far as stored winter cars.... when you regularly start the engine wait for things to warm up then use your MOD PRIVILEGE:
Gently raise idle to 2000.RPM to squirt your cylinders all lubed up.
There's No need to go up to 3500 RPM to get oil onto your cylinder walls - what a concept
​​​​​​
Meh, mine hasn't run since late Dec. I'm not worried.
Old 03-01-2024 | 09:55 PM
  #1146  
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AMG A45 / W176
Its the same connector ?



Old 03-01-2024 | 10:45 PM
  #1147  
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https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...ml#post8918529
Old 03-02-2024 | 01:27 AM
  #1148  
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Originally Posted by kevm14
Meh, mine hasn't run since late Dec. I'm not worried.
do you have clean engine oil in your sump and a battery tender, right ??✌️

Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-02-2024 at 01:49 AM.
Old 03-02-2024 | 07:30 AM
  #1149  
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AMG A45 / W176
Originally Posted by JettaRed
Using one of these connectors, I capped off the wiring harness to protect it from water and dirt. I secured it to the lower radiator hose.

Hi Jetta,
did u use this connector once with Pins or without? Because i use the same connector + Pins in there to delete the exhaust valve without error or cel.

https://www.shadowmotor.com.tw/en/pr...de-Module.html

Last edited by Lotty; 03-02-2024 at 07:33 AM.
Old 03-02-2024 | 07:54 AM
  #1150  
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Originally Posted by Lotty
Hi Jetta,
did u use this connector once with Pins or without? Because i use the same connector + Pins in there to delete the exhaust valve without error or cel.

https://www.shadowmotor.com.tw/en/pr...de-Module.html
I used it without pins but filled the holes with Clear RTV Silicone Adhesive Sealant. That was for the engine connector. For the other wire that goes to the ECU, I plugged in a dummy solenoid to eliminate the DTC, but first sealed it off with heat shrink tubing.






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